NL AGM 2018

[Halifaxtiger]

I see Jack Smith has been told he doesn't have a place at the Colts - he says (and I don't doubt him) that it is because of the points limit.

A young, talented, developing rider who also happens to be an attraction denied a team place. Bloody ridiculous 

[cityrebel]

25 minutes ago, Halifaxtiger said:

I see Jack Smith has been told he doesn't have a place at the Colts - he says (and I don't doubt him) that it is because of the points limit.

A young, talented, developing rider who also happens to be an attraction denied a team place. Bloody ridiculous 

Lemmings jumping off a cliff springs to mind.

[Halifaxtiger]

1 minute ago, cityrebel said:

it was s jumping off a cliff springs to mind.

My problem is that I just don't understand why. There was some major imbalances in the teams in the NL last season but it was still a good product and, financially, in much better shape than the other leagues. 

Why change that ? 

[raddog]

Hope Jack can find a team place somewhere . If bv signed 2 2 pointers would he still have a spot ?   If the limit was 38 n they signed 2 3 pointers would he still be in the same predicament?  

[alkadera]

As most teams last season had 2 three pointers at reserve, dropping the minimum average to two effectively makes the limit 38 so not a lot of difference. Guess it depends on the average given to those who were three pointers in 2018.

Apologies  if anyone has alreadymade this point.

[*JJ]

49 minutes ago, raddog said:

Hope Jack can find a team place somewhere . If bv signed 2 2 pointers would he still have a spot ?   If the limit was 38 n they signed 2 3 pointers would he still be in the same predicament?  

He rode in all three leagues last season. He shouldn't have any difficulty in finding a Championship place; in any case, it is time that he left the NL behind.

[iand]

1 hour ago, alkadera said:

As most teams last season had 2 three pointers at reserve, dropping the minimum average to two effectively makes the limit 38 so not a lot of difference. Guess it depends on the average given to those who were three pointers in 2018.

Apologies  if anyone has alreadymade this point.

Does anyone know what average the likes of Leek, Sealey, Alcock, O'Keefe and Dicken start on for 2019. As far as I know all started 2018 on a 3 average and ended on 3 but completed quite a few meetings. Surely someone in authority can work out a proper average for them . For example Leek probably averaged over 2 last year, if he did and achieved 2.4, why not start him on that average. Seems the fairest way IMO.

Edited December 1, 2018 by iand

[raddog]

19 minutes ago, iand said:

Does anyone know what average the likes of Leek, Sealey, Alcock, O'Keefe and Dicken start on for 2019. As far as I know all started 2018 on a 3 average and ended on 3 but completed quite a few meetings. Surely someone in authority can work out a proper average for them . For example Leek probably averaged over 2 last year, if he did and achieved 2.4, why not start him on that average. Seems the fairest way IMO.

leek 2.8 allcock 3. okeefe 2.8 dicken 2.33

[Rob Dyer]

36 minutes ago, iand said:

Does anyone know what average the likes of Leek, Sealey, Alcock, O'Keefe and Dicken start on for 2019. As far as I know all started 2018 on a 3 average and ended on 3 but completed quite a few meetings. Surely someone in authority can work out a proper average for them . For example Leek probably averaged over 2 last year, if he did and achieved 2.4, why not start him on that average. Seems the fairest way IMO.

This might help. Just search the relevant team.

http://www.speedwaygb.co.uk/plymouth18

[Islander15]

6 hours ago, Halifaxtiger said:

I see Jack Smith has been told he doesn't have a place at the Colts - he says (and I don't doubt him) that it is because of the points limit.

A young, talented, developing rider who also happens to be an attraction denied a team place. Bloody ridiculous 

I equally don’t doubt that it’s because of the points limit but surely someone seemingly as important to Belle Vue’s long-term future as Smith can still be fitted in regardless? Plan the team around Smith, Bickley, both Woodhull’s if they want it and potentially Lawlor and see what’s left. These are the riders who genuinely might ride for the Aces and are all young and improving so will make a decent side anyway!

[iand]

1 hour ago, raddog said:

leek 2.8 allcock 3. okeefe 2.8 dicken 2.33

Seems a fair way of doing things. Sure the teams with the super 2 pointers will do well next year . 

[Argos]

Smith is not BV asset, so why train up a rider for another club,  and maybe he was to expensive 

[Byker Biker]

8 hours ago, Halifaxtiger said:

My problem is that I just don't understand why. There was some major imbalances in the teams in the NL last season but it was still a good product and, financially, in much better shape than the other leagues. 

Why change that ? 

So they can staff the top 2 leagues and fingers to the NL, the first serious attempt was to try and stop NL clubs having their own assets on the basis that these youngsters would like to progress and inevitably ride in the higher leagues, paying a fixed formula training fee to NL clubs was a compromise until some "development payments" were made to some NL clubs before some of these kids had turned a wheel. The senior clubs were investing in an "option" to secure the youngster in the fullness of time.

[screm]

Stoke start their team off with Tom Perry

[Halifaxtiger]

14 hours ago, Byker Biker said:

So they can staff the top 2 leagues 

I am not certain why that requires the NL points limit to be set at such a low level.  There are few fans of runaway doubling up, but in the case of a young rider using the Championship for experience and the NL for confidence there is likely to be much less objection - as far as I am concerned that is what doubling up is for, not so that riders can make more money from the sport. 

I'd point out that Sheffield - with a BSPA committee member in charge - prefer to use an Australian and an American than a British youngster, so any suggestion that this for the good of British Speedway and its future prospects is compromised at best. 

The other thing is that the Championship has a notorious record of dumping young British riders when they don't score points (to be fair, that has been less prevalent more recently). Thrown out of the Championship because of poor scoring and unable to ride in the NL because of their average, they'd be frozen out completely. 

Jack Smith has already been told he has no place at Belle Vue. Its been stated that Ryan Kinsley and Drew Kemp won't be at Mildenhall, and with their averages they will be lucky to get in anywhere else.  That's three promising young riders who, effectively, have been denied places in our development league. Bloody ridiculous 

I think the worst of it, though, is that it is entirely possible that this isn't the work of the NL clubs themselves (Last season there was a serious attempt to get the points limit to 40 or even 42, so I fail to appreciate why this year they would want  36). Desperate to make their product attractive enough so that they can pull in attendances to meet their expenses, it wouldn't surprise me in the slightest if they had been forced to accept a situation that stands every chance of making their precarious existence all the more difficult by unnamed outsiders - because you can bet your bottom dollar that no-one will take responsibility for this - with absolutely no stake in the NL whatsoever 

Edited December 2, 2018 by Halifaxtiger

[cityrebel]

Have Sheffields decision to move to sundays been the final nail in Buxtons coffin. Due to the close proximity of both tracks, did Buxton have a say in this.

[Halifaxtiger]

5 minutes ago, cityrebel said:

Have Sheffields decision to move to sundays been the final nail in Buxtons coffin. Due to the close proximity of both tracks, did Buxton have a say in this.

Jayne Moss does mention it as a factor.

[arnieg]

28 minutes ago, cityrebel said:

Have Sheffields decision to move to sundays been the final nail in Buxtons coffin. Due to the close proximity of both tracks, did Buxton have a say in this.

I think the decision was made several month a ago, long before any consideration of 2019 race days.

[Byker Biker]

6 hours ago, Halifaxtiger said:

I am not certain why that requires the NL points limit to be set at such a low level.  There are few fans of runaway doubling up, but in the case of a young rider using the Championship for experience and the NL for confidence there is likely to be much less objection - as far as I am concerned that is what doubling up is for, not so that riders can make more money from the sport. 

I'd point out that Sheffield - with a BSPA committee member in charge - prefer to use an Australian and an American than a British youngster, so any suggestion that this for the good of British Speedway and its future prospects is compromised at best. 

The other thing is that the Championship has a notorious record of dumping young British riders when they don't score points (to be fair, that has been less prevalent more recently). Thrown out of the Championship because of poor scoring and unable to ride in the NL because of their average, they'd be frozen out completely. 

Jack Smith has already been told he has no place at Belle Vue. Its been stated that Ryan Kinsley and Drew Kemp won't be at Mildenhall, and with their averages they will be lucky to get in anywhere else.  That's three promising young riders who, effectively, have been denied places in our development league. Bloody ridiculous 

I think the worst of it, though, is that it is entirely possible that this isn't the work of the NL clubs themselves (Last season there was a serious attempt to get the points limit to 40 or even 42, so I fail to appreciate why this year they would want  36). Desperate to make their product attractive enough so that they can pull in attendances to meet their expenses, it wouldn't surprise me in the slightest if they had been forced to accept a situation that stands every chance of making their precarious existence all the more difficult by unnamed outsiders - because you can bet your bottom dollar that no-one will take responsibility for this - with absolutely no stake in the NL whatsoever 

If you look at the medium term plan to increase the conversion rates and the natural aspirations of riders to move up creating a situation where there is no safe haven (not a good choice of words) in the NL then the reliance on overseas riders will diminish. It's not my plan but it has been mooted before when the then PL was the well paid hiding place for many riders capable of doing a job in the then EL. The compromise then was to protect their PL averages for 2 years so that if they didn't make it at the higher level they could resume where they left off in the lower league. That didn't work either and it gave some riders a taste of big money which escalated their demands to come back in the lower league.

What you have to remember with the BSPA is that the Architects are rarely the Labourers 

Edited December 2, 2018 by Byker Biker

[Gunner85]

18 hours ago, screm said:

Stoke start their team off with Tom Perry

Tom did a good job for the Colts last year.

with his job working in a bank, a Saturday home club will suit logistically 

Best of luck Tom... you are a gentleman

Edited December 2, 2018 by Gunner85