Peterborough Panthers 2019

[wealdstone]

1 hour ago, Lukas said:

You really wanna be in the top league after the train wreck of this season..id be happy to drop back down with a new owner.

Simple answer  is yes. 

[Flappy]

Carl Johnson and Buster Chapman have both said the club will run in 2020 and lessons will be learnt.. Time will tell but top league please just with a better team and a bit of luck ;

[A ORLOV]

14 minutes ago, Flappy said:

Carl Johnson and Buster Chapman have both said the club will run in 2020 and lessons will be learnt.. Time will tell but top league please just with a better team and a bit of luck ;

But certain people often state lessons will be learnt, but they never do learn from their mistakes, it is the usual excuse for cocking up.

Edited September 16, 2019 by A ORLOV

[Crump99]

10 hours ago, Bald Bloke said:

So if you had a choice, Buster ( loosing money) or close, what would it be.For me, Buster must be mad...

Not sure of the point you're trying to make but it's not rocket science to say that there is only one answer to your question. Even if that is because the only way to get the standard that you want to watch is by being a functioning club. As for being mad, everyone else knew what Peterborough was like running at the Showground (although the EoES does appear to have been less than helpful in 2019 - whether fact or fiction only the inner circle know) and everyone knows what not to do so as not to lose the crowd. Home fixtures apart, much of the rest was self inflicted before a wheel was turned and then the bad luck that all teams get just couldn't be compensated for with a weak team. That's the way to lose money. Unfortunately it's pretty clear that the lower tier drop beckons again, never to resurface from those depths, because that's the only way not to potentially lose shedloads unless the EoES plays ball with regular weekly dates, and there's more chance of Jo Swinson saying something intelligent than that happening.

Edited September 17, 2019 by Crump99

[Method]

8 hours ago, Crump99 said:

(although the EoES does appear to have been less than helpful in 2019 - whether fact or fiction only the inner circle know)

...

unless the EoES plays ball with regular weekly dates, and there's more chance of Jo Swinson saying something intelligent than that happening.

The Showground gets an awful lot of stick from a lot of angles and I don't believe thats fair at all... they allow a dirty shale arena to sit smack bang in the middle of their events space all year round for the sake of what 20 / 30 evenings a year? - not even days, evenings... When they open the gates and deal with complaints from the local area (not just the houses at the showground, but the ortons, alwalton, wistow etc) when they run late in the evening, paying for security on the gates and around the area, they get a slice of what, 400-500 spectators? I dont know what the arangement is, but I feel pretty confident in thinking that the speedway does not make money for the showground.

Take the 4 week camping festival (actually 2 different festivals) that caused a long break in the fixtures for us - that event would have made more for the showground in 4 weeks than the speedway could make in years... but they are to be moaned at because people prefer to hold a camping exhibition in the summer? Nonsense. The showground should say "No thankyou mr big event, I cannot have you here for 4 weeks solid (not including the week before and after setting up) because we have a minority sport that needs to run 3 meetings (unless of course it rains) for 600 people... Nonsense.

If the showground did not host these types of events, there would be no showground and therefore no speedway.

I think its about time people stopped throwing mud at the people that are keeping this whole mess afloat and start looking closer to home as to why it is all falling apart.

If Peterborough Panthers pulled in a crowd of 4-5000 people, every week, then we wouldnt have to worry about dates for fixtures or whether the stadium would be there in 5 years time. The fact of the matter is that the product being offered is weaker than ever before and people just arent buying it.

Sell more tickets - have more clout. Until then, stop beating up the guys that are plugging the back end.

[IainB]

18 hours ago, Method said:

Dont take it the wrong way, im not trying to bait anyone (nor am i just an alias to cause irritation like others here).

I remember one of the "winter of discontent" meetings at the showground where we were told "we only want riders who want to ride for us", good idea IMO - more of that please!

Im kind of fed up of supporting a bunch of individuals who have no real interest in the clubs they are riding for. An unfair generalisation I know, but it is how it comes across to me.

I want to see a team built around a steady core, each year. I appreciate the whole average and team building limit side of things, but if you can retain 4/5 of your 1-7 each year then that works for me. If averages increase then they move up into the main body of the team and you just have a little less to spend on your reserves - great, go scout the development leagues and bring in some fresh talent for the experience. Invest in him / her for a few seasons and you can probably retain the bulk of your 1-7 for a few years without team building problems.

Honestly I love the idea of seeing the Jason Crumps flying around the showground - but what I want more is a team I can relate to.

And the question? To me its the obvious question that all clubs should be asking over the winter - "What will the supporters pay to see?"...

I remember the Thundercats team being unveiled around the turn of the century under the old Peter Oakes promotion to the fanfare of this is the team for the new millennium, I can't remember how many of those actually progressed into the main team within 5 years, probably only David Howe. I also remember Jason Crump and Paul Hurry starting their careers off at the same time in the reserve berths at Peterborough, one went on to become one of the best riders of his generation, the other nothing more than a capable second string at the very best. The fact is not every rider is going to "make it" and somewhere along the way promoters seem to have lost the meaning of the word loyalty in their scramble every year to make the play-offs, constantly chopping and changing riders in the hope of 2 decent attendances at the end of the year. Loyalty of course works both ways and it's no wonder riders these days have little or no affinity to the club they're riding for as they're likely to be binned off if they have a few duff meetings. Look at Ed Kennett at the weekend missing both legs of a cup final for the club he captains.

[Bagpuss]

9 hours ago, Crump99 said:

there’s more chance of Jo Swinson saying something intelligent than that happening.

To be fair to her she said yesterday that neither Boris or Steptoe are capable of running the country.

[Crump99]

2 hours ago, Method said:

The Showground gets an awful lot of stick from a lot of angles and I don't believe thats fair at all... they allow a dirty shale arena to sit smack bang in the middle of their events space all year round for the sake of what 20 / 30 evenings a year? - not even days, evenings... When they open the gates and deal with complaints from the local area (not just the houses at the showground, but the ortons, alwalton, wistow etc) when they run late in the evening, paying for security on the gates and around the area, they get a slice of what, 400-500 spectators? I dont know what the arangement is, but I feel pretty confident in thinking that the speedway does not make money for the showground.

Take the 4 week camping festival (actually 2 different festivals) that caused a long break in the fixtures for us - that event would have made more for the showground in 4 weeks than the speedway could make in years... but they are to be moaned at because people prefer to hold a camping exhibition in the summer? Nonsense. The showground should say "No thankyou mr big event, I cannot have you here for 4 weeks solid (not including the week before and after setting up) because we have a minority sport that needs to run 3 meetings (unless of course it rains) for 600 people... Nonsense.

If the showground did not host these types of events, there would be no showground and therefore no speedway.

I think its about time people stopped throwing mud at the people that are keeping this whole mess afloat and start looking closer to home as to why it is all falling apart.

If Peterborough Panthers pulled in a crowd of 4-5000 people, every week, then we wouldnt have to worry about dates for fixtures or whether the stadium would be there in 5 years time. The fact of the matter is that the product being offered is weaker than ever before and people just arent buying it.

Sell more tickets - have more clout. Until then, stop beating up the guys that are plugging the back end.

Doesn't sound like a run of the mill part-time fan so we'll leave it there. At least we agree that it's a mess.

[Crump99]

1 hour ago, Bagpuss said:

To be fair to her she said yesterday that neither Boris or Steptoe are capable of running the country.

It was quite funny though when she then said in Rik Mayall style "Hands Up Who Likes Me" and everyone quickly sat on their hands.

[Lukas]

2 hours ago, iainb said:

I remember the Thundercats team being unveiled around the turn of the century under the old Peter Oakes promotion to the fanfare of this is the team for the new millennium, I can't remember how many of those actually progressed into the main team within 5 years, probably only David Howe. I also remember Jason Crump and Paul Hurry starting their careers off at the same time in the reserve berths at Peterborough, one went on to become one of the best riders of his generation, the other nothing more than a capable second string at the very best. The fact is not every rider is going to "make it" and somewhere along the way promoters seem to have lost the meaning of the word loyalty in their scramble every year to make the play-offs, constantly chopping and changing riders in the hope of 2 decent attendances at the end of the year. Loyalty of course works both ways and it's no wonder riders these days have little or no affinity to the club they're riding for as they're likely to be binned off if they have a few duff meetings. Look at Ed Kennett at the weekend missing both legs of a cup final for the club he captains.

I also remember when we had Chris Harris and Kenneth Bjerre at reserve..but this season we got the ever reliable Bates and Garrity..I mean Cmon who's made these awful cheap decisions this season on new signings and guests??...For instance We had chance to sign Wells and Bellego but no we got Proctor and Bates. All we have heard is what bad luck we've had all season and it's all down to the lack of home meetings in August...this is bull****!...it's because we have a crap team and nothing has been done to improve it..I feel like we are just cannon fodder to keep this tinpot league alive for Busters ulterior motive.

The only form rider we have actually lost to injury was BWD.

And this so called top league is crap, How many meetings has there been compared to last season?...there is no continuity or excitement to keep the fans interested.

 Ged made it work and everyone was behind the club compared to what we have now..and he was good with the media. How many press releases have there been this season..for instance is Colin Pratt still with the club..if so what's his role?...we the fans deserve better..we pay the wages..we deserve to know what's going on rather than being lied to all the time like with the Harris and Cook situation....it's been a complete shambles from the the start.

Edited September 17, 2019 by Lukas

[waytogo28]

21 hours ago, A ORLOV said:

But certain people often state lessons will be learnt, but they never do learn from their mistakes

No lessons have been learnt with regard to How to Improve UK speedway in the last twenty years or more.

[greytiger]

11 hours ago, Lukas said:

I also remember when we had Chris Harris and Kenneth Bjerre at reserve..but this season we got the ever reliable Bates and Garrity..I mean Cmon who's made these awful cheap decisions this season on new signings and guests??...For instance We had chance to sign Wells and Bellego but no we got Proctor and Bates. All we have heard is what bad luck we've had all season and it's all down to the lack of home meetings in August...this is bull****!...it's because we have a crap team and nothing has been done to improve it..I feel like we are just cannon fodder to keep this tinpot league alive for Busters ulterior motive.

The only form rider we have actually lost to injury was BWD.

And this so called top league is crap, How many meetings has there been compared to last season?...there is no continuity or excitement to keep the fans interested.

 Ged made it work and everyone was behind the club compared to what we have now..and he was good with the media. How many press releases have there been this season..for instance is Colin Pratt still with the club..if so what's his role?...we the fans deserve better..we pay the wages..we deserve to know what's going on rather than being lied to all the time like with the Harris and Cook situation....it's been a complete shambles from the the start.

 

[greytiger]

I f  Given you know Colin Pratt,he don't give no Bull rubbish.He is the at PB promoter  The team manager is C.Johnson.The team is his  problem.  Given the length of time there was to field of time I think we can't moan.......like some do. There's been some good races some better than follow my leader in past years and I might say quite boring.

The stadium is clean and tidy.......you can go in your Sunday best,sit where you like and enjoy you're evening. Kids,dogs can also relax to their owners ownership.

The meeting is run on time mostly baring very few. 

Hey O. Looking forward to our next season of Speedway at PB. A TEAM we can be proud of . Stand By our TEAM. We love our Speedway.

Thanks to Keith Chapman we still have our Speedway no matter what the critics want to say,his heart is in the sport. 

Be behind your Team, it's not cheap to be a rider nore to be a supporter,but gowd keep the sport alive........GET INVOLVED.

[waytogo28]

8 hours ago, greytiger said:

Thanks to Keith Chapman we still have our Speedway no matter what the critics want to say,his heart is in the sport. 

Be behind your Team, it's not cheap to be a rider nore to be a supporter,but gowd keep the sport alive........GET INVOLVED.

Buster's heart personally is very likely still in speedway but his mind is disinterested in fan feedback or direct involvement ( unless they know how to kowtow ). UK speedway cannot and will not be revived under him, regardless of the number of clubs he owns. Consensus from all those passionate about speedway racing ( promoters, supporters and riders and sponsors ) is what might save UK speedway from extinction.  But Keith Chapman has never been an enthusiast of consensus - or listening to ideas and feedback even before he became the head honcho. 

Some old sayings are correct such as "leopards don't change their spots".

Edited September 18, 2019 by waytogo28
correction

[maneacat]

10 hours ago, greytiger said:

I f  Given you know Colin Pratt,he don't give no Bull rubbish.He is the at PB promoter  The team manager is C.Johnson.The team is his  problem.  Given the length of time there was to field of time I think we can't moan.......like some do. There's been some good races some better than follow my leader in past years and I might say quite boring.

The stadium is clean and tidy.......you can go in your Sunday best,sit where you like and enjoy you're evening. Kids,dogs can also relax to their owners ownership.

The meeting is run on time mostly baring very few. 

Hey O. Looking forward to our next season of Speedway at PB. A TEAM we can be proud of . Stand By our TEAM. We love our Speedway.

Thanks to Keith Chapman we still have our Speedway no matter what the critics want to say,his heart is in the sport. 

Be behind your Team, it's not cheap to be a rider nore to be a supporter,but gowd keep the sport alive........GET INVOLVED.

 

So where was Chapman last night?  Was he even there?  I don’t know but I never saw him - if he was why was he not out on the Centre Green at the end with the riders and Carl to take the Mike and offer a few words to the crowd?   GED and previous Promoters would have taken the opportunity to do so and if he had done he may start to build bridges with our fans many of whom given a choice would prefer he was as far away as possible from our Club.  I know some will not like to read that (but hey that’s life we don’t all agree) but 99%of those I spoke to last night either at the Eoes or Online share that view.   

A huge missed opportunity Buster but why am I not surprised.   

 

 

[Crump99]

51 minutes ago, maneacat said:

 

So where was Chapman last night?  Was he even there?  I don’t know but I never saw him - if he was why was he not out on the Centre Green at the end with the riders and Carl to take the Mike and offer a few words to the crowd?   GED and previous Promoters would have taken the opportunity to do so and if he had done he may start to build bridges with our fans many of whom given a choice would prefer he was as far away as possible from our Club.  I know some will not like to read that (but hey that’s life we don’t all agree) but 99%of those I spoke to last night either at the Eoes or Online share that view.   

A huge missed opportunity Buster but why am I not surprised.   

 

 

It was an end to a means though wasn't it? So his job is done. Johnson has always been the one paid (well perhaps not?) to do all of the work and take all of the blame (or at least be the public face) as was once famously said of a previous TM, so that's all very much in keeping. Interesting that Rodders says that Watson and Rathbone were there. It may be that they were there just out of interest but I'd be more inclined to think that that indicates the direction of travel?

Edited September 18, 2019 by Crump99

[Wolfie456]

51 minutes ago, maneacat said:

 

So where was Chapman last night?  Was he even there?  I don’t know but I never saw him - if he was why was he not out on the Centre Green at the end with the riders and Carl to take the Mike and offer a few words to the crowd?   GED and previous Promoters would have taken the opportunity to do so and if he had done he may start to build bridges with our fans many of whom given a choice would prefer he was as far away as possible from our Club.  I know some will not like to read that (but hey that’s life we don’t all agree) but 99%of those I spoke to last night either at the Eoes or Online share that view.   

A huge missed opportunity Buster but why am I not surprised.   

 

 

Yes cat he was there there saw him before meeting started.

[Mick Bratley]

On ‎9‎/‎17‎/‎2019 at 8:48 AM, Method said:

The Showground gets an awful lot of stick from a lot of angles and I don't believe thats fair at all... they allow a dirty shale arena to sit smack bang in the middle of their events space all year round for the sake of what 20 / 30 evenings a year? - not even days, evenings... When they open the gates and deal with complaints from the local area (not just the houses at the showground, but the ortons, alwalton, wistow etc) when they run late in the evening, paying for security on the gates and around the area, they get a slice of what, 400-500 spectators? I dont know what the arangement is, but I feel pretty confident in thinking that the speedway does not make money for the showground.

Take the 4 week camping festival (actually 2 different festivals) that caused a long break in the fixtures for us - that event would have made more for the showground in 4 weeks than the speedway could make in years... but they are to be moaned at because people prefer to hold a camping exhibition in the summer? Nonsense. The showground should say "No thankyou mr big event, I cannot have you here for 4 weeks solid (not including the week before and after setting up) because we have a minority sport that needs to run 3 meetings (unless of course it rains) for 600 people... Nonsense.

If the showground did not host these types of events, there would be no showground and therefore no speedway.

I think its about time people stopped throwing mud at the people that are keeping this whole mess afloat and start looking closer to home as to why it is all falling apart.

If Peterborough Panthers pulled in a crowd of 4-5000 people, every week, then we wouldnt have to worry about dates for fixtures or whether the stadium would be there in 5 years time. The fact of the matter is that the product being offered is weaker than ever before and people just arent buying it.

Sell more tickets - have more clout. Until then, stop beating up the guys that are plugging the back end. 

You are making a lot of assumptions in what you have said.

In recent years the hierarchy of The Showground has changed from the times when I used to deal with them a decade ago, so I can't speak about the current management team, but my assumption will be that the practicalities of running Speedway at the venue will not have changed very much, if at all.

Speedway pays significant rent to the venue. I don't know what the amount is these days, but when I was promoter it was, I felt, jaw dropping.  It is considerable over a season. The Speedway club are also not allowed to bring their own concessions (catering) on to the venue, so the Speedway clubs income is restricted to admissions and the sale of programmes only. Speedway comes a long way back in the queue of the events held at the Showground and that's only rightly so, it is a business after all - actually it's not, it's a charity.

Effectively you pay rent for the key to open and close the place, you get little or no help from them in putting the event on or clearing up after. The Showground is not a charity (actually it is, but you probably get my drift). The Speedway staff volunteers do an absolutely amazing (and thankless) job in getting the place ready for Speedway and clearing it up afterwards, it takes a monumental amount of effort and I mean monumental and these people are the real heroes of the Speedway club. The Showground does not 'plug' the back end or keep Speedway 'afloat'. They provide a key. A very expensive one at that.

The one thing Speedway does do for the Showground is provide an event for LOCAL people.  Practically every other event at the Showground is supported in the majority by people who live outside of Peterborough. Not everyone locally owns a Shire Horse, Truck or Modified Car or wants to pitch a tent a couple of miles from their home and there are only so many times you can drag yourself along to Truckfest. The 'dirty shale arena' gets plenty of use from other events, often these events damage the track and fence, which additionally costs the Speedway club to put right. If other events use the floodlights - which the Speedway club paid for and installed - and a light fuses, the Speedway club has to pay for this to be replaced as well.

[IainB]

2 hours ago, maneacat said:

99%of those I spoke to last night either at the Eoes or Online share that view.   

you spoke to 100 people?!? You didn't come and speak to me 

50 minutes ago, Mick Bratley said:

the Speedway clubs income is restricted to admissions and the sale of programmes only.

If other events use the floodlights - which the Speedway club paid for and installed - and a light fuses, the Speedway club has to pay for this to be replaced as well.

What about parking?

Why aren't the club charging for the use of floodlights if they own them?

[wealdstone]

5 minutes ago, iainb said:

you spoke to 100 people?!? You didn't come and speak to me 

What about parking?

Why aren't the club charging for the use of floodlights if they own them?

I do not think that Maneacat ever claimed to have spoken to 100  people