Glasgow 2019 Onwards

[Gazc]

5 minutes ago, ragdoll64 said:

Even if Glasgow do choose to pay riders more than other teams, (not that you provide any proof, right enough)......what difference does it make to what other teams pay THEIR riders?   Ok, riders can ask for more based on what they hear Glasgow are paying, but that doesn't mean the other promoters have to pay. What are the riders going to do?....stop riding?  

What Glasgow decide to pay only affects THEIR seven riders and maybe does some team or teams out of a derived signing (or seven)

It's business in the private sector. Wages can and do vary by large margins between different employers for people expected to do the same job. 

The distain and jealousy shown on here since the takeover at Glasgow has been present since 2015 and has started to gather pace, we even have a poster quoting how we allegedly do our business.

Whilst you are 100% correct it will be ignored and the witchunt will continue from a certain few.

Better letting them vent there bile and let them push there agenda they will continue regardless.

 

[Fromafar]

47 minutes ago, allthegearbutnaeidea said:

Yeah but Glasgow have literally put a statement up very recently about losing 100’s of thousands of pounds every year and how they can’t afford to do that anymore, yet are still going about the same way of poaching riders and paying far more than other teams for middle order riders. It’s not on because it is forcing all of the other clubs to stretch their budgets due to all the riders demanding that extra £5/10 per point that is un needed and is due to the fact they know how much others are getting paid. Wage caps and cutting out greedy engine tuners are a neccessity for this sport to survive and whilst their is not teams like Glasgow will continue to ruin this good sport by making themselves and all of the other clubs go into financial ruin until they close down. I appreciate what the Facenna’s have done to the stadium and to the club but I do not appreciate what they have done to the sport at all.

And yes I do know some of the figures of riders wages from a couple of years ago at Glasgow and no I am not sharing them but yes they are completely over the top and yes they are a lot more than other similar riders were getting at other clubs that year.

If you cast your mind back to Mid 8o’s,84 I think they agreed a wage cap but Berwick( Davie Fairbairn)work round it via sponsorship( which is always the way out), but unfortunately injuries stopped Berwick winning the league.Cribb,McDermott,McMillan,McKinna did not come cheap.

[Tsunami]

1 minute ago, Gazc said:

The distain and jealousy shown on here since the takeover at Glasgow has been present since 2015 and has started to gather pace, we even have a poster quoting how we allegedly do our business.

Whilst you are 100% correct it will be ignored and the witchunt will continue from a certain few.

Better letting them vent there bile and let them push there agenda they will continue regardless.

 

I think you are overstating the reaction that you say is distain and jealousy Gaz. Most clubs/supporters would love to have the improvements in the stadium and the quality of the team that Glasgow has delivered. It upgrades the sport in general when it can be shown the bar has been raised, in the same way Belle Vue did with the National Stadium. Unfortunately Glasgows aggressive approach to being the best does have an effect of the running and the costs that other clubs pay their riders. Once a new top heatleader pay level has been reached by one club, it cascades down for all the other number 1's to ask for more money, and then the. lesser heatleaders and second strings get in on the act. Same with sign-on's. Riders can stick out for the increase and ultimately clubs have to fall in line to give their fans the team that the fans want and will support. It's rather being shortsighted/unbelievable to think one club doesn't affect the rates of pay of another club. I note on here that many fans don't really, or pretend not to, know the rates that Glasgow has paid its riders in the recent years. Other fans know probably to the pound, because it is talked about widespread in the pits and I could have given you at least three riders wages from a couple of years ago. It's not really a secret anywhere. I think the irony to the rest of us is that Glasgow is bleating about losing a lot of money(most than any other club I know about), and appealing for more volunteers and saying they can't go on like this and continue with such losses. Who caused it ?  

[mac101]

Promotors Can always  say no to any rider if it’s outwith their budget I know Glasgow knocked back a rider because of his demands  and by the sound of it  Somerset knocked back Charles Wright because they would not go over their budget and with the low team ave this year some decent riders might  miss out with their demands so there will always be another rider that will take the deal 

Edited November 21, 2018 by mac101

[Gazc]

4 minutes ago, Tsunami said:

I think you are overstating the reaction that you say is distain and jealousy Gaz. Most clubs/supporters would love to have the improvements in the stadium and the quality of the team that Glasgow has delivered. It upgrades the sport in general when it can be shown the bar has been raised, in the same way Belle Vue did with the National Stadium. Unfortunately Glasgows aggressive approach to being the best does have an effect of the running and the costs that other clubs pay their riders. Once a new top heatleader pay level has been reached by one club, it cascades down for all the other number 1's to ask for more money, and then the. lesser heatleaders and second strings get in on the act. Same with sign-on's. Riders can stick out for the increase and ultimately clubs have to fall in line to give their fans the team that the fans want and will support. It's rather being shortsighted/unbelievable to think one club doesn't affect the rates of pay of another club. I note on here that many fans don't really, or pretend not to, know the rates that Glasgow has paid its riders in the recent years. Other fans know probably to the pound, because it is talked about widespread in the pits and I could have given you at least three riders wages from a couple of years ago. It's not really a secret anywhere. I think the irony to the rest of us is that Glasgow is bleating about losing a lot of money(most than any other club I know about), and appealing for more volunteers and saying they can't go on like this and continue with such losses. Who caused it ?  

Not overstating it at all it is out there and not difficult to find.

Glasgow will always do what is best for Glasgow it is there choice but as i said our finances and accounts will be under more scrutiny this year  more than ever.

Our business model has failed but i will not fault them on trying, the model needs changed the proof on how much by will be on how we do off the track more than on it. 

[jenga]

some interesting posts on here . 

but i just would like to ask the question, if Glasgow had won the league or cup finals and the spot was full to the rafters of proper paying fans  on the finals they won .. do you think they would still have made a loss / profit on the 1/2/or 3 finals they won ?

 

[poolebolton]

27 minutes ago, jenga said:

some interesting posts on here . 

but i just would like to ask the question, if Glasgow had won the league or cup finals and the spot was full to the rafters of proper paying fans  on the finals they won .. do you think they would still have made a loss / profit on the 1/2/or 3 finals they won ?

 

Doubt they would have made back the £100k. But it might have been cut in half. They must still have some decent money if you are taking Cook again. 

Sure for buster losing to poole was upsetting but they reckon they had 5k at that final. That’s a huge amount of money to make. 

[ruffdiamond]

9 hours ago, Paulco said:

Someone offers you a job at £x and you verbally agree terms . You go home and someone else phones you and offers you £x amount more . So you call the first one and say " sorry i've changed my mind " . 

I've done that in the past and so has thousands of other people , it happens , it's life . 

But to blame Glasgow for threatening the future existance of clubs and dangering the future of speedway as a whole is hysteria bordering on paranoia . 

If a club offers to pay a rider more money than another club will , then deal with it . The only future Glasgow is threatening is possibly it's own for the gamble of being a good payer . 

Agree that, it happens, its life,,, but if you verbally agree, or sign a deal you should do your best to honour it. It makes good sense for future dealings.

Maybe riders should offer their services on e-bay, buy now or best offer. Then they can be rated by feedback

Edited November 22, 2018 by ruffdiamond

[MANSE]

27 minutes ago, ruffdiamond said:

Agree that, it happens, its life,,, but if you verbally agree, or sign a deal you should do your best to honour it. It makes good sense for future dealings.

Maybe riders should offer their services on e-bay, buy now or best offer. Then they can be rated by feedback

I believe that's what happened  last year with Jake Allen Glasgow spoke to him re a deal and he said he had verbally agreed a deal with Scunthorpe so said fine and walked away.Reading the posts on here have we made a bid for a Workington rider,and who is it maybe he is worried what happened before the P O semi- final might happen again over to you T H J  

[Solidmango]

10 hours ago, allthegearbutnaeidea said:

Yeah but Glasgow have literally put a statement up very recently about losing 100’s of thousands of pounds every year and how they can’t afford to do that anymore, yet are still going about the same way of poaching riders and paying far more than other teams for middle order riders. It’s not on because it is forcing all of the other clubs to stretch their budgets due to all the riders demanding that extra £5/10 per point that is un needed and is due to the fact they know how much others are getting paid. Wage caps and cutting out greedy engine tuners are a neccessity for this sport to survive and whilst their is not teams like Glasgow will continue to ruin this good sport by making themselves and all of the other clubs go into financial ruin until they close down. I appreciate what the Facenna’s have done to the stadium and to the club but I do not appreciate what they have done to the sport at all.

And yes I do know some of the figures of riders wages from a couple of years ago at Glasgow and no I am not sharing them but yes they are completely over the top and yes they are a lot more than other similar riders were getting at other clubs that year.

You do know that Glasgow can only sign 7 riders for the beginning of the season?! How many riders are there?! What riders have we poached/poaching?!

The fact is, riders like the vast majority of people that go out to work, want to obtain the best deal for the services they provide. Likewise, employers want to take on the people that will provide their business with the best opportunity to succeed and flourish. What Glasgow decide to pay their riders has very little impact and certainly does not force other clubs to pay more. It's funny how none of Glasgow's critics have maybe thought riders want to join Glasgow because they will get paid the amount agreed and within the time frame agreed, for me that sort of security is worth more than £5-10 extra per point!  

How many people move jobs for more money? It doesn't mean that others doing the same job in different roles across the sector all go and demand (and receive) more money. 

Like Gazc has pointed out, yes we made a loss this year but how much of that was apportioned to the one-off big buys - track, fence, TV screen etc?!

It's too easy for people to come on here and start spouting sh!t with no basis for their accusations. 

[Gazc]

There have been some very good points made and some we don't like but are very valid , however as some have said to accuse Glasgow of potentially ruining the sport all alone is just plain stupid.

If we want to pay our riders in Gold Sovereigns we can, as I have said it is up to other clubs to operate there club there way and us the way we see fit, people get paid more in all walks of life sh*t happens.

The dramatization and bigging the scenario up is both comical and stupid at the same time, there is not a lot more to be said  people will always have a go at us all we can do is sit back and let them whilst pis*ing ourselves laughing while they do it.

[cheggie]

First guestimate of next year's team..

1	Wright	7.68	(2.5% red)
2	Sargeant	4.09	(2.5% red)
3	Kerr	7	(2.5% red)
4	Starke	5.73	(2.5% red)
5	Summers	7.18
6	Greaves	3.99	(2.5% red)
7	Thomas	2.24	(2.5% red)
		37.91
		0.09

[allthegearbutnaeidea]

8 minutes ago, Gazc said:

There have been some very good points made and some we don't like but are very valid , however as some have said to accuse Glasgow of potentially ruining the sport all alone is just plain stupid.

If we want to pay our riders in Gold Sovereigns we can, as I have said it is up to other clubs to operate there club there way and us the way we see fit, people get paid more in all walks of life sh*t happens.

The dramatization and bigging the scenario up is both comical and stupid at the same time, there is not a lot more to be said  people will always have a go at us all we can do is sit back and let them whilst pis*ing ourselves laughing while they do it.

Your owner has just threatened to pull the plug due to losses yet still seems to apparently be paying way over the odds for riders? I wouldn’t be pis*ing my self laughing, I’d just be pis*ed off because once the Facenna’s go it will be back to where you guys was before they saved the club just with a nicer stadium. Or no club at all? 

[Solidmango]

7 minutes ago, cheggie said:

First guestimate of next year's team..

1	Wright	7.68	(2.5% red)
2	Sargeant	4.09	(2.5% red)
3	Kerr	7	(2.5% red)
4	Starke	5.73	(2.5% red)
5	Summers	7.18
6	Greaves	3.99	(2.5% red)
7	Thomas	2.24	(2.5% red)
		37.91
		0.09

I like the look of that team, very balanced and 3 guys that could all be at number 1 depending on form. 

 

I reckon we will see Cook back. I know he takes up a chunk of points but when you think we have dropped 4.5 points off team building and only 2 years ago we had Worrall, Summers and Lawson all on c9pt averages then having Cook and one those other two heat leaders on an average of c6 points then I feel it is a gamble worth taking. 

 

Not only will he be favourite in most Heat 13&15's he will also be able to help and mentor the younger members of the team. 

 

The big question is what Workington rider have we tapped up/poached/offered mental money to? Proctor/Klindt/Jensen? 

[Gazc]

10 minutes ago, allthegearbutnaeidea said:

Your owner has just threatened to pull the plug due to losses yet still seems to apparently be paying way over the odds for riders? I wouldn’t be pis*ing my self laughing, I’d just be pis*ed off because once the Facenna’s go it will be back to where you guys was before they saved the club just with a nicer stadium. Or no club at all? 

Read my post it is aimed at the inane ramblings on Armageddon on us ruining the sport apparently , and at no point have the Facenna's said they are walking away where do you get that from?. 

What they have said is we will review it after 2019 as to whether we stay Championship they have never once said they are walking away so yes we will sit and have our wee chuckle at the haters on how we are ruining the sport it is comedy gold.

Edited November 22, 2018 by Gazc

[montie]

28 minutes ago, Gazc said:

There have been some very good points made and some we don't like but are very valid , however as some have said to accuse Glasgow of potentially ruining the sport all alone is just plain stupid.

.

in all fairness i would imagine that if Glasgow pay more [which is no bad thing really,thats life] im far from convinced in most cases it is much more than others,or not enough to cause problems anyway

and its a bit rich Workington fans having a pop as they also have a reputaion as being strong wage payers,you dont get Kindt/Bach for peanuts thats a fact

Edited November 22, 2018 by montie

[Gazc]

Just now, montie said:

in all fairness i would imagine that if Glasgow may more [which is no bad thing really,thats life] im far from convinced in most cases it is much more than others,or not enough to cause problems anyway

and its a bit rich Workington fans having a pop as they also have a reputaion as being strong wage payers,you dont get Kindt/Bach for peanuts thats a fact

Prepare for incoming the haters won't like this far to sensible a post and is against there agenda.

[MANSE]

15 minutes ago, montie said:

in all fairness i would imagine that if Glasgow pay more [which is no bad thing really,thats life] im far from convinced in most cases it is much more than others,or not enough to cause problems anyway

and its a bit rich Workington fans having a pop as they also have a reputaion as being strong wage payers,you dont get Kindt/Bach for peanuts thats a fact

 

Strong wage payers ? might have been disputed by Workington riders during the season

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited November 22, 2018 by MANSE

[cheggie]

1 hour ago, Solidmango said:

I like the look of that team, very balanced and 3 guys that could all be at number 1 depending on form. 

 

I reckon we will see Cook back. I know he takes up a chunk of points but when you think we have dropped 4.5 points off team building and only 2 years ago we had Worrall, Summers and Lawson all on c9pt averages then having Cook and one those other two heat leaders on an average of c6 points then I feel it is a gamble worth taking. 

 

Not only will he be favourite in most Heat 13&15's he will also be able to help and mentor the younger members of the team. 

 

The big question is what Workington rider have we tapped up/poached/offered mental money to? Proctor/Klindt/Jensen? 

I do like the balance as well, and if Starke can kick on a again at no.4 - I was thinking that he could push up toward the 7pt mark as well.

And yeah, the big question is will Cookie be back next year - as I totally agree on your point about 13/15 and mentoring the younger guys.

Hopefully we'll find out soon and until then, I will continue to 'play' fantasy 2019 team building on a spreadsheet.

[TotallyHonestJohn]

12 hours ago, Paulco said:

Someone offers you a job at £x and you verbally agree terms . You go home and someone else phones you and offers you £x amount more . So you call the first one and say " sorry I've changed my mind " . 

I've done that in the past and so has thousands of other people , it happens , it's life . 

But to blame Glasgow for threatening the future existence of clubs and endangering the future of speedway as a whole is hysteria bordering on paranoia . 

If a club offers to pay a rider more money than another club will , then deal with it . The only future Glasgow is threatening is possibly it's own for the gamble of being a good payer . 

Paulco there is a process which Glasgow don't seem to; or are incapable of following and we are dealing with Sportsmen on very different terms and conditions than "Bob the Builder" who can walk from site to site plying his trade to get the best offer. I wont go into the ins and outs however its not done in life even at the top levels of employment and you start to deal with the likes of headhunters there are always rules and guidelines that are applied and the other thing to bear in mind these guys are self employed as I am and you do not agree to a contract then renege on it, it costs your more business and you get a certain reputation. 

11 hours ago, Gazc said:

The disdain and jealousy shown on here since the takeover at Glasgow has been present since 2015 and has started to gather pace, we even have a poster quoting how we allegedly do our business.

Whilst you are 100% correct it will be ignored and the witch hunt will continue from a certain few.

Better letting them vent there bile and let them push there agenda they will continue regardless.

 

No witch hunt and I for one am always pleased when new money and new ideas come into the sport, however having been on the other end of how you "do your business" its wrong and not the way to go about things, maybe its the car salesman mentality that's coming to the fore who knows; however its infuriating when you have to tell another rider who has signed a contract that you can not commit and he is being dropped due to a guy you had an agreement with being poached by another club. Where you have to change the structure of your team building to such an extent where you end up losing two 6.5 point riders (one cut; one nobbled) to having to fit in a 7.5 pointer and a 3.5 pointer which you may say "its still adds to 11 points"; however taking the 3.5 pointer on; means the guy you had on 4 points now moves into the main body of the team to accommodate the change, weakening the team as you built to keep the 4 point guy at reserve. Its not just about the money...

11 hours ago, mac101 said:

Promoters Can always  say no to any rider if it’s outwith their budget I know Glasgow knocked back a rider because of his demands  and by the sound of it  Somerset knocked back Charles Wright because they would not go over their budget and with the low team ave this year some decent riders might  miss out with their demands so there will always be another rider that will take the deal 

Correct but there is a process to follow, even if a rider rode for you last year the rider can always say at the end of the season I don't want to come back, that's is okay; and the club can say we are building different next year and thanks for this year but we wont be using you, and that's okay too; its when someone has agreed a contract and you have built your team; then along comes "Billy Deep Pockets" and the whole thing the other side has done or is trying to achieve falls apart, its not hard is it to  play fair and follow the guidelines rules or agreed process.

11 hours ago, Gazc said:

Not overstating it at all it is out there and not difficult to find.

Glasgow will always do what is best for Glasgow it is there choice but as i said our finances and accounts will be under more scrutiny this year  more than ever.

Our business model has failed but i will not fault them on trying, the model needs changed the proof on how much by will be on how we do off the track more than on it. 

Yep "Glasgow will always do what is best for Glasgow it is there choice" and fair play "Self First; Self Last and if there is owt left Self Again" promoters doing what they want totally selfish to the detriment of everyone else, I am sure I have heard this elsewhere on here, but never mind when you are in a league of one what do you do then when. You need meaningful competition...

2 hours ago, MANSE said:

I believe that's what happened  last year with Jake Allen Glasgow spoke to him re a deal and he said he had verbally agreed a deal with Scunthorpe so said fine and walked away.Reading the posts on here have we made a bid for a Workington rider,and who is it maybe he is worried what happened before the P O semi- final might happen again over to you T H J  

You have me with this one Manse "what happened before the P O semi- final might happen again" what did happen? Sorry but you will have to enlighten me

32 minutes ago, montie said:

in all fairness i would imagine that if Glasgow pay more [which is no bad thing really,that's life] I'm far from convinced in most cases it is much more than others, or not enough to cause problems anyway

and its a bit rich Workington fans having a pop as they also have a reputation as being strong wage payers,you don't get Kindt/Bach for peanuts that's a fact

I am also happy for Glasgow to pay what they want its their business and its up to them, no problem; the issue is how they operate outwith the rules and guidelines, I also agree Klindt and Bach were not cheap however Workington were very late in declaring last year as were Newcastle and both clubs ended up paying over the odds due to not being in the initial set up for obtaining riders, furthermore due to being late to the party they had to pay a premium for riders who would not normally attract the remuneration they normally would have, which is another problem. There still aren't enough riders to go round and bringing up two teams will only strengthen the riders bargaining positions, but that's a wholly different kettle of fish. Believe me Workington are not paying over the odds this season, and to be brutally honest they cant afford to, however lets not get away from the fact there is an awful lot of jealousy coming the other way for what Workington achieved last year with what everyone perceived as a crap team...

30 minutes ago, Gazc said:

Prepare for incoming the haters won't like this far to sensible a post and is against there agenda.

You want to take that chip off your shoulder  and loose the paranoia Gaz its not healthy, next thing you know you'll be "going down the garden to eat worms"  

19 minutes ago, MANSE said:

Strong wage payers ? might have been disputed by Workington riders during the season

 

Manse do you know what a Myth is? no its not someone who is married to a "Myth-ter" if you will pardon my lisp!!! I can assure you all of the Workington riders wages are guaranteed and everyone gets what they are owed. But this headline is always good on a slow news day.

Play fair and follow the rules and guidelines; as no one likes or responds well to bully boy tactics or the nobbling approach, its not the cash; its not what is being paid, the issue is how it is being done and I know people think it is an over reaction to say it is threatening other operations but that's the hard cold truth, this is my first year at this and believe me I am thinking long and hard as to whether I make it my last. I am ringing and texting guys with regards to their assets who I would like to fit into a team under the delusion that we already  have a key rider in the bag only to find a backdoor approach is undermining everything I am trying to achieve which is totally wasting my time and money... So do I take the same approach and ring riders direct go behind the asset owners back or the team he rode for the previous year and make big offers not asking permission of anyone when they have signed agreements with other clubs? No because that just makes me part of the problem as well; not part of the solution. I know I can be a pedantic tool on here at times but that is part of the fun (ask Jenga) however I do have morals and scruples unlike many others

Regards
THJ