Glasgow 2019 Onwards

[Halifaxtiger]

43 minutes ago, ruckerroo said:

Don't keep paying over the odds to riders , it effects every team when you do that and pushes then nearer the mire as well 

I think you are absolutely right and this simply has to be addressed. The pay rates that I have heard Glasgow were offering were unbelievable, and I got that from several sources.

Its all very well to bleat about huge losses but when part of that is down to unsustainable wages responsibility lies significantly with the promotion themselves - they are the ones who are just ignoring the income they have when they consider their expenditure.

Glasgow might be the worst example but there's no doubt in my mind that others are almost as bad. 

I have said several times in the past that aside from the very top boys speedway has never been a full time occupation - at whatever level - and the sooner we get back to that the better. I am sure there will be riders who really won't like it but they need to get a grasp on reality.

[Solidmango]

52 minutes ago, poolebolton said:

Paying riders too much money!!! Heard Cook was near 2K a meeting with points! 

Insane money for the championship. 

£100 per point isn't far off what most of the top riders in the championship would be getting. A maximum on that basis would have earned him £1500 so not really insane money. 

[IronScorpion]

It is not just the top riders in our league like Cook, Nicholls, Harris, Morris et al but other heat leaders & 2nd strings. Ex riders that move on get paid more per point & sponsorship then when offered the chance to guest for their old team are told these are the rates that we can afford, turn down the opportunity. 

[Halifaxtiger]

26 minutes ago, Solidmango said:

£100 per point isn't far off what most of the top riders in the championship would be getting. A maximum on that basis would have earned him £1500 so not really insane money. 

I'd be surprised if 'most' top Championship riders are paid that amount. 

If they are, it doesn't take the genius of an Einstein to work out why speedway teams are in desperate financial straights.

[Solidmango]

1 minute ago, Halifaxtiger said:

I'd be surprised if 'most' top Championship riders are paid that amount. 

If they are, it doesn't take the genius of an Einstein to work out why speedway teams are in desperate financial straights.

Reserves on c£50-60 pp and it increases thereafter through the team. 

With 20 league meetings and say 10 other meetings on top, with an average of 10 points, and ignoring heat 15/rr etc for simplicity, this would provide an income of c£30k for a someone on this sort of money.

£100 per point may seem a lot on the face of it but when you factor in the expenses incurred by the riders - bikes, repairs, travelling etc then it's not a lot of money hence the need to double up. 

I know they will benefit from sponsorship to help offset costs but that can't be relied upon. 

The BSPA/SCB have a lot to sort out but at the end of the day they can't magically generate '000's of new supporters to bridge the gap between a clubs current income and expenses and I can't see rider wages reducing either. Unfortunately it is a bit of a catch 22 situation and I don't agree that the full blame can be laid at the door of the BSPA. 

[IronScorpion]

1 minute ago, Solidmango said:

Reserves on c£50-60 pp and it increases thereafter through the team. 

With 20 league meetings and say 10 other meetings on top, with an average of 10 points, and ignoring heat 15/rr etc for simplicity, this would provide an income of c£30k for a someone on this sort of money.

£100 per point may seem a lot on the face of it but when you factor in the expenses incurred by the riders - bikes, repairs, travelling etc then it's not a lot of money hence the need to double up. 

I know they will benefit from sponsorship to help offset costs but that can't be relied upon. 

The BSPA/SCB have a lot to sort out but at the end of the day they can't magically generate '000's of new supporters to bridge the gap between a clubs current income and expenses and I can't see rider wages reducing either. Unfortunately it is a bit of a catch 22 situation and I don't agree that the full blame can be laid at the door of the BSPA. 

The problems have been there for a lot of years now & just tweaking thinks here & there has not solved them. So let us not just blame the BSPA, the promoters, the race night package, the riders, the bikes but look at ourselves & the fans that have left the sport. Even the diehards are dwindling away.

[jenga]

championship clubs need to freeze the big earners out of their league and into the so called top league only to survive . 

gone are the days of jumping ship to another club because that club pays more .look around every town , city and see how many shops etc are closing because the cant afford to keep staff and the increases in certain set out debits out  of their profits .

get real and bite the bullet, shake a leg , man up , accept the facts and even strangle the budgie !

[Gazc]

In any business if you are running at a loss the first plan of action is look at your controllable costs.

Normally rhe wages you pay is any business highest outlay, this is were you can bridge the gap normally under consultation.

To run your business losing enourmous amounts but continue to pay over the odds continually is reckless and bad business practice in any venture.

Speedway is no different.

[Halifaxtiger]

27 minutes ago, Solidmango said:

Reserves on c£50-60 pp and it increases thereafter through the team. 

With 20 league meetings and say 10 other meetings on top, with an average of 10 points, and ignoring heat 15/rr etc for simplicity, this would provide an income of c£30k for a someone on this sort of money.

£100 per point may seem a lot on the face of it but when you factor in the expenses incurred by the riders - bikes, repairs, travelling etc then it's not a lot of money hence the need to double up. 

I know they will benefit from sponsorship to help offset costs but that can't be relied upon. 

The BSPA/SCB have a lot to sort out but at the end of the day they can't magically generate '000's of new supporters to bridge the gap between a clubs current income and expenses and I can't see rider wages reducing either. Unfortunately it is a bit of a catch 22 situation and I don't agree that the full blame can be laid at the door of the BSPA. 

The problem is that they treat speedway as a full time occupation and consequently they expect to be paid accordingly. Until recently, and with the exception of the top stars, it never has been. 

A few years ago, the then Somerset team manager Mick Bell criticised one of his riders for expecting to make a living from the sport. As a second string/reserve in the old British League (who won three winners medals) Bell said that when he was riding speedway was no more than 'a good paying hobby'.

What we get from rider demands on the basis of full time occupation is pay of - to use your figures - £1,200 a week or so. For one rider, on gates of 6-700, that's absolutely unsustainable. Worse still we get the nightmare of uncontrolled doubling up which has undeniably been a disaster for the clubs. 

Dean Felton has repeatedly said that the 'tail is wagging the dog' ie its all about riders, their wishes, needs and demands. He's right.

It means that one thing is absolutely certain : when decisions are made regarding the future of the sport and its ability to make ends meet, it cannot be the case that the matter of rider pay is not considered. As one of the major costs, it should be near the top of the list. 

Edited November 12, 2018 by Halifaxtiger

[screm]

1 hour ago, Solidmango said:

£100 per point isn't far off what most of the top riders in the championship would be getting. A maximum on that basis would have earned him £1500 so not really insane money. 

Apart from one possibly two riders I`d be amazed if any top Championship rider were on that kind of money.

[poolebolton]

45 minutes ago, screm said:

Apart from one possibly two riders I`d be amazed if any top Championship rider were on that kind of money.

Poole aren't paying that much. Holder/Magic they would be on 2k meeting everyone else no way. Sponsors should help cover rider costs and then pay them less. 

Glasgow must have been paying close to 10k a meeting in wages. Thats crazy 

[cityrebel]

4 hours ago, Gazc said:

Not just Glasgow , Workington or whoever 2019 will be make or break for British Speedway in general.

The damage is done. 2018 has already been make or break for some clubs.

[Fromafar]

48 minutes ago, screm said:

Apart from one possibly two riders I`d be amazed if any top Championship rider were on that kind of money.

If David Howe was on £60pp their must a good number of riders near that figure IMO.I fact I think the majority will be more that David,so with the attendances I have seen in the last few seasons at most tracks you can see where the problems lie.The riders need a reality check IMO .Sponsers and fans trusts are all that's keeping the sport going .

[cityrebel]

The sport will probably be down to about 20 tracks soon. In these times of austerity and uncertainty, the fan base is going to keep on shrinking, regardless of what the promoters do.

[montie]

3 hours ago, kermitfrog said:

One of the things that have really caused a complete downfall in attendence of meetings must be the lack, and big break in fixtures. How are you meant to keep fans coming back over and over, if there is say a three or four week break in fixtures. People find other things to do.

Hopefully someone can come up with a masterplan to save this brilliant sport.

But let be honest,have attendances been down this year,??

 

im far from convinced they have ,i know Scunny are slightly up on last year and i must say at some of the away tracks ive visited this year ive seen quite nice crowds,not record breaking by any stretch but certainly not massively down  to sustain such losses as are being reported

[LagutaRacingFan]

Seems like the Panthers are the only sustainable club. 

[mikebv]

7 hours ago, greyhoundp said:

The long term future doesnt look great, with continuing substantial losses..

https://www.glasgowtigers.co/club-statement-club-position/?mc_cid=3c447b9434&mc_eid=afb93a01f5

I wonder if at any stage of reviewing why attendances are not hitting the required amount to cover costs have the Glasgow Promoters ever reflected on how much the Mickey Mouse way the sport is ran effects them?

One of their riders (Chris Harris) won a Premiership medal riding for Poole and one week later a Cup Winners medal riding for Somerset..

I would suggest they try and influence the stopping of such nonsense and then try and raise awareness and support for their business...

You can be as positive as you want in engaging locals to help...

When the product you are selling is so inherently flawed you will never have a chance of success..

 

Edited November 12, 2018 by mikebv

[Solidmango]

3 hours ago, IronScorpion said:

The problems have been there for a lot of years now & just tweaking thinks here & there has not solved them. So let us not just blame the BSPA, the promoters, the race night package, the riders, the bikes but look at ourselves & the fans that have left the sport. Even the diehards are dwindling away.

Totally agree. 90% of the 'package' is the same as what's in Poland, the small variation in our product is not what is causing the major issues. There are simply not enough people going to meetings nowadays. 

 

[Solidmango]

3 hours ago, jenga said:

championship clubs need to freeze the big earners out of their league and into the so called top league only to survive . 

gone are the days of jumping ship to another club because that club pays more .look around every town , city and see how many shops etc are closing because the cant afford to keep staff and the increases in certain set out debits out  of their profits .

get real and bite the bullet, shake a leg , man up , accept the facts and even strangle the budgie !

They tried something like this in the Premiership - max one rider over 8 pt average, went down like a lead balloon with most. 

[Solidmango]

17 minutes ago, mikebv said:

I wonder if at any stage of reviewing why attendances are not hitting the required amount to cover costs have the Glasgow Promoters ever reflected on how much the Mickey Mouse way the sport is ran effects them?

One of their riders (Chris Harris) won a Premiership medal riding for Poole and one week later a Cup Winners medal riding for Somerset..

I would suggest they try and influence the stopping of such nonsense and then try and raise awareness and support for their business...

You can be as positive as you want in engaging locals to help...

When the product you are selling is so inherently flawed you will never have a chance of success..

 

What is the alternative? We can't afford to pay the riders in a 7 man team as it is, they have a squad system in Poland to avoid the issue you point out, that's never going to happen in this country with attendances/revenue the way it is just now. 

I can't imagine many people saying, I'm not going to watch speedway any more because we have to get a guest rider, from another club, due to injury/absence.

I've got to be honest, so many people on here/social media are very critical of the BSPA/SCB and slate decisions that have been made but very rarely come up with a solution to the existing problems.