Barry Hearn and 'player power'

[dontforgetthefueltapsbruv]

Just caught the last couple of minutes during the mid session break of the snooker where players were asked what they wanted to change and Barry Hearn responded

Hearn was very candid and his final answer....(paraphrased)

"Snooker was in the doldrums until I took it on and why - the players had control. It isnt that way now because they dont control it now"

Anyone see any parralells?

[mikebv]

Not really to be honest...

The problem is no one is in control of Speedway..

The riders dictate due to the average system making ordinary ones more needed so overall salaries rise. And the riders need to ride 'everywhere' means they dictate when meetings take place regardless of crowd pulling potential or the credibility of it..

The Promoters then compound the issues by  having no clear vision for the Sport and often run it as a "look at me" self indulgent hobby, so allow such nonsense to pervade...

Far too easy to carry on making it up as they go along than ever have a clear plan for the future which may include some difficult choices..

Barry Hearn delivers clear direction, clear standards, clear returns for investors, sponsors and players, and clear direct leadership..

A million miles away sadly from British Speedways operating model..

[Hodgy]

6 hours ago, dontforgetthefueltapsbruv said:

Just caught the last couple of minutes during the mid session break of the snooker where players were asked what they wanted to change and Barry Hearn responded

Hearn was very candid and his final answer....(paraphrased)

"Snooker was in the doldrums until I took it on and why - the players had control. It isnt that way now because they dont control it now"

Anyone see any parralells?

Understand your thinking bruv - but Snooker is not a team sport, dictated by averages that all too often rewards poor performers more than those that have exceeded. Promoters like Hearn wouldn’t go near such a farcical situation. 

Hearn would only be interested in the World stage. GP’s are more comparable to Snooker, Its Individual and the players don’t control it. 

[dontforgetthefueltapsbruv]

2 minutes ago, Hodgy said:

Understand your thinking bruv - but Snooker is not a team sport, dictated by averages that all too often rewards poor performers more than those that have exceeded. Promoters like Hearn wouldn’t go near such a farcical situation. 

Hearn would only be interested in the World stage. GP’s are more comparable to Snooker, Its Individual and the players don’t control it. 

Agree totally about the differences and wasnt really suggesting a Hearn type figure could run speedway

It was more the reference to player control causing issues and a more centrally controlled set up being able to regenerate the sport

[Humphrey Appleby]

9 hours ago, dontforgetthefueltapsbruv said:

"Snooker was in the doldrums until I took it on and why - the players had control. It isnt that way now because they dont control it now"

Anyone see any parralells?

Not really.

Professional tennis is run by the players and is more lucrative than when it wasn't. Professional golf is largely run on similar lines successfully. 

Barry Hearn happened to chance upon a couple of (so-called) sports that have very little overheads, and where the players were paid a pittance at the time. The fact they're easy to televise allowed him to take advantage of the rise in satellite and cable television that needed a lot of relatively cheap content to fill their airtime. 

Good luck to him too, but the examples of snooker and darts are not necessarily a model or even replicable for other sports. I suspect that speedway is also something that he'd have looked at, and quickly realised that he shouldn't touch it with a bargepole... 

[Fromafar]

18 hours ago, dontforgetthefueltapsbruv said:

Just caught the last couple of minutes during the mid session break of the snooker where players were asked what they wanted to change and Barry Hearn responded

Hearn was very candid and his final answer....(paraphrased)

"Snooker was in the doldrums until I took it on and why - the players had control. It isnt that way now because they dont control it now"

Anyone see any parralells?

My thoughts are the same as yours,he is not going to be dictated  too by certain players.He knows how to run a show like him or not.

[Byker Biker]

8 hours ago, Humphrey Appleby said:

Not really.

Professional tennis is run by the players and is more lucrative than when it wasn't. Professional golf is largely run on similar lines successfully. 

Barry Hearn happened to chance upon a couple of (so-called) sports that have very little overheads, and where the players were paid a pittance at the time. The fact they're easy to televise allowed him to take advantage of the rise in satellite and cable television that needed a lot of relatively cheap content to fill their airtime. 

Good luck to him too, but the examples of snooker and darts are not necessarily a model or even replicable for other sports. I suspect that speedway is also something that he'd have looked at, and quickly realised that he shouldn't touch it with a bargepole... 

Interesting? 

I spent a day with the late Mark McCormack and we talked about tennis, the Sony rankings and other sports which he had "taken over" as a lawyer he was able to draw up player and media contracts, as an agent he could double, treble and multiply more players incomes as his representation was international. The rankings in particular allowed players all over the world to be benchmarked and of course maintain the ambition to move up.  This of course created more matched international competition and in turn more international media interest, particularly television.

For those who have never heard of Mark he was the founder and chairman of IMG - the International Media Group who coincidentally own BSI Speedway. Google him, his has a fascinating life story. Mark was a strategist who had medium and long term goals and whilst Barry Hearn is hugely successful the buck wouldn't turn fast enough or big enough for him to invest in British Speedway. If you look at the tv rolling credits at the end of many tv sports broadcasts you will see "An IMG Production" regardless of continent or country.

The interesting element for me is the global company already has Speedway in it's portfolio and the riders certainly don't dictate yet everyone's perception is that Barry Hearn could save Speedway with his "take no truck, in your face" style (It's not unusual for Barry to Bollock household names big style) and I think we're past that to the point where nobody inside the sport gives a sh!t any more. The egos are bigger than the sport and until those egos exit we're stuffed, the money clubs are chucking it all over riders again and the skint clubs are doing the same ffs! Wait until the "we'll have to go national League" Bears announce their full team and what about; the fastest trapping, tape breaking second string nailed on with a great deal at a near local club but within 48 hours welches for a 500 mile round trip North of The Border and Mr Midlands based Maori nailed on for a 40 mile round trip at a local Midlands club only to swap that for a 500 mile round trip a couple of days later!

I do believe that control and discipline set off on the slippery slope when the ACU/RAC removed the traditional Control Board replacing it with a Bureau and then changing the format of the committee to include BSPA members allowing club/personal interest into that forum too. In the past if you got a letter inviting you to the RAC Club in Pall Mall to discuss your behaviour you absolutely crapped yourself all the way there and carried embarrassment and shame all the way back, today even the FIM doesn't stir up those emotions it seems there's no mutual respect at all.

[SteveLyric2]

Barry Hearn is simply the 'Ringmaster' of a few sporting circuses involving individuals in comfortable indoor venues which are easy to televise and generate hospitality/sponsorship.

Let me know when he does anything successful with a team sport that can be weather-affected?!  His only venture into that area was Leyton Orient - and look where they are in the footie world!!

[Humphrey Appleby]

1 hour ago, Byker Biker said:

I spent a day with the late Mark McCormack and we talked about tennis, the Sony rankings and other sports which he had "taken over" as a lawyer he was able to draw up player and media contracts, as an agent he could double, treble and multiply more players incomes as his representation was international. The rankings in particular allowed players all over the world to be benchmarked and of course maintain the ambition to move up.  This of course created more matched international competition and in turn more international media interest, particularly television.

I'm familiar with the Mark McCormack and IMG's background, but I think it's arguable that he got his start in sports promotion because he was actually one of the (golf) players at that point.

Mainstream tennis professionalised quite late, and prior to that professional tennis was a marginalised sideshow with inconsistent promotion and unstable finances. The first attempts at running a proper tour were actually put together by former players, before the ATP and WTA were founded to give all professional players eventual full control of the sport.

Tennis is a very good example of a sport almost entirely run by the players, and golf substantially so. Of course, golf was one of the first professional sports and there is a long history of the players organising the tournaments they played in.

So I think the point is that a sport run by the competitors and a successful sport are not mutually exclusive things. 

1 hour ago, Byker Biker said:

For those who have never heard of Mark he was the founder and chairman of IMG - the International Media Group who coincidentally own BSI Speedway. Google him, his has a fascinating life story. Mark was a strategist who had medium and long term goals and whilst Barry Hearn is hugely successful the buck wouldn't turn fast enough or big enough for him to invest in British Speedway. If you look at the tv rolling credits at the end of many tv sports broadcasts you will see "An IMG Production" regardless of continent or country.

With a few exceptions though, IMG specialise in low budget sport as cheap fodder to fill off-peak television schedules around the world. When they tried to get into mainstream sports it didn't seem to go so well for them.

By contrast, Barry Hearn has found a couple of niches that do well for him, and largely stuck to them. 

[TonyMac]

On ‎12‎/‎9‎/‎2018 at 10:31 AM, Byker Biker said:

Interesting? 

I spent a day with the late Mark McCormack and we talked about tennis, the Sony rankings and other sports which he had "taken over" as a lawyer he was able to draw up player and media contracts, as an agent he could double, treble and multiply more players incomes as his representation was international. The rankings in particular allowed players all over the world to be benchmarked and of course maintain the ambition to move up.  This of course created more matched international competition and in turn more international media interest, particularly television.

For those who have never heard of Mark he was the founder and chairman of IMG - the International Media Group who coincidentally own BSI Speedway. Google him, his has a fascinating life story. Mark was a strategist who had medium and long term goals and whilst Barry Hearn is hugely successful the buck wouldn't turn fast enough or big enough for him to invest in British Speedway. If you look at the tv rolling credits at the end of many tv sports broadcasts you will see "An IMG Production" regardless of continent or country.

The interesting element for me is the global company already has Speedway in it's portfolio and the riders certainly don't dictate yet everyone's perception is that Barry Hearn could save Speedway with his "take no truck, in your face" style (It's not unusual for Barry to Bollock household names big style) and I think we're past that to the point where nobody inside the sport gives a sh!t any more. The egos are bigger than the sport and until those egos exit we're stuffed, the money clubs are chucking it all over riders again and the skint clubs are doing the same ffs! Wait until the "we'll have to go national League" Bears announce their full team and what about; the fastest trapping, tape breaking second string nailed on with a great deal at a near local club but within 48 hours welches for a 500 mile round trip North of The Border and Mr Midlands based Maori nailed on for a 40 mile round trip at a local Midlands club only to swap that for a 500 mile round trip a couple of days later!

I do believe that control and discipline set off on the slippery slope when the ACU/RAC removed the traditional Control Board replacing it with a Bureau and then changing the format of the committee to include BSPA members allowing club/personal interest into that forum too. In the past if you got a letter inviting you to the RAC Club in Pall Mall to discuss your behaviour you absolutely crapped yourself all the way there and carried embarrassment and shame all the way back, today even the FIM doesn't stir up those emotions it seems there's no mutual respect at all.

I watched a Leyton Orient game the other week with one of Barry Hearn's trusted right-hand men at Matchsport. who confirmed that Barry receives regular letters and emails from supporters urging him to invest in speedway, along with many other sports who could do with his backing.

But my contact made it clear that Barry would never be interested in getting involved in speedway. We didn't get into the pro's and con's of speedway. He said: "Barry hates all motorsport."

[TonyMac]

On ‎12‎/‎9‎/‎2018 at 11:35 AM, Skidder1 said:

Barry Hearn is simply the 'Ringmaster' of a few sporting circuses involving individuals in comfortable indoor venues which are easy to televise and generate hospitality/sponsorship.

Let me know when he does anything successful with a team sport that can be weather-affected?!  His only venture into that area was Leyton Orient - and look where they are in the footie world!!

To be fair, in Barry Hearn's final game at the helm of Leyton Orient, were 2-0 up in the match and again in the penalty shootout to win the League One Play-off final at Wembley in 2014 but still somehow managed to lose to Rotherham and just miss out on promotion to the second tier (Championship).

He sold Os that summer to the Italian fruitcake called Francesco Becchetti, who, two years and about 10 mainly hopeless managers later, had managed to relegate the club two divisions in back-to-back seasons.

We all wish Barry had handed over the reins to a much more suitable successor but he can't really be blamed for Bullrubbishti's near ruination of the club.

Edited December 11, 2018 by tmc

[keepturningleft]

What speedway needs is someone like Theresa May to run the sport. Someone who really knows what they are doing.

[martinmauger]

The value / power of marketting of darts and also snooker is that people can be overheard on buses, supermarket queues, etc talking about either sport and how they stayed up late to watch the final arrows / frames.  Personally I can't abide either sport.  Doubt speedway will reach that level of awareness, heck folk often still ask  "what's speedway ?" when it gets mentioned....

[orion]

On ‎12‎/‎9‎/‎2018 at 11:35 AM, Skidder1 said:

Barry Hearn is simply the 'Ringmaster' of a few sporting circuses involving individuals in comfortable indoor venues which are easy to televise and generate hospitality/sponsorship.

Let me know when he does anything successful with a team sport that can be weather-affected?!  His only venture into that area was Leyton Orient - and look where they are in the footie world!!

And look where they are now without him 

[Piotr Pyszny]

On 12/9/2018 at 11:35 AM, Skidder1 said:

Barry Hearn is simply the 'Ringmaster' of a few sporting circuses involving individuals in comfortable indoor venues which are easy to televise and generate hospitality/sponsorship.

Let me know when he does anything successful with a team sport that can be weather-affected?!  His only venture into that area was Leyton Orient - and look where they are in the footie world!!

The Rugby Football League is having talks with Matchroom at present, as Eddie Hearn confirmed in a TV interview during the recent snooker event in York. Hearn described rugby league in Britain as "on its knees". So, not in quite the same parlous state as speedway, which, as far as I can tell, is merely waiting for permission for the life support machine to be switched off.

Leyton Orient are top of the National League. In all likelihood, heading back to the Football League.

[mikebv]

Rugby League is a sport ran in many parts by lots of well meaning amateurs..

Succesful business people who have invested into 'their' clubs over time and ended up Chairmen, with many enjoying the limelight locally that being in charge brings..

Very similar in fact to the way Football was ran for decades till the mid nineties when 'outsiders' were brought it to run individual clubs by much richer owners who simply stumped up the cash but didn't want the hands on daily routine..

The tail often wags the dog when it comes to the League set up and decisions made, due to the top league being less in numbers than the rest..

There is a clear demarcation between the haves and have nots and both sections have completely different agendas, meaning concensus as to the way forwards is always fraught... 

It has a central body running the sport, but decisions made are often only delivered after already having discussions with all the clubs to gain approval, rather than a truly independent body driving the sport forwards with a clear vision which the clubs then need to adapt too.. 

It has a very 'small time' outlook, with the vested interest of individual clubs holding back any chance of the sports collective progression...

All sounds a bit familiar doesn't it?

 

[Humphrey Appleby]

7 minutes ago, mikebv said:

It has a central body running the sport, but decisions made are often only delivered after already having discussions with all the clubs to gain approval, rather than a truly independent body driving the sport forwards with a clear vision which the clubs then need to adapt too.. 

It has a very 'small time' outlook, with the vested interest of individual clubs holding back any chance of the sports collective progression...

Day-to-day administration should be independent, and it's advisable to have independent advisors with significant influence to handle specialist areas like marketing and legal matters. Ultimately though, those investing the money and running the clubs ultimately need to have a significant say in the structure and direction of the sport even if they're bad at making the right decisions.

I always think though, that Rugby League hasn't really made the progress it should have done considering the investment it's had over the last 20-odd years.

[The Dog]

Now Buster has invested in 3 teams in the top flight, I'd assume he's trying to control the riders a bit more, especially cost-wise. If he offers a rider, for example, £50 a point less than he was getting last year and the rider refuses, the rider is limited to where he can go to next seeing as he'll find the same problem at another 2 out of the 7 clubs running in the Premiership. If the clubs that Buster doesn't own are full, the rider will either have to lump it, get a job and go semi-professional or retire completely. It could be Buster owning several clubs that starts to put the squeeze on riders earnings, therefore reducing promoters out-goings and keeping clubs afloat. Buster may well be the man to 'save speedway' but at what cost? He does seem to be a man of 'do it my way or not at all'....     Anybody think along the same lines?   

[Tsunami]

On 12/13/2018 at 8:01 PM, The Dog said:

Now Buster has invested in 3 teams in the top flight, I'd assume he's trying to control the riders a bit more, especially cost-wise. If he offers a rider, for example, £50 a point less than he was getting last year and the rider refuses, the rider is limited to where he can go to next seeing as he'll find the same problem at another 2 out of the 7 clubs running in the Premiership. If the clubs that Buster doesn't own are full, the rider will either have to lump it, get a job and go semi-professional or retire completely. It could be Buster owning several clubs that starts to put the squeeze on riders earnings, therefore reducing promoters out-goings and keeping clubs afloat. Buster may well be the man to 'save speedway' but at what cost? He does seem to be a man of 'do it my way or not at all'....     Anybody think along the same lines?   

Surely that can be only good for the sport to get the wages down. It's what all fans have been clambering for in debates so top marks to Buster for trying it.

 

[The Dog]

I think it needs to be done to some extent but would it make speedway totally semi-professional and would that attract sponsorship/tv? Plus, it actually stops promoters doing a bit of promoting if they think the outgoings have gone down. On the flip-side, maybe riders do earn more than enough anyway given that not many of them seem to 'work' during the off-season.