SpeedwayTShirts Posted March 28, 2019 Report Share Posted March 28, 2019 6 minutes ago, Wee Eck said: You’re not comparing like for like. When you buy a season ticket for a team, you know that doesn’t guarantee who will be in the team. Injuries, loss of form, or even big payments to ride in Poland can cause a rider to be missing. You are paying to see the team. The only comparison to your stack vs lasagne argument would be if you paid to see Peterborough and Kings Lynn were there instead (not to say that won’t happen!) I appreciate what you're saying mate, so to give a more specific example and this is only in my case. IF...…. Tommy Knudsen came out of retirement and signed for a team in the UK, lets say Belle Vue, I'd immediately buy a season ticket to go and watch him race. However if he didn't end up racing at all for the Aces I'd have no interest whatsoever in going. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crump99 Posted March 28, 2019 Report Share Posted March 28, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, Wee Eck said: You’re not comparing like for like. When you buy a season ticket for a team, you know that doesn’t guarantee who will be in the team. Injuries, loss of form, or even big payments to ride in Poland can cause a rider to be missing. You are paying to see the team. The only comparison to your stack vs lasagne argument would be if you paid to see Peterborough and Kings Lynn were there instead (not to say that won’t happen!) Unfortunately on the very same day that season ticket details were announced (Thursday December 20, 2018) there was also a news item saying: PANTHERS 2019 (Team subject to normal BSPA approval): Chris Harris, Hans Andersen (c), Craig Cook, Bradley Wilson-Dean, Charles Wright, Lasse Bjerre, Ben Barker. So no it doesn't guarantee but you'd expect that to be what you paid for unless there is a good clear reason why not. Edited March 28, 2019 by Crump99 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maneacat Posted March 28, 2019 Report Share Posted March 28, 2019 28 minutes ago, Crump99 said: Unfortunately on the very same day that season ticket details were announced (Thursday December 20, 2018) there was also a news item saying: PANTHERS 2019 (Team subject to normal BSPA approval): Chris Harris, Hans Andersen (c), Craig Cook, Bradley Wilson-Dean, Charles Wright, Lasse Bjerre, Ben Barker. So no it doesn't guarantee but you'd expect that to be what paid for unless there is a good clear reason why not. I think this would be a good one for Judge Rinder to rule on - and as a side note look at the free publicity the sport would get and on a mainstream TV Channel too! Ok it might well turn out to be bad publicity but according to some there is no such thing - only publicity! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Cheese Posted March 28, 2019 Report Share Posted March 28, 2019 I don't think either side come out of this too well, but to be fair to Cook there's plenty of suggestions here that he was willing to sacrifice sponsors for more points money when he hasn't said that at all. He wanted that increased when his sponsor pulled out because they couldn't advertise in the area they wanted, I don't see a problem with him asking for that but equally understand why Chapman has said no if that takes him over budget. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikebv Posted March 28, 2019 Report Share Posted March 28, 2019 (edited) All riders are self employed so, just like anyone else self employed, they should really be allowed to dictate their own terms when they take on 'a job'.. If the person booking them doesn't agree with those terms requested then they are then at liberty to look elsewhere and offer the work to someone else who is OK with the package on offer.. Likewise, if the person seeking the contract isn't happy with the T's and C's of what is expected of him, then he is free to walk away without signing the contract and taking the job.. This just once again shows how difficult it is to shoe horn an individual sport into a team framework.. It costs a lot of money to set yourself up for a season of Speedway so personal sponsorship is paramount.. But it also costs a lot of money to run a Speedway Team, so team sponsorship is also paramount.. Maybe this is a way of wrestling some of the perceived control away from the riders to help facilitate further changes and cost reductions....? "Unfortunately we cannot reach an agreement, thanks for your time, NEXT PLEASE".. And as we know, there always seems to be 'someone', from 'somewhere' to gratefully take up the vacated positions... And increasing the supply of riders willing to ride for "take it or leave it" terms can only decrease outgoings to the clubs, which in the long run probably won't be a bad thing for the sport.... Edited March 28, 2019 by mikebv 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sings4Speedway Posted March 28, 2019 Report Share Posted March 28, 2019 The above is spot on, its been long overdue that the clubs should be dictating the deals on offer and if riders choose to accept what is offered or not that is their prerogative. Riders are not bigger than clubs and Craig was clearly trying to get the club to change the policy just for him. Should he have been announced prior to a contract being signed no which is wrong from both sides but Cook has effectively allowed himself to be left out as he didn't secure a deal a P'bora have to find a late replacement. Its just another in the long line of saga's that follow CC around and will likely continue until he has upset every club or drastically re-evaluates how much he thinks he is worth. 6 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
semion Posted March 28, 2019 Report Share Posted March 28, 2019 What actually is the going rate for a GP failed rider ? Batcholar kind of numbers I guess. So Cook has Glasgow and what else on in Sweden and Poland ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TotallyHonestJohn Posted March 28, 2019 Report Share Posted March 28, 2019 1 hour ago, mikebv said: riders are self employed so, just like anyone else self employed, they should really be allowed to dictate their own terms when they take on 'a job'.. Not sure I agree Mike I employ subcontractors on a self employed basis and they wear my livery on their vans, my logos on their hard hats, my hi vis jackets with my company name on, my uniforms on their backs... they are branded up as my employees whilst they are working for me as I am paying their wages after all... Why should I be dictated to? If I didn't have the work they wouldn't have a job... of course they could always go and work for someone else but you can't have the tail wagging the dog? Or can You? Regards THJ 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve0 Posted March 28, 2019 Report Share Posted March 28, 2019 6 minutes ago, TotallyHonestJohn said: Not sure I agree Mike I employ subcontractors on a self employed basis and they wear my livery on their vans, my logos on their hard hats, my hi vis jackets with my company name on, my uniforms on their backs... they are branded up as my employees whilst they are working for me as I am paying their wages after all... Why should I be dictated to? If I didn't have the work they wouldn't have a job... of course they could always go and work for someone else but you can't have the tail wagging the dog? Or can You? Regards THJ Not exactly comparing apples with apples there - unless your business is entertainment/sport Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TotallyHonestJohn Posted March 28, 2019 Report Share Posted March 28, 2019 6 minutes ago, Steve0 said: Not exactly comparing apples with apples there - unless your business is entertainment/sport What's the difference... someone is paying their wages... I have tradesmen with 1000 of pounds worth of tools and mechanical gear what they have to buy to carry out their trade.... their day job... on my site... if they want to use that at weekends or other jobs I can't dictate what they have on it but if it's my job my contract and my customers they are branded up to advertise my business not someone else's and if they don't like the well... oh hang on that's just what's happened... Regards THJ 4 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pinny Posted March 28, 2019 Report Share Posted March 28, 2019 1 hour ago, TotallyHonestJohn said: What's the difference... someone is paying their wages... I have tradesmen with 1000 of pounds worth of tools and mechanical gear what they have to buy to carry out their trade.... their day job... on my site... if they want to use that at weekends or other jobs I can't dictate what they have on it but if it's my job my contract and my customers they are branded up to advertise my business not someone else's and if they don't like the well... oh hang on that's just what's happened... Regards THJ More fool them if they are ordered to wear your work gear if their not on your books full time. I have spent the last fifteen years as a subcontractor and a full time employee and not once got forced to wear a companys logo whilst subbying into them. Maybe different up North or times in the UK have changed now as I left five years ago of course. But if a company isnt willing to take you on the books full time, then its extremely rare to be asked to wear their hard hats/jackets/body warmers etc . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flappy Posted March 29, 2019 Author Report Share Posted March 29, 2019 So NKI or Gomolski for the 7th rider. Like chalk and cheese tbf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hans fan Posted March 29, 2019 Report Share Posted March 29, 2019 20 minutes ago, Flappy said: So NKI or Gomolski for the 7th rider. Like chalk and cheese tbf Whoever it is I'm looking forward to Monday panthers have 2 2nd strings and 2 reserves who can beat anybody round showground Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wealdstone Posted March 29, 2019 Report Share Posted March 29, 2019 Jon Armstrong would be within budget 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scoobydoo Posted March 29, 2019 Report Share Posted March 29, 2019 (edited) Might need him if no one is signed in time as dont expect you get a facility for a not signed my contract rider whos been released. Edited March 29, 2019 by scoobydoo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fromafar Posted March 29, 2019 Report Share Posted March 29, 2019 Cook needs another visit to his head shrink,he seems to think people owe him a living on his terms these days.Thats not how it works in Speedway.IMO. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bagpuss Posted March 29, 2019 Report Share Posted March 29, 2019 I think it says a lot that he appears to be the only rider out of twenty one employed by Buster tracks who has an issue with the sponsor arrangement. 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ouch Posted March 29, 2019 Report Share Posted March 29, 2019 Appearances can be deceptive. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poolebolton Posted March 29, 2019 Report Share Posted March 29, 2019 If anyone was wondering why Wright didn’t have a racesuit. He left it at home by accident. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maneacat Posted March 29, 2019 Report Share Posted March 29, 2019 47 minutes ago, Bagpuss said: I think it says a lot that he appears to be the only rider out of twenty one employed by Buster tracks who has an issue with the sponsor arrangement. Don’t believe for one minute it’s all/just about sponsors logos. More to this than we are being told AS PER USUAL! It will be Gomolski Flappy I’m sure! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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