moxey63 Posted February 6, 2019 Author Report Share Posted February 6, 2019 (edited) 13 hours ago, Grand Central said: By bringing in Paul and Max, John Perrin made the sort of changes that in the modern day Matt Ford makes to win league titles. Their impact on the team was tremendous, and not just on track in terms of the points they produced at 7 and 8. Without them the Aces would have never been within touching distance of Wolves come that fateful night even with all their misfortunes. The Northern junior grass track alumni of Joe, Stoney, Paul and Max had quite an effect on galvanizing them into a real 'team' and on the night itself it was critical. The truth is that the pressure on the riders that night was quite enormous and sadly Steven Morris and John Wainwright succumbed to it badly ... Whilst their counterparts Paul and Max thrived on the atmosphere, outscorng them hugely. PS.. Shawn Moran was the captain in 93. Max Schofield was captain for the second half of 1995. 4 Schofield and Smith were brought in mid-season at a time Belle Vue hadn't won on its travels - 12 matches, 12 straight defeats. Usually, any side that has come that far without winning on the road would surely have been also-rans - based on a normal league system and not the Play-Offs, in which just a top-four spot sufficient to begin with. In 1993, Belle Vue had won all 12 home matches and it wasn't until Ipswich on August 12 they picked up anything on the road. Usually such a dormant start - in round-robin matches and excluding the Play-Offs, which Matt Ford's club manipulates within an inch of preciseness - that's form of a mid-table side. At the end of August, Belle Vue were 13 points adrift of Wolves. When you remember, also, the third place point that Wolves’ reserve Stephen Morris thought he had picked up after crossing the line against the Aces, and then taken away as he had fallen earlier and gained outside assistance from a member of the track staff, would have given Wolves a draw - and the title! Edited February 6, 2019 by moxey63 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BWitcher Posted February 6, 2019 Report Share Posted February 6, 2019 4 hours ago, Grand Central said: Oh no i didn't miss your point. I just considered it and, upon reflection, disagreed with it. Which shows you have absolutely no idea about the topic discussed. Indeed the points you made only further highlighted and boosted the point I made. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grand Central Posted February 6, 2019 Report Share Posted February 6, 2019 As I have said before October 25, 1993 ... Best night of my Speedway watching life. Somehow, after reading this topic, it feels all the sweeter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BWitcher Posted February 6, 2019 Report Share Posted February 6, 2019 24 minutes ago, Grand Central said: As I have said before October 25, 1993 ... Best night of my Speedway watching life. Somehow, after reading this topic, it feels all the sweeter. Never up for discussion, it was an amazing night and as a Belle Vue fan would have been unbelievable. Doesn't change the facts you are wrong about the impact Ermolenko not being there had. Note.. it wasn't even just he was injured, it was he was not there, lying in a hospital bed. Belle Vue took advantage and rose to the occasion. There are no sour grapes here like you are trying to insinuate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lucifer sam Posted February 6, 2019 Report Share Posted February 6, 2019 (edited) Great thread. BWitcher being a sore loser - and then denying being a sore loser. PS Wolves '93 are one of the most unfortunate teams in terms of missing out on a league title. I would also suggest Belle Vue '78 and Harringay '53. Edited February 6, 2019 by lucifer sam 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moxey63 Posted February 6, 2019 Author Report Share Posted February 6, 2019 (edited) I think Wolves are the unluckiest because they got as far as the last race before being denied, and after all that s**t they'd endured. Of the top of my head, I'd plump for Reading in 2006 as next because they lost to Peterborough in the Play-Off Final and didn't fall into a position to use double points, whereas Peterborough won the Final and benefitted enormously from the Golden Double. Edited February 6, 2019 by moxey63 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BWitcher Posted February 6, 2019 Report Share Posted February 6, 2019 56 minutes ago, lucifer sam said: Great thread. BWitcher being a sore loser - and then denying being a sore loser. PS Wolves '93 are one of the most unfortunate teams in terms of missing out on a league title. I would also suggest Belle Vue '78 and Harringay '53. Where have I been a sore loser? It wasn't meant to be for Wolves that season. Belle Vue scored the most pts and won the league. Simples. All I have done is agreed with Moxey and stated that above and beyond the injuries the absence of Ermolenko for that meeting was a major factor. Just as the absence of Nielsen would have been had Oxford had a match of similar importance and scale. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikebv Posted February 6, 2019 Report Share Posted February 6, 2019 2 hours ago, Grand Central said: As I have said before October 25, 1993 ... Best night of my Speedway watching life. Somehow, after reading this topic, it feels all the sweeter. On the way out one particularly peed off/slapped arse Wolves fan who has been gobbing off all night after virtually every heat when victory had seemed a formality, said something of the sort of "Yowve unli wun it boi wun point, an if weed av ad Sammoi yowd err not wun it"!!.. We replied laughing.. "Yeh!, we know!!!" As we walked past we then asked the people running the 'megastore' if they had any 'Wolves 93 Champions' car stickers... They were not very friendly in reply..... Although that could have been down to the big stack of brown boxes piled up behind them.... Boxes full of what we will never know...! What a night, truly it compares for me with United winning the title in 93 after 26 years, and Barca 99... Pity you couldn't bottle it and produce the same crowds and drama today.. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BWitcher Posted February 6, 2019 Report Share Posted February 6, 2019 Exactly, Belle Vue won, you don't feel anything less about the victory because the other side had injuries/bad luck or whatever it might be and rightfully so. That's sport.. the ecstasy of victory, the agony of defeat. Wolves lost that night, but I'm so glad I was there to experience it. This is why I enjoy the play-offs so much, it's the closest thing to replicating it. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikebv Posted February 6, 2019 Report Share Posted February 6, 2019 10 minutes ago, BWitcher said: Exactly, Belle Vue won, you don't feel anything less about the victory because the other side had injuries/bad luck or whatever it might be and rightfully so. That's sport.. the ecstasy of victory, the agony of defeat. Wolves lost that night, but I'm so glad I was there to experience it. This is why I enjoy the play-offs so much, it's the closest thing to replicating it. The difference now though BW is that Wolves would run with three or four guests (all small track ringers) and RR for their missing riders rather than do what they did in 93 and have to reshuffle their team through signings... Meaning the same 'play off' nowadays would be another contrived farce.. Henka guested that night and therefore it could be argued that this was 'contrived', but for me as his presence had no bearing on his own team's chances of the League it seemed 'fair enough'... Maybe calling him a 'short term loan' signing would have been more professional than calling him a 'guest', however him being there (on a very good incentive too I believe) meant two very even teams on display... When Speedway is done that well you do have to wonder why they don't try and do it more often.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lucifer sam Posted February 6, 2019 Report Share Posted February 6, 2019 49 minutes ago, BWitcher said: Where have I been a sore loser? It wasn't meant to be for Wolves that season. Belle Vue scored the most pts and won the league. Simples. All I have done is agreed with Moxey and stated that above and beyond the injuries the absence of Ermolenko for that meeting was a major factor. Just as the absence of Nielsen would have been had Oxford had a match of similar importance and scale. It was your initial reluctance to place any praise at all on Belle Vue, and put it all down to Wolves' injury crisis. On balance, it's always a combination of the two. As others have said and I've agreed with, Wolves were very unlucky. But, at the same time, Belle Vue made some inspirational team changes, and came from nowhere to the league title. On the night in question, their riders showed the greater steel, while one or two of the younger Wolves bowed to the sheer pressure of the occasion. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lucifer sam Posted February 6, 2019 Report Share Posted February 6, 2019 1 hour ago, moxey63 said: I think Wolves are the unluckiest because they got as far as the last race before being denied, and after all that s**t they'd endured. Of the top of my head, I'd plump for Reading in 2006 as next because they lost to Peterborough in the Play-Off Final and didn't fall into a position to use double points, whereas Peterborough won the Final and benefitted enormously from the Golden Double. But Peterborough headed the league table, heading into the play-offs. Were Reading that unlucky, when they failed to top the league table and subsequently also lost the play-off final? After all, if the second leg was at Smallmead, it could be argued that it may have panned out differently and Racers snatched the verdict. Having the second leg at home can be a big advantage in a tight situation - and Racers didn't win that right. I'd plump for Poole 2010 instead, who headed the table by a mile, but then lost to Coventry in the play-off final. To me, they were more unfortunate, although that's not denying Coventry, by far the better team in the play-off final. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moxey63 Posted February 6, 2019 Author Report Share Posted February 6, 2019 (edited) 16 minutes ago, lucifer sam said: But Peterborough headed the league table, heading into the play-offs. Were Reading that unlucky, when they failed to top the league table and subsequently also lost the play-off final? After all, if the second leg was at Smallmead, it could be argued that it may have panned out differently and Racers snatched the verdict. Having the second leg at home can be a big advantage in a tight situation - and Racers didn't win that right. I'd plump for Poole 2010 instead, who headed the table by a mile, but then lost to Coventry in the play-off final. To me, they were more unfortunate, although that's not denying Coventry, by far the better team in the play-off final. Just race-points separated Reading and Peterborough that season, it was that close in the table. Peterborough gained nine points over the two legs through the double points rule, whereas Reading had opened up a lead to enable Panthers to do this. It made good speedway on SKY, but the Racers played a foolish game by actually trying to open up leads in the two legs. And it backfired, as Peterborough and their nine double-bubble points won by a point on aggregate. If you base your argument on Peterborough topping the table and being the best team, then why do we have the Play-Offs? And the second leg was at Peterborough. Edited February 6, 2019 by moxey63 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CountyGround Posted February 6, 2019 Report Share Posted February 6, 2019 Mildenhall 2018 fantastic results for such a young team until injuries hit! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BWitcher Posted February 6, 2019 Report Share Posted February 6, 2019 1 hour ago, lucifer sam said: It was your initial reluctance to place any praise at all on Belle Vue, and put it all down to Wolves' injury crisis. On balance, it's always a combination of the two. As others have said and I've agreed with, Wolves were very unlucky. But, at the same time, Belle Vue made some inspirational team changes, and came from nowhere to the league title. On the night in question, their riders showed the greater steel, while one or two of the younger Wolves bowed to the sheer pressure of the occasion. Perhaps because the thread wasn't about praising Belle Vue, it was about "Most unfortunate team", to which I added further information to Moxey's post. The thread only went a bit silly when Grand Central tried to make the ridiculous assertion that the absence of Ermolenko didn't mean anything. It meant everything, as the collapse of the Wolves lower end showed. That's not a knock on Belle Vue, quite the opposite, it's stating that certain Wolves riders couldn't rise to the occasion without the presence of their talismanic captain... whereas Belle Vue did. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moxey63 Posted February 6, 2019 Author Report Share Posted February 6, 2019 The result would have been different with Ermolenko. Just my opinion, but I felt he would have brought extra from the lesser light in Wolves' team. I had seen him, his determination, a week or so earlier at Belle Vue when he fell, was a distance behind the rest, but got up and still managed to claw back second place. He was in a class of his own at the time. He would have got a maximum against BV. This, added to Wolves' other misfortune, would have deservedly seen them crowned Champions. And we'd never have had that last night if things had gone to plan for the Midlanders. It was a cracking occasion. But Wolves had so much bad luck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ovalman Posted February 9, 2019 Report Share Posted February 9, 2019 Most unfortunate team Wolves in 2017 Grand Final, Lindgren and Thorsell out injured but Swindon cocked up the first leg, but won final by one point at Monmore..Harris poor guest, same as 2012 when Poole lost out, with Ward out., the title going to the rip roaring Rockin Robins from Wiltshire. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guitar_art Posted February 20, 2019 Report Share Posted February 20, 2019 In 2008 Birmingham had a team that was many peoples pick to walk the premier league. With the likes of Kyle Legault, Adam Roynon, Phil Morris, Jason Lyons I think that was a reasonable prediction. However 13 injuries in that season put paid to that and the team (from memory) finished one of the bottom. Not a lot of luck there. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevebrum Posted February 20, 2019 Report Share Posted February 20, 2019 On 2/9/2019 at 2:59 PM, auntie doris said: Most unfortunate team Wolves in 2017 Grand Final, Lindgren and Thorsell out injured but Swindon cocked up the first leg, but won final by one point at Monmore..Harris poor guest, same as 2012 when Poole lost out, with Ward out., the title going to the rip roaring Rockin Robins from Wiltshire. That would be my pick too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BWitcher Posted February 20, 2019 Report Share Posted February 20, 2019 1 hour ago, stevebrum said: That would be my pick too. Doesn't come remotely close to 1993. Not even in the same conversation. Indeed you could say Wolves were lucky to even be in the final, the Lindgren/Bjerre incident at Belle Vue could have gone either way exclusion wise. Wolves didn't finish top of the league either. The circumstances of 1993 will never be repeated. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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