Buxton - epitomy of NL racing?

[East End Fan]

Interesting thought...Both Eastbourne and Birmingham have moved upward into the Championship League.  Would they have

stayed in the National League if the points limit had been sensible ?   Maybe that was the motive of the BSPA for making such

a low average ?  Does anyone have any clue about such thoughts?

[raddog]

21 hours ago, Halifaxtiger said:

That's my understanding of it.

It is an indictment of the BSPA that they have forced a decision on the NL against the wishes of everyone in that league, a league in which they have no financial stake.

What's worse, its entirely possible that that decision was made for their own selfish interests.

 

Its almost like they want to kill off the NL or at least make it so watered down that punters will have to go to watch CL or Prem league for a decent meeting ....   who benefits then ??  Thats right , the promotors who implemented this rule ... 

[gazzac]

19 hours ago, East End Fan said:

Interesting thought...Both Eastbourne and Birmingham have moved upward into the Championship League.  Would they have

stayed in the National League if the points limit had been sensible ?   Maybe that was the motive of the BSPA for making such

a low average ?  Does anyone have any clue about such thoughts?

Think you could be right, if it had been 40+ think both maybe would have stayed. Think it's sad really that we may have seen the pinnacle of the NL in terms of development, but I don't  want open up that argument again, just feel as usual a low points limit can only do harm.

Edited December 15, 2018 by gazzac

[bruno]

I get why they've done it to make the nl a proper development league. However you can't then have the riders expecting to be full professionals  and pay out bonkers money. Similarly you can't expect fans to pay out £12/£13 to watch it. For me next year somethings got to give. After watching the Wolves again this year home and away i reckon I will carry on with that and obviously watch us but give away meetings a miss for both teams. A shame because I enjoy the away days out but the pennies only go so far

[East End Fan]

1 hour ago, bruno said:

I get why they've done it to make the nl a proper development league. However you can't then have the riders expecting to be full professionals  and pay out bonkers money. Similarly you can't expect fans to pay out £12/£13 to watch it. For me next year somethings got to give. After watching the Wolves again this year home and away i reckon I will carry on with that and obviously watch us but give away meetings a miss for both teams. A shame because I enjoy the away days out but the pennies only go so far

Well...if the rumours which have been around ever since Cradley re-appeared at Monmore Green , The Heathens pay more money to their

National League riders than any other club...ie  "bonkers money".  Move out of the Glass House.

[bruno]

How the hell have i any control over what the Heathens pay, I said the riders shouldn't be paid to be professional in the nl. That includes ALL riders including the Heathens

[Halifaxtiger]

On ‎12‎/‎14‎/‎2018 at 2:18 PM, adonis said:

Dissapointing to see young Jack left out , similar with Andy Mellish . with a team like like Colts being a second team . riders who are A , popular with the fans ,B, have some sort of local draw  to put as many bums onseats as possible are needed to help bring people in  , throughout the league there are riders left out who ,were I an NL promoter would be first on my shopping list , and others who have team places that I wouldn't give the time of day to .

Given that with 10 teams in 2018 promoters apparently wanted a raise in the limit, it is ridiculous that with 8 teams it is lowered and inevitably there will be riders unable to gain a team place even if they are most deserving of one.

On ‎12‎/‎14‎/‎2018 at 4:30 PM, East End Fan said:

Interesting thought...Both Eastbourne and Birmingham have moved upward into the Championship League.  Would they have

stayed in the National League if the points limit had been sensible ?   Maybe that was the motive of the BSPA for making such

a low average ?  Does anyone have any clue about such thoughts?

I think you are probably right - part of the motivation for Birmingham and Eastbourne moving up was the low points limit. It should also be remembered that the rumoured limit was to be even lower. 

My understanding is that the limit was set low to force riders up into the Championship but I believe that to be stupidly flawed. For a start, the best young riders don't need to be forced, they will do it as a matter of ambition. Secondly, it hasn't stopped NL sides from filling their line ups with 'journeyman' NL riders (Ayres, Wallinger, Perry, Wilson, Campos etc -hat isn't a criticism of the riders or the clubs, just of how the policy has failed). Finally, young riders deserving of a place are already being left out (Smith and Lawlor come to mind, but there will be others). 

Simple truth is that NL clubs did not want a reduction and the apparent motivation for it is nonsense. 

[Halifaxtiger]

16 hours ago, bruno said:

I get why they've done it to make the nl a proper development league. However you can't then have the riders expecting to be full professionals  and pay out bonkers money. Similarly you can't expect fans to pay out £12/£13 to watch it. For me next year somethings got to give. After watching the Wolves again this year home and away i reckon I will carry on with that and obviously watch us but give away meetings a miss for both teams. A shame because I enjoy the away days out but the pennies only go so far

That hasn't worked and it should have been obvious that that would be the case. In fact, we are seeing developing riders forced out and NL professionals getting places. In addition, it is entirely possible that the intention in forcing riders up was to lower costs in the Championship - in other words, the motivation was selfishness. There's a surprise 

No rider in the NL is a full time professional and as for paying silly money I would have thought that representatives of the Championship and Premiership would be the last to lecture about that. In terms of finances, I have no doubt that the NL is in better shape than either of the other leagues.

[cityrebel]

20 hours ago, raddog said:

Its almost like they want to kill off the NL or at least make it so watered down that punters will have to go to watch CL or Prem league for a decent meeting ....   who benefits then ??  Thats right , the promotors who implemented this rule ... 

Nail on the head.

[25yearfan]

First of all, very sad to see the epitomy of NL racing Buxton pull out. Understand the reasons, but sad that more couldn't have been done to keep the Hitmen in League racing from the BSPA cause afterall the place has much more scope for practice opportunities than most other tracks in the Country. I hope  the lack of League racing  there doesn't have a negative effect on its practice activities?

As for lowering the points limit, its not natural for a League reducing in numbers to have a lower points limit. Indeed a smaller League should have a higher points to account for the riders left on the shelf by the reduction of teams.

While one of the National Leagues main objectives is as a development League, you still need a certain standard  to make it viable for teams to attract a paying crowd in.

Yes there are journeymen, but these riders can help young riders and like I was touching on above, a team full of wobblers won't attract a crowd. The junior Leagues below the National League serve  the purpose of "blooding" novice riders of whom the better ones will progress higher.

Without the 3rd tier Birmingham, Eastbourne, Mildenhall, Stoke, Cradley and others in the past would of closed, and others wouldn't of contemplated opening up. So this aspect of an affordable League for tracks to come down to in hard times/new tracks to start up in shouldn't be overlooked. 

 

Edited December 16, 2018 by 25yearfan

[raddog]

I dont have an issue with teams dropping down , nobody wants to see the history of the sport lost to the ages , but whats done more damage to the NL is when some teams make it an arms race by paying 3 or maybe times more than the " 10 per point limit" and all the goodies that come with it .. 

In the end all it has done is drive the costs up so teams like Buxton et al go under because nobody wants to go n watch lesser teams get hammered by a team of riders who may have a few riders who double up n some big hitters who still want to compete .. ( im biting my lip )

Lets hope 2020 sees some sanity and common sense in the rules and to an extent the team managers who need to grow a set n play by the rules a little ( still biting my lip ) and the league can lick its wounds n rebuild and halt the decline of losing  clubs  like the past couple of years,

 

[25yearfan]

Here by lies the problem!

With the costs involved in buying equipment, maintaining them, fuel, tyres, buying transport, maintaining it and petrol and diesel costs, a rider getting 250 pounds for a NL meeting without sponsorship wouldn't see much profit!

 

The NL undoubtedly saved Birmingham, Eastbourne, Coventry and Cradley from closure/disappearing completely after losing their tracks, but the adverse effect was that these former higher League powerhouses have pushed up the rates in the NL which has in the last 2 seasons seen King's Lynn Young Stars and now Buxton withdraw because of it!

The modern era 3rd tier has always been a fine balancing act between clubs there for development and those who need to attract a viable crowd to survive, just in recent years this act has gone  up some notches. Hopefully with Birmingham and Eastbourne now in a League more natural to their size and history the NL can become more balanced. If Cradley ever get a new track (fingers crossed!) and the Kent management realise that to grow the club and prevent going stale they will have to move up at some point  then the NL might be even more balanced?  

[THE DEAN MACHINE]

3 hours ago, 25yearfan said:

Here by lies the problem!

With the costs involved in buying equipment, maintaining them, fuel, tyres, buying transport, maintaining it and petrol and diesel costs, a rider getting 250 pounds for a NL meeting without sponsorship wouldn't see much profit!

That is not a problem ,no other sport pays to learn a trade no matter what the out goings are, you’re not supposed to be making a profit at that level or even breaking even , it’s got beyond a joke, basically anyone can buy a bike and some equipment, string some laps together and now expect to be paid to do it, the league has lost the plot now and Buxton’s demise is the final nail, apart from some rider sponsorship I’m sorry to say I’m done supporting this league now 

[25yearfan]

Quite agree Dean, but on the other hand I've always taken the stance that if a track attracts a paying crowd then its only fair that the riders get a share of the gate receipts cause they are the reason why fans are paying to watch!

[Sings4Speedway]

I don't think Dean has an issue with riders getting contributions based upon points scored but no riders in the NL should be looking at turning a profit or realistically even breaking even. It should be viewed as a subsidised hobby and rewarded as such. Ride in it, enjoy it, if you get good it costs you a bit less, if you get very good you can step up to the pro leagues where you might turn a profit. 

Promoters aren't helping the cause either. Persistent calls that the costs are out of control, well get together and actually act upon it, set a sensible points value and stick to it, lure riders with the way you will treat and handle them at the club, the geographical location of the club, the atmosphere of the fans rather than just the non stop increasing of points money.  

[THE DEAN MACHINE]

16 minutes ago, Sings4Speedway said:

I don't think Dean has an issue with riders getting contributions based upon points scored but no riders in the NL should be looking at turning a profit or realistically even breaking even. It should be viewed as a subsidised hobby and rewarded as such. Ride in it, enjoy it, if you get good it costs you a bit less, if you get very good you can step up to the pro leagues where you might turn a profit. 

Promoters aren't helping the cause either. Persistent calls that the costs are out of control, well get together and actually act upon it, set a sensible points value and stick to it, lure riders with the way you will treat and handle them at the club, the geographical location of the club, the atmosphere of the fans rather than just the non stop increasing of points money.  

I don’t have with a problem with any rider riding in the NL as long as a standard pay rate is stuck to, who benifits by paying more ? As with higher leagues there is no bike control so costs spiral but we have set the stall out by paying demands and now it’s expected and quite frankly a joke, instead of a reduced points limit teams should of been made to reduce admission price so they can’t pay more, I see Judas himself has already dumped a team for more money elsewhere, is that really what fans want ?s

[Sings4Speedway]

8 minutes ago, THE DEAN MACHINE said:

I don’t have with a problem with any rider riding in the NL as long as a standard pay rate is stuck to, who benifits by paying more ? As with higher leagues there is no bike control so costs spiral but we have set the stall out by paying demands and now it’s expected and quite frankly a joke, instead of a reduced points limit teams should of been made to reduce admission price so they can’t pay more, I see Judas himself has already dumped a team for more money elsewhere, is that really what fans want ?s

Im with you on that 100%. Why cannot promotions see that by throwing money at riders it is killing the sport as a whole and making their own jobs so much harder in the long run. If they stood united, set out the money paid and that was it riders would have a choice sign or not but there would be plenty waiting to take their place. There might be a lull in standard for a couple of years, there would almost certainly be riders confused about how to maintain a bike rather than just buy new constantly but in 10 years time there would still be a NL. By crushing the less financially powerful clubs promotions are crushing themselves as with no teams the league has no value.

[wtf]

It's a real shame what has happened, but in any walk of life once you introduce human beings you introduce a tendency for greed. There will always be those who get round the system. Introduce a set rate and people will be handing out brown envelopes left right and centre. Same in Poland right now. There is the PZM agreed rate for each league and then the "top ups" When the riders aren't getting paid, they go to the PZM and the best they will get is their agreed rate. 

Personally I think anyone looking to be a full time professional in the National League only is wrong. It should be a hobby which also goes someway towards financing itself. But the league has been screwed up for some time. I remember in 2012 a reserve rider at a club "overseas" being paid twice what a number 1 rider was being paid. 

Everything gets ruined when you introduce humans

[adonis]

1 hour ago, THE DEAN MACHINE said:

I don’t have with a problem with any rider riding in the NL as long as a standard pay rate is stuck to, who benifits by paying more ? As with higher leagues there is no bike control so costs spiral but we have set the stall out by paying demands and now it’s expected and quite frankly a joke, instead of a reduced points limit teams should of been made to reduce admission price so they can’t pay more, I see Judas himself has already dumped a team for more money elsewhere, is that really what fans want ?s

This is not the first time Judas has done this , and even when he has stuck with the team he chose he only rides when he feels like it , why does he keep getting tem places ? lets start a team Dean , offer him big money m then once all the other teams are complete , say we have had a better offer so goodbye

 

[Sings4Speedway]

23 minutes ago, adonis said:

This is not the first time Judas has done this , and even when he has stuck with the team he chose he only rides when he feels like it , why does he keep getting tem places ? lets start a team Dean , offer him big money m then once all the other teams are complete , say we have had a better offer so goodbye

 

My personal highlight this week was when he was crying about the riders who have got Championship places and he hasn't.......because you are a non improving selfish chump with an ego far greater than your ability.