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US riders of the 30's


iris123

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45 minutes ago, chunky said:

Serious question, John; do you REALLY think others are "offended" by Martin's comment?

On reflection I doubt anyone really cares. It's just another of those  sadly tedious items that tend to belittle the BSF when more interesting topics are available. For all that I can see it is attracting much  interest with a Hamburg-based BSF poster.

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Being me! it's more than likely I have missed the relative Post. But is there a Post which details the start and end of the racing career of Lloyd 'Sprouts' Elder? Thank you.

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18 minutes ago, gustix said:

Being me! it's more than likely I have missed the relative Post. But is there a Post which details the start and end of the racing career of Lloyd 'Sprouts' Elder? Thank you.

I haven't found anything yet - certainly not in any detail. Iris123 has done some research of his own on Sprouts, but there really isn't a huge amount of information that is readily available.

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7 hours ago, gustix said:

Being me! it's more than likely I have missed the relative Post. But is there a Post which details the start and end of the racing career of Lloyd 'Sprouts' Elder? Thank you.

Okay, a little sketchy, but...

Elder's first love was horses, and wanted to be a jockey, but at over 6', that wasn't an option. He started motorcycling, and rode on both dirt and board tracks. With Eddie Brinck and Cecil Brown, he went to Australia in 1925/26, where he made an immediate impact. He met Johnnie Hoskins, which is why he came to the UK.

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7 hours ago, gustix said:

TBH I am not sure what the comment means in the first place. I have never evader seen a copy of the Martin Rogers book so have no   idea of any preamble leading up to the remark that may have been written. My suggestion - and I make it sincerely - is that you try to buy a copy of the Martin Rogers book. The preamble there may help you in your inquiry.

As the person who made the initial post, which I came across whilst confirming that Martin knew nothing of Speedway until sent on his first assignment to Plough Lane 60 years ago, I can confirm there isn't really any preamble to his description of you.

He is simply telling us who the respective editors of "Soccer Star" and "Speedway Star" were when he started working for their publishers.

He describes Jack Rollin simply by his name, but obviously felt the embellishment of "whimsically eccentric" was required in your case. Sadly, there is no further mention of you in his tome (which I have to say is a good read and very informative of his time around (and in) the sport), though he does mention that when Paul Parish took over as Editor of Speedway Star it "took a step up market"!

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27 minutes ago, salty said:

As the person who made the initial post, which I came across whilst confirming that Martin knew nothing of Speedway until sent on his first assignment to Plough Lane 60 years ago, I can confirm there isn't really any preamble to his description of you.

He is simply telling us who the respective editors of "Soccer Star" and "Speedway Star" were when he started working for their publishers.

He describes Jack Rollin simply by his name, but obviously felt the embellishment of "whimsically eccentric" was required in your case. Sadly, there is no further mention of you in his tome (which I have to say is a good read and very informative of his time around (and in) the sport), though he does mention that when Paul Parish took over as Editor of Speedway Star it "took a step up market"!

Thank you salty. An interesting comment. After leaving Speedway Star, circa 1962 to 1970 I was at Weekly Post Newspapers in West Middlesex, firstly as sports editor  then Group Editor. From late 1970 to 1973 I was sports editor at the South London Advertiser.

From 1973 until 2013 I was at the South London Press, progressing from a subbing editor to Chief sub-editor and retired in August 1997 because of age. Within two weeks they recalled me on a part-time basis two days a week as a sub- editor.

Sports wise in that SLP era I also did coverage of Wimbledon speedway 1973 to 1991, then the Conference League era 2002-05. Also in the SLP days besides the sub-editorial work  I reported on the oval car racing at Wimbledon Stadium and dabbled in reporting on other local sports like women's football,  baseball, tennis and athletics. 

Somewhere in the preceding load of bumf hopefully I have established albeit rather confusingly that post-Speedway Star era days I had some ongoing links with speedway for many years.

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Yet again, I will attempt to redirect this thread back the original topic, if nobody has any objections? Although the dates here are not from the 1930's hopefully this will interest both Doug and John...

I didn't know too much about Sprouts Elder's exploits on non-speedway tracks, but I was intrigued by this information from Aussie in 1927.

On 12th March, 1927, Elder won the Golden Helmet at Maroubra, NSW. He rode a 4-valve Rudge at an average speed of 88 mph. Pretty impressive considering that this was his first ride on a concrete track!

He returned on 9th April, and again won the Golden Helmet, this time on an Indian. Here he beat his fellow countryman, Eddie Brinck, with both riders lapping at 97 mph, and the rest of the field were nowhere.

On this occasion, there was an additional 5-mile match race between the two Americans. Elder's bike gave up the ghost early on, and Brinck struggled to the finish line with a sick motor. Under the circumstances, Brinck refused to take the win, and suggested a rematch. This time, "Sprouts" won by inches.

Eddie Brinck's last outing before heading home was the Golden Helmet on 14th May. Spencer Stratton won the first heat, beating Brinck by half a wheel, while Elder took the second. The final was a tense affair with the lead changing hands several times, but with half a lap to go, it was Brinck who was in front. Then Elder passed him on the outside, and held on to win by a wheel to complete his hat-trick, as they crossed the line at 97 mph.

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5 hours ago, chunky said:

OKay, a little sketchy, but...

Elder's first love was horses, and wanted to be a jockey, but at over 6', that wasn't an option. He started motorcycling, and rode on both dirt and board tracks. With Eddie Brinck and Cecil Brown, he went to Australia in 1925/26, where he made an immediate impact. He met Johnnie Hoskins, which is why he came to the UK.

Not so sure on that. Could be right, but first I have found of Elder in Australia is making his debut at the Showground in December 1926, where he is mentioned as being ' a very retiring chap for an American'. The American Hall of Fame website generally has some good bio's, but I tried to access it a week or so ago and it was being rebuilt or some problem

In the summer of 1926 he was racing at Fresno in a Raisin Day meeting, but was coming 2nd best to B.Sarkegian, so wasn't even the best local rider at that time

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9 minutes ago, iris123 said:

Not so sure on that. Could be right, but first I have found of Elder in Australia is making his debut at the Showground in December 1926, where he is mentioned as being ' a very retiring chap for an American'. The American Hall of Fame website generally has some good bio's, but I tried to access it a week or so ago and it was being rebuilt or some problem

You know, I actually wondered the same thing! Maybe that should be 1926/27 instead? Thing is, perhaps he hadn't actually taken up "speedway" at that point?

The trouble with the bios on the Hall of Fame is that they aren't usually that detailed, certainly not enough for people like us! I've actually been trying tonight, to find more specifics on his non-speedway career.. 

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2 hours ago, iris123 said:

In the summer of 1926 he was racing at Fresno in a Raisin Day meeting, but was coming 2nd best to B.Sarkegian, so wasn't even the best local rider at that time

That was Bob Sarkegian, who had an Indian dealership in San Diego. He was actually a pretty accomplished rider, often being mentioned alongside such legends as Ralph Hepburn, Jim Davis, and Ray Weishaar.

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2 hours ago, chunky said:

That was Bob Sarkegian, who had an Indian dealership in San Diego. He was actually a pretty accomplished rider, often being mentioned alongside such legends as Ralph Hepburn, Jim Davis, and Ray Weishaar.

That is good. At the time they were both riding Harley’s and of course it was those 10 mile races etc not 4 lap speedway. It could well be the Harley link that took Elder to Oz as I did find a connection on the Frank Arthur thread that a Harley dealership in Oz invited riders over at first

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12 hours ago, chunky said:

You know, I actually wondered the same thing! Maybe that should be 1926/27 instead? Thing is, perhaps he hadn't actually taken up "speedway" at that point?

The trouble with the bios on the Hall of Fame is that they aren't usually that detailed, certainly not enough for people like us! I've actually been trying tonight, to find more specifics on his non-speedway career.. 

Anther piece from wiki, that I would query

In Australia Elder raced against top Australian as well as several top British and American riders who also spent the winter months racing in the Australian summer

Now I am not sure how many times Elder went to Australia, but I don't think any 'top British ' rider went there until 1929/30. Fay Taylour I think was possibly the first after speedway started in the Uk, who went after the 1928 season.By the time a lot of good British riders went, Sprouts was doing the South America trips. Not 100% on that though

But of course he did write a book which probably sets out his career in detail

https://www.amazon.com/romance-speedway-Sprouts-Elder/dp/B0010ZWMZK

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14 minutes ago, iris123 said:

Anther piece from wiki, that I would query

In Australia Elder raced against top Australian as well as several top British and American riders who also spent the winter months racing in the Australian summer

Now I am not sure how many times Elder went to Australia, but I don't think any 'top British ' rider went there until 1929/30. Fay Taylour I think was possibly the first after speedway started in the Uk, who went after the 1928 season.By the time a lot of good British riders went, Sprouts was doing the South America trips. Not 100% on that though

But of course he did write a book which probably sets out his career in detail

I agree 100%. At least there was racing in the US prior to 1928, which is why some of them went to Aussie, but I would question British riders going there.

That 1925/26 comment I made last night, when he supposedly travelled with Cecil Brown and Eddie Brinck; I haven't found - as yet - any trace of Brinck appearing there that early, and the earliest mention I have of Brown is 1926.

Yeah, I would LOVE to get a copy of "The Romance of the Speedway", but even if I can find one, it won't be cheap...

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8 hours ago, iris123 said:

That is good. At the time they were both riding Harley’s and of course it was those 10 mile races etc not 4 lap speedway. It could well be the Harley link that took Elder to Oz as I did find a connection on the Frank Arthur thread that a Harley dealership in Oz invited riders over at first

This is interesting though, as it shows Elder in Australia in 1927 using and wearing Indian Motorcycle gear

https://www.gettyimages.ch/detail/nachrichtenfoto/american-speedway-racer-sprouts-elders-at-the-nachrichtenfoto/539491723

and an early pic ?

https://www.gettyimages.de/detail/nachrichtenfoto/lloyd-sprouts-elder-is-considered-one-of-the-fathers-nachrichtenfoto/156317547

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9 minutes ago, chunky said:

I agree 100%. At least there was racing in the US prior to 1928, which is why some of them went to Aussie, but I would question British riders going there.

That 1925/26 comment I made last night, when he supposedly travelled with Cecil Brown and Eddie Brinck; I haven't found - as yet - any trace of Brinck appearing there that early, and the earliest mention I have of Brown is 1926.

Yeah, I would LOVE to get a copy of "The Romance of the Speedway", but even if I can find one, it won't be cheap...

A cool $948-05 on Amazon! Better hurry as there is only one available ;)

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10 minutes ago, steve roberts said:

A cool $948-05 on Amazon! Better hurry as there is only one available ;)

Yeah, I mean an AFFORDABLE one, Steve!

Strange thing is, I have an extensive book collection, mostly non-fiction. I was looking for a copy of Sir Thomas Beecham's autobiography, "A Mingled Chime". The cheapest I could find on Amazon was $80; I found a number elsewhere (various sites) that were less than $10! I ended up paying $8.

I did find a copy of Elder's book (no longer available) for $60. Even if I can find one for $200-300, that is very manageable - and a helluva lot cheaper than forking out a grand!

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27 minutes ago, iris123 said:

As I said earlier, he won his first Golden Helmet on a Rudge, and the next two on an Indian. We also know he rode a Harley...

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12 minutes ago, chunky said:

Yeah, I mean an AFFORDABLE one, Steve!

Strange thing is, I have an extensive book collection, mostly non-fiction. I was looking for a copy of Sir Thomas Beecham's autobiography, "A Mingled Chime". The cheapest I could find on Amazon was $80; I found a number elsewhere (various sites) that were less than $10! I ended up paying $8.

I did find a copy of Elder's book (no longer available) for $60. Even if I can find one for $200-300, that is very manageable - and a helluva lot cheaper than forking out a grand!

I would dearly like to own a first edition of  "On the Origin of Species" but seeing that one was sold at auction for £162,950 I may well have to set my ambitions somewhat lower!

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5 minutes ago, steve roberts said:

I would dearly like to own a first edition of  "On the Origin of Species" but seeing that one was sold at auction for £162,950 I may well have to set my ambitions somewhat lower!

Um, I think it's the trains or the book!

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