BSPA Ltd.

[Daniel Smith]

4 hours ago, Humphrey Appleby said:

"The costs to a rider's equipment is nothing to do with the promoters." - allegedly... 

It is nothing to do with the promoters but they are taking steps to FORCE the reduction in wages.

Even with this theory of standardisation, this will still see rider's walk away because they can't have it their own way. Absolutely no way would the likes of Iversen, Doyle, Holder, R.Lambert etc be interested in single manufacturing, standardised equipment so we're going to lose these guys anyway.

Sod the expense of standardisation and let it remain a free for all but reduce the rider wages.

Instead of Peter Johns use Micheal Lee - cheaper

[iwright71]

14 minutes ago, Tsunami said:

That's not true now. If the clock was introduced, the same rules as the GP would probable be adopted. Riders going the wrong way, crossing the centre green, not being ready at the tapes,   are all in the control of the rider, There is no way, under even the present rules, that a rider could use up 4 minutes after the start of the normal 2 minutes and still be allowed to be in that race. 

 

 

14 minutes ago, Tsunami said:

That's not true now. If the clock was introduced, the same rules as the GP would probable be adopted. Riders going the wrong way, crossing the centre green, not being ready at the tapes,   are all in the control of the rider, There is no way, under even the present rules, that a rider could use up 4 minutes after the start of the normal 2 minutes and still be allowed to be in that race. 

I'm just quoting the rule as it is now. " Riders have 2 minutes to enter the track, not 2 minutes to get to the tapes". When the race starts is at the discretion of how quickly a rider gets to tapes and how quickly the official  brings them to tapes. I didn't see anything from the AGM saying that those rules had changed.

Edited November 20, 2018 by iwright71

[Byker Biker]

1 hour ago, Daniel Smith said:

It is nothing to do with the promoters but they are taking steps to FORCE the reduction in wages.

Even with this theory of standardisation, this will still see rider's walk away because they can't have it their own way. Absolutely no way would the likes of Iversen, Doyle, Holder, R.Lambert etc be interested in single manufacturing, standardised equipment so we're going to lose these guys anyway.

Sod the expense of standardisation and let it remain a free for all but reduce the rider wages.

Instead of Peter Johns use Micheal Lee - cheaper

For the life of me I just can't understand why you're not the BSPA Chairman!

[Tsunami]

1 hour ago, iwright71 said:

 

 

I'm just quoting the rule as it is now. " Riders have 2 minutes to enter the track, not 2 minutes to get to the tapes". When the race starts is at the discretion of how quickly a rider gets to tapes and how quickly the official  brings them to tapes. I didn't see anything from the AGM saying that those rules had changed.

Not true. Check the rules in Section 15 Racing Rules 15.2.1 to 15'2.7. The 4 minutes is the guideline for refs to pace the meeting, so each heat should normally start about 4 minutes after the last start of the previous heat. When the riders are coming out onto the track the ref puts on the 2 minutes, and the rider has to do anything he needs to do, and be ready to race, and under the control of the Start Marshall, who will then advise the ref the race is ready to start. Read the rules properly 

[Aces51]

The Polish system of riders having 2 minutes to be ready to start the race is the best way to reduce delays and improve the flow of the meeting. I assumed that the introduction of the 2 minute clock would also see the introduction of the Polish rule. It will do nothing to stop the messing about at the gate, that irritates so many fans, if the clock only shows when riders have to be on the track. Theoretically, they have to be on track now once the 2 minutes ends and the race should normally start within 4 minutes of the previous race but that has had little or no effect on the amount of gardening.

[topaz325]

Highlighted recently different rules in different leagues and different countries silly really, we should all be running to the same rules.

[IainB]

17 hours ago, Tsunami said:

Not true. Check the rules in Section 15 Racing Rules 15.2.1 to 15'2.7. The 4 minutes is the guideline for refs to pace the meeting, so each heat should normally start about 4 minutes after the last start of the previous heat. When the riders are coming out onto the track the ref puts on the 2 minutes, and the rider has to do anything he needs to do, and be ready to race, and under the control of the Start Marshall, who will then advise the ref the race is ready to start. Read the rules properly 

By my calculations, that's 15 x 4 minutes which equals 1 hour... How the hell is it normally taking them over twice that long then?

[Tsunami]

8 minutes ago, iainb said:

By my calculations, that's 15 x 4 minutes which equals 1 hour... How the hell is it normally taking them over twice that long then?

Plus VAT and Track grading. 

[iwright71]

20 hours ago, Tsunami said:

That's not true now. If the clock was introduced, the same rules as the GP would probable be adopted. Riders going the wrong way, crossing the centre green, not being ready at the tapes,   are all in the control of the rider, There is no way, under even the present rules, that a rider could use up 4 minutes after the start of the normal 2 minutes and still be allowed to be in that race. 

Maybe you or someone else can put me straight, but I was convinced riders had 2 minutes to enter the track, not 2 minutes to be at tapes and ready to start

[Tsunami]

45 minutes ago, iwright71 said:

Maybe you or someone else can put me straight, but I was convinced riders had 2 minutes to enter the track, not 2 minutes to be at tapes and ready to start

Normally there is only one 2 minutes warning. A reasonable period of time is allowed for the changeover of riders from the previous race to the next race, and to keep to the desired pace of the meeting, a ref puts on the 2 minute warning to try and meet the 4 minutes allowance. There has to be extenuating circumstances to require more that one 2 minute warning.

[g13webb]

On ‎11‎/‎20‎/‎2018 at 2:42 PM, THE DEAN MACHINE said:

That along with the 2 min clock is good news at last 

I agree with the 2min clock to push the meetings along,  but  rather than exclude the rider who exceed the time limit, taking away the fans privilege of watching the offending rider, why not penalise him by putting him on a 15mtr handicap instead on excluding him.....    An astute Team Manager  could use the existing facility to overcome the min 3 races rule.....

[Humphrey Appleby]

Is the 2 minute clock, absence thereof, or how the 2 minute rule should be interpreted, really the most pressing issue for British speedway? 

Edited November 22, 2018 by Humphrey Appleby

[THE DEAN MACHINE]

2 hours ago, g13webb said:

I agree with the 2min clock to push the meetings along,  but  rather than exclude the rider who exceed the time limit, taking away the fans privilege of watching the offending rider, why not penalise him by putting him on a 15mtr handicap instead on excluding him.....    An astute Team Manager  could use the existing facility to overcome the min 3 races rule.....

I think the aim is to make the riders conform rather than exclude them

[Chris116]

1 hour ago, Humphrey Appleby said:

Is the 2 minute clock, absence thereof, or how the 2 minute rule should be interpreted, really the most pressing issue for British speedway? 

It may not appear to be the most pressing issue BUT if used correctly and consistently then it will help with speeding up the running of meetings. There have been a lot of complaints about the delays in running meetings and this could help. 

Back in the 60's tracks had a large team of rankers who worked between every race but without causing any delay to the meeting. The tractor did one lap, sometimes two laps, between each race, again without causing any delay. The modern way of having very few rankers and the tractor(s) appearing every three or four races causes delays and makes for a less consistent track surface so needs to be looked at. Sometimes the old ways are the best! 

[Najjer]

1 hour ago, Humphrey Appleby said:

Is the 2 minute clock, absence thereof, or how the 2 minute rule should be interpreted, really the most pressing issue for British speedway? 

One of, yes - Countless people whinge about how long it takes to complete a meeting. People get fed up up and won't come back. So if everybody starts to run meetings effeciency then that will stop alot of moans and groans.

[IainB]

3 hours ago, Humphrey Appleby said:

Is the 2 minute clock, absence thereof, or how the 2 minute rule should be interpreted, really the most pressing issue for British speedway? 

Not the most pressing... But it's easy to rectify and a quick win

[Humphrey Appleby]

1 hour ago, Najjer said:

One of, yes - Countless people whinge about how long it takes to complete a meeting. People get fed up up and won't come back. So if everybody starts to run meetings effeciency then that will stop alot of moans and groans.

Long drawn-out meetings were also one of my main bugbears, but the reality of running 15 heats with 4 minute gaps is that a meeting would be over in an hour and 15 minutes. Unless there's also consideration of the overall package such as 'first-half', 'half-time' or 'second-half' entertainment, then it's not really going to really improve the value for money. 

[woodenspoon]

Belle Vue as an example, is a large wide track, so to cover the circuit the tractor and equipment need to do four laps to redo it all, and if you have the water bowser as well it all adds time out from the actual racing.

Does anyone know who gives the OK for the tractors to come out. as sometimes it appears to be quite random.

[IainB]

27 minutes ago, Humphrey Appleby said:

Long drawn-out meetings were also one of my main bugbears, but the reality of running 15 heats with 4 minute gaps is that a meeting would be over in an hour and 15 minutes. Unless there's also consideration of the overall package such as 'first-half', 'half-time' or 'second-half' entertainment, then it's not really going to really improve the value for money. 

There should be no reason for any match to take longer than 90 minutes. Just because you're in attendance sometimes for over 2 and a half hours doesn't mean you're getting better vfm

Edited November 22, 2018 by iainb

[Humphrey Appleby]

17 minutes ago, iainb said:

Just because you're in attendance sometimes for over 2 and a half hours doesn't mean you're getting better vfm

You're absolutely not getting VFM, but I'd expect more than 15 minutes actual entertainment even if it's only spread over 90 minutes, for 17 quid.