Peterborough Panthers 2019

[foreverblue]

26 minutes ago, DC2 said:

 

No. Every year I criticise any rule or anomaly that undermines the principle of “equalisation” for team-building, whichever team it favours.

While a a 1.5 conversion rate from PL to CL may be desirable to discourage doubling down by PL riders, it does not necessarily follow that it should be applied the other way. Otherwise you could end up with CL riders starting with false averages every year in the PL and being able to double up for as long as they’re picked. Exactly what the 1.5 rate was trying to prevent.

 

That is the art of good team building to get a rider that is improving or on what is deemed a false average,  the conversion rate system has always thrown up anomalies.

[NeilWatson]

56 minutes ago, DC2 said:

 

No. Every year I criticise any rule or anomaly that undermines the principle of “equalisation” for team-building, whichever team it favours.

While a a 1.5 conversion rate from PL to CL may be desirable to discourage doubling down by PL riders, it does not necessarily follow that it should be applied the other way. Otherwise you could end up with CL riders starting with false averages every year in the PL and being able to double up for as long as they’re picked. Exactly what the 1.5 rate was trying to prevent.

 

That wouldn’t be the case under the rules as they stand, as a rider would then have current averages for both leagues so the appropriate one would apply. Lasse and Ben didn’t have a PL average for 2018 so will start 2019 on a converted CL average - Craig, Chris and Charles do have 2018 PL averages so will use those to start 2019.

[DC2]

21 minutes ago, foreverblue said:

That is the art of good team building to get a rider that is improving or on what is deemed a false average,  the conversion rate system has always thrown up anomalies.

 

It’s nothing that a bit of thought couldn’t have resolved. Bjerre and Barker etc to come back on their existing PL averages, Busk Jacobsen (like Berge) to come back in on his existing assessed PL average (5) as he has PL experience and other CL riders to step up on a realistic conversion rate.

[DC2]

Just now, NeilWatson said:

That wouldn’t be the case under the rules as they stand, as a rider would then have current averages for both leagues so the appropriate one would apply. Lasse and Ben didn’t have a PL average for 2018 so will start 2019 on a converted CL average - Craig, Chris and Charles do have 2018 PL averages so will use those to start 2019.

 

I meant CL riders who are new to the PL will start on a false average if the 1.5 rate is applied in reverse.

[DC2]

 

None of M Riss, Etheridge, T Kurtz, Wajtknecht or J B Andersson managed a 1.5 PL to CL conversion this year so why should Barker, Bjerre and Busk Jakobsen, all of whom have PL experience, or a newcomer benefit from it?

[wealdstone]

1 hour ago, DC2 said:

 

No. Every year I criticise any rule or anomaly that undermines the principle of “equalisation” for team-building, whichever team it favours.

While a a 1.5 conversion rate from PL to CL may be desirable to discourage doubling down by PL riders, it does not necessarily follow that it should be applied the other way. Otherwise you could end up with CL riders starting with false averages every year in the PL and being able to double up for as long as they’re picked. Exactly what the 1.5 rate was trying to prevent.

 

All are equal but some are more equal than others

[MattK]

11 minutes ago, DC2 said:

 

None of M Riss, Etheridge, T Kurtz, Wajtknecht or J B Andersson managed a 1.5 PL to CL conversion this year so why should Barker, Bjerre and Busk Jakobsen, all of whom have PL experience, or a newcomer benefit from it?

Because Riss, Etheridge, Todd Kurtz, Wajtknecht and JB Andersen all rode in the Premiership in 2018. You may disagree with the rule, but it is there in black and white for all to see and being applied consistently (as far as I can tell).

[foreverblue]

27 minutes ago, DC2 said:

 

It’s nothing that a bit of thought couldn’t have resolved. Bjerre and Barker etc to come back on their existing PL averages, Busk Jacobsen (like Berge) to come back in on his existing assessed PL average (5) as he has PL experience and other CL riders to step up on a realistic conversion rate.

Why should a rider revert to an assessed average when he already has an official average in the CL.

[Daniel Smith]

47 minutes ago, NeilWatson said:

That wouldn’t be the case under the rules as they stand, as a rider would then have current averages for both leagues so the appropriate one would apply. Lasse and Ben didn’t have a PL average for 2018 so will start 2019 on a converted CL average - Craig, Chris and Charles do have 2018 PL averages so will use those to start 2019.

You know the averages given to Bjerre and Barker are pathetically wrong.

They both have established averages from 2017 and should be on those, in the same way any other rider that doesn't double up. When rider's miss a season or 2 they maintain their average when they come back. This should be the same for doubling up rider's, especially as they've only missed the top league for 1 year.

You know how lucky you are having those 2 in the side and you know it. Not having a pop at you or Peterborough who have assembled a cracking team, but you know that ruling is wrong.

[DC2]

1 hour ago, MattK said:

Because Riss, Etheridge, Todd Kurtz, Wajtknecht and JB Andersen all rode in the Premiership in 2018. You may disagree with the rule, but it is there in black and white for all to see and being applied consistently (as far as I can tell).

 

Where is it “in black and white for all to see”?

The BSPA AGM press release mentioned only a conversion rate for PL riders wishing to double down, suggesting that it had been loaded to discourage that. 

It did not say that it applied in reverse and that consequently a number of CL riders could come up to the PL on ridiculous bargain averages.

[DC2]

1 hour ago, foreverblue said:

Why should a rider revert to an assessed average when he already has an official average in the CL.

 

He’s had an official average in the CL for years but that didn’t stop him being given a PL assessed average.

[Sidney the robin]

1 hour ago, Daniel Smith said:

You know the averages given to Bjerre and Barker are pathetically wrong.

They both have established averages from 2017 and should be on those, in the same way any other rider that doesn't double up. When rider's miss a season or 2 they maintain their average when they come back. This should be the same for doubling up rider's, especially as they've only missed the top league for 1 year.

You know how lucky you are having those 2 in the side and you know it. Not having a pop at you or Peterborough who have assembled a cracking team, but you know that ruling is wrong.

They are decent reserves but Barker ( who i like and enjoy watching is on the wane) Bjerre never been a fan of.Saying that they do look a good partnership but there is a slight niggle  there for me that i am not convinced i  do prefer Poole reserves.

[MattK]

29 minutes ago, DC2 said:

 

Where is it “in black and white for all to see”?

The BSPA AGM press release mentioned only a conversion rate for PL riders wishing to double down, suggesting that it had been loaded to discourage that. 

It did not say that it applied in reverse and that consequently a number of CL riders could come up to the PL on ridiculous bargain averages.

The regulations (albeit for 2018) states:

"16.2.7 The most recently established MA will be used. If a rider has an established MA in both the Premiership and Championship Leagues, established in the same season, that leagues MA will apply to that league."

Therefore, Barker and Bjerre will use their CL MA as it is the most recent.

Similarly, the AGM Statement says:

"Conversion rate for 2019 will be 1.5"

The conversion rate has always worked both ways, otherwise how else do you calculate a rider with a CL average's PL converted average?

 

[crazyb]

8 hours ago, stevebrum said:

Certainly from the start of the season, end of season however is totally dependant on staying injury free and other teams strengthening up.

All about staying injury free: Panthers know all about that from last season

 

 

 

[stevebrum]

1 hour ago, crazyb said:

All about staying injury free: Panthers know all about that from last season

 

 

 

Panthers, like Kings Lynn in the top flight and Mildenhall in the NL had a injury ravaged end to the season.

I think all 3 would have won there titles if it weren’t for injuries.

[DC2]

2 hours ago, MattK said:

The regulations (albeit for 2018) states:

"16.2.7 The most recently established MA will be used. If a rider has an established MA in both the Premiership and Championship Leagues, established in the same season, that leagues MA will apply to that league."

Therefore, Barker and Bjerre will use their CL MA as it is the most recent.

Similarly, the AGM Statement says:

"Conversion rate for 2019 will be 1.5"

The conversion rate has always worked both ways, otherwise how else do you calculate a rider with a CL average's PL converted average?

 

 

Yes, all of that makes sense, but 1.5 CL to PL isn’t realistic and it will become more ridiculous as they increase it every year until it gets to 2. 

It’s a false conversion which doesn’t reflect the difference in ability between the two leagues. 

In a few years a 5 point assessed Dane will achieve 7 in the CL and then be signed on 3.5 in the PL.

[MattK]

28 minutes ago, DC2 said:

 

Yes, all of that makes sense, but 1.5 CL to PL isn’t realistic and it will become more ridiculous as they increase it every year until it gets to 2. 

It’s a false conversion which doesn’t reflect the difference in ability between the two leagues. 

In a few years a 5 point assessed Dane will achieve 7 in the CL and then be signed on 3.5 in the PL.

Isn't the idea to create a clear difference in quality between the two leagues, so that in five years time a 7-point CL rider will be equivalent to a 3.5-point PL rider? Presumably this will be achieved with low points limits for the CL in combination with an increasing conversion factor to make double-uppers less attractive. Whether this works in reality remains to be seen.

[dontforgetthefueltapsbruv]

2 minutes ago, MattK said:

Isn't the idea to create a clear difference in quality between the two leagues, so that in five years time a 7-point CL rider will be equivalent to a 3.5-point PL rider? Presumably this will be achieved with low points limits for the CL in combination with an increasing conversion factor to make double-uppers less attractive. Whether this works in reality remains to be seen.

It will only work if the multiplier is applied on up to date PL averages

Whilst riders continue in both leagues and can maintain these figures independently it will have much less impact

[DC2]

15 minutes ago, MattK said:

Isn't the idea to create a clear difference in quality between the two leagues, so that in five years time a 7-point CL rider will be equivalent to a 3.5-point PL rider? Presumably this will be achieved with low points limits for the CL in combination with an increasing conversion factor to make double-uppers less attractive. Whether this works in reality remains to be seen.

 

Didn’t Chris Holder and Tai Woffinden come in on half their lower league averages in 2008 and 2009 and win the titles for their clubs?

A 2 conversion rate might work if the top league contained GP riders, but not when it’s being dumbed down.

[PE7Panther]

6 hours ago, NeilWatson said:

That wouldn’t be the case under the rules as they stand, as a rider would then have current averages for both leagues so the appropriate one would apply. Lasse and Ben didn’t have a PL average for 2018 so will start 2019 on a converted CL average - Craig, Chris and Charles do have 2018 PL averages so will use those to start 2019.

check ... and mate!