leander Posted May 17, 2019 Report Share Posted May 17, 2019 47 minutes ago, lastword said: Yes the riders in question are Max Fricke, B.Zmarzlik and Tai Woffinden. Leaving aside the fact this new development was introduced without the presence of the defending champion the whole idea of introducing heat times as a way of giving choices of gates in the actual event is surely flawed. Just a gimmick borrowed from Formula one (where it IS beneficial to get a place on the grid) which just cannot work in speedway. How many times have we as supporters watched the best race of the night being in the slowest time? But it can because the fastest rider gets to choose which number he wants in the main meeting meaning he can avoid getting a number which, for example, gives him two rides on the trot or a number which gives him his fifth ride from a more unfavourable gate. In the days of one-off world finals and multiple qualifying rounds it was pre determined which number you had in the next round depending on where you finished in the the qualifier. Ivan Mauger would often forgo winning a qualifying round, deliberately finishing second or third in order to get a more preferable number in the next. That's not to say I'm in favour of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hawk127 Posted May 17, 2019 Report Share Posted May 17, 2019 I cannot see what the problem is. It adds another dimension and those who are forced to ride in Poland is tough luck. Why not give it a chance. It is a learning curve for everyone and for those who are not purist it adds something that can only improve the status of the GP. Yes it becomes technical re starting positions but it now seems to take on, not just the bikes or the track but tactics. My view and it is personal but it is a welcome change. Well done all involved and if it is done properly how many polish league tied riders will want to miss out on practice. Well done Polish speedway, you are spoilers for the most important competition and your self righteous view may eventually come back to bite you on you Polish arse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1 valve Posted May 17, 2019 Report Share Posted May 17, 2019 Tonight’s qualifying added something worthwhile to the GP weekend and the reward of skill/speed to determine gate positions during the main event is favourable to the random draw. That said it is a shame three riders were unavailable (not their choice) and clearly there was an advantage to those who went out first and after the mid session grading. There are most probably better ways qualifying can be formatted to create a fairer scenario but it’s s start. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trees Posted May 17, 2019 Report Share Posted May 17, 2019 How did they decide who went out at which time for the qualifying laps? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
False dawn Posted May 17, 2019 Report Share Posted May 17, 2019 I'm slightly confused (an increasing problem!). If I fathom the facts properly, Tai was "excluded" from this new qualifying procedure due to a Polish commitment (?). A bit disappointing, since this is the World Championship, after all. But he was elsewhere (for whatever reason) and he ends up in heat 4 as his first appearance. Therefore he's able to judge track conditions and the best lines etc. from heats 1-3 and gets gate 3 twice, which last year was one race worse than the best gate, gate 1. Given that "penalty" (???) I think I might take the £1000+ a point in a Polish league match. Or am I just a cynic? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
racers and royals Posted May 18, 2019 Author Report Share Posted May 18, 2019 (edited) 2 hours ago, Trees said: How did they decide who went out at which time for the qualifying laps? The free practice which happened before we joined the coverage(5pm to 6pm UK time) was also timed and the slowest rider Doyle went 1st and the fastest Kolodziej went last. 2nd slowest 2nd 2nd fastest 2nd from last etc etc Edited May 18, 2019 by racers and royals Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
racers and royals Posted May 18, 2019 Author Report Share Posted May 18, 2019 2 hours ago, False dawn said: I'm slightly confused (an increasing problem!). If I fathom the facts properly, Tai was "excluded" from this new qualifying procedure due to a Polish commitment (?). A bit disappointing, since this is the World Championship, after all. But he was elsewhere (for whatever reason) and he ends up in heat 4 as his first appearance. Therefore he's able to judge track conditions and the best lines etc. from heats 1-3 and gets gate 3 twice, which last year was one race worse than the best gate, gate 1. Given that "penalty" (???) I think I might take the £1000+ a point in a Polish league match. Or am I just a cynic? The downside of course is the first time his bike and he will be on track will be on his way to the tapes for heat 4. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
False dawn Posted May 18, 2019 Report Share Posted May 18, 2019 1 minute ago, racers and royals said: The downside of course is the first time his bike and he will be on track will be on his way to the tapes for heat 4. And the downside for Kolodziej, Doyle, Fricke and Lindback will be that their bikes will be on track for the first time tomorrow night. I quote (from many live meetings, videos, DVDs and conversations with riders) "The track is nothing like it was in practice". As the sport's leading bookie, are you telling me you're worried by anything you saw in practice? [You and I have lived long enough to know better] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chunky Posted May 18, 2019 Report Share Posted May 18, 2019 5 hours ago, False dawn said: Therefore he's able to judge track conditions and the best lines etc. from heats 1-3 and gets gate 3 twice, which last year was one race worse than the best gate, gate 1. Given that "penalty" (???) I think I might take the £1000+ a point in a Polish league match. Or am I just a cynic? Of course, it is all conjecture right now, but looking at the draw, I think Tai has actually come out of qualifying pretty well considering he was supposedly "penalised"! Going off four against Lambert, Smektala, and Lindback seems to be as good as it could get for him. As I said, it is all conjecture, but all things being equal, I would be quite happy the way things turned out if I was him... Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noodles Posted May 18, 2019 Report Share Posted May 18, 2019 5 hours ago, racers and royals said: The free practice which happened before we joined the coverage(5pm to 6pm UK time) was also timed and the slowest rider Doyle went 1st and the fastest Kolodziej went last. 2nd slowest 2nd 2nd fastest 2nd from last etc etc So the fastest man from practice is penalised for qualifying, yet the fastest man from qualifying is rewarded for the grand prix? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
racers and royals Posted May 18, 2019 Author Report Share Posted May 18, 2019 6 hours ago, False dawn said: And the downside for Kolodziej, Doyle, Fricke and Lindback will be that their bikes will be on track for the first time tomorrow night. I quote (from many live meetings, videos, DVDs and conversations with riders) "The track is nothing like it was in practice". As the sport's leading bookie, are you telling me you're worried by anything you saw in practice? [You and I have lived long enough to know better] Yes- Doyle seemed a lot more ok than i thought he would be Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
racers and royals Posted May 18, 2019 Author Report Share Posted May 18, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, Noodles said: So the fastest man from practice is penalised for qualifying, yet the fastest man from qualifying is rewarded for the grand prix? Well it is " speedway " after all No one knew how it would pan out and could be different in Krsko- however certainly the track had obviously been well prepped after free practice and i suspect most track records go in heat 1 so a reasonable guess could have been made. As TV was covering it live- and we always have to lead up to an exciting finish logically this is why they did it the way they did Edited May 18, 2019 by racers and royals Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grachan Posted May 18, 2019 Report Share Posted May 18, 2019 9 hours ago, False dawn said: I'm slightly confused (an increasing problem!). If I fathom the facts properly, Tai was "excluded" from this new qualifying procedure due to a Polish commitment (?). A bit disappointing, since this is the World Championship, after all. But he was elsewhere (for whatever reason) and he ends up in heat 4 as his first appearance. Therefore he's able to judge track conditions and the best lines etc. from heats 1-3 and gets gate 3 twice, which last year was one race worse than the best gate, gate 1. Given that "penalty" (???) I think I might take the £1000+ a point in a Polish league match. Or am I just a cynic? If Woffinden has, as you say, a good draw then it is the fault of the others for not picking that number. I enjoyed watching it. Zagar seemed to know what he was doing, taking a long straight for his first lap and then pretty much giving up, knowing he couldn't do that again. Nice to see later riders having to think a bit about what number to take. An interesting exercise, I thought. Would like to have seen riders questioned a bit more deeply on how they rode, what lines they chose and so on. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bruno Posted May 18, 2019 Report Share Posted May 18, 2019 Shouldn't the fastest in practice get first pick in the qualifying laps from first down to sixteen or whatever Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1 valve Posted May 18, 2019 Report Share Posted May 18, 2019 Given that the surface of a speedway track changes pretty quickly over a few laps there is a fair chance that those riders who go out after a track prep will gain more often than not some advantage. The purpose of the slowest from practice being first out was an an attempt to even things up but maybe this needs to be re thought so as to avoid deliberate slow laps laps. May also be worth considering grading after every four rides. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
racers and royals Posted May 18, 2019 Author Report Share Posted May 18, 2019 Krsko qualifying will be good on Friday May 31st- 6 riders missing !!!!! Woffinden Janowski Doyle NKI Zmarzlik Lambert Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adonis Posted May 18, 2019 Report Share Posted May 18, 2019 maybe they should set a minimum qualifying time , don't reach the time ,your place in the meeting is taken by a reserve , should make a few get their priorities right . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moomin man 76 Posted May 18, 2019 Report Share Posted May 18, 2019 I can see the merits, in introducing 'qualifying' on Friday, as it adds an extra element to the GP weekend with the benefit of extra television coverage. However, the concept becomes flawed, when riders are unavailable due to Polish League commitments. If the FIM/CCP were that committed to the concept of 'qualifying,' they should have made attendance mandatory with no conflicting league fixtures arranged on that evening. The riders will always opt to ride for their league clubs, due to the terms of their contracts and the relative earnings that can be made at league and GP level. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leander Posted May 18, 2019 Report Share Posted May 18, 2019 12 hours ago, False dawn said: I'm slightly confused (an increasing problem!). If I fathom the facts properly, Tai was "excluded" from this new qualifying procedure due to a Polish commitment (?). A bit disappointing, since this is the World Championship, after all. But he was elsewhere (for whatever reason) and he ends up in heat 4 as his first appearance. Therefore he's able to judge track conditions and the best lines etc. from heats 1-3 and gets gate 3 twice, which last year was one race worse than the best gate, gate 1. Given that "penalty" (???) I think I might take the £1000+ a point in a Polish league match. Or am I just a cynic? Nobody was "excluded" from qualifying. Tai, along with two others CHOSE to ride for their polish clubs in a league meeting as poland has decided to run 50% of their meetings on a friday now. Thanks, no doubt, to TV money. Tai was left with what he was given. No choice. Not his fault nobody picked No. 15. he is penalised to an extent that no. 15 has two rides in a row. Not ideal if you struggle, for whatever reason, in the first. Zmarzlik, who also missed qualifying, was drawn with No. 16 which also has two rides in a row. Make practise/qualifying compulsory? Now that would certainly put the sh*t in the pan. Polish league saying if you don't ride you are out, GP saying the same thing. Do you want to be world champion, or do you want to earn mega bucks (assuming you actually get paid) by riding in Poland. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DutchGrasstrack Posted May 18, 2019 Report Share Posted May 18, 2019 If FIM makes it mandatory then the Polish league has nothing to say. Easy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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