singy13 Posted November 20, 2018 Report Share Posted November 20, 2018 2 minutes ago, scaramanga said: agree there but too be honest not many kids going recently No... they prefer xbox etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jenga Posted November 20, 2018 Report Share Posted November 20, 2018 (edited) 10 minutes ago, singy13 said: Which is why that's not good for kids attending...... with school in the morning. to be honest. kids may go to bed around 8.50 ish , but very rare are they asleep. way too much tech in the bedrooms nowadays . Edited November 20, 2018 by jenga Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
singy13 Posted November 20, 2018 Report Share Posted November 20, 2018 15 minutes ago, scaramanga said: agree there but too be honest not many kids going recently Meant to say there were quite a lot of kids in the Grandstand the night Comets beat Lakeside to win the Championship.....some said it was their first time at Speedway which was good to hear....that's if, of course, they enjoyed it ha...although the very severe cold made a couple leave early sadly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Midget Posted November 21, 2018 Report Share Posted November 21, 2018 Never mind all this church going crack, get rasmus Jensen signed up before some one else does 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
singy13 Posted November 21, 2018 Report Share Posted November 21, 2018 2 hours ago, Midget said: Never mind all this church going crack, get rasmus Jensen signed up before some one else does Hallelujah to that.........let's hope/pray some work is going on behind the scenes to sign him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scaramanga Posted November 21, 2018 Report Share Posted November 21, 2018 4 hours ago, singy13 said: Hallelujah to that.........let's hope/pray some work is going on behind the scenes to sign him. im sure im not alone in hoping hes already signed up if not the question is why not unless he don't want to Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
singy13 Posted November 21, 2018 Report Share Posted November 21, 2018 (edited) 14 minutes ago, scaramanga said: im sure im not alone in hoping hes already signed up if not the question is why not unless he don't want to You're not alone in hoping Rasmus returns that's for certain. Where's Totally Honest John with his 'inside info' please? Personally I get peed off with all this points limit stuff. Suppose it's a team leveller, and some say - a money saver - eh !! beats me that one ???? (but pls don't explain ta)... Anyway I know it's not very likely to happen but my wish would be to have our magnificent seven, treble winners of 2018, back next season. Edited November 21, 2018 by singy13 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mac101 Posted November 21, 2018 Report Share Posted November 21, 2018 4 hours ago, singy13 said: Hallelujah to that.........let's hope/pray some work is going on behind the scenes to sign him. from what I was told he is owned by the bspa and will go where he wants Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
singy13 Posted November 21, 2018 Report Share Posted November 21, 2018 8 minutes ago, mac101 said: from what I was told he is owned by the bspa and will go where he wants Didn't know that........crazy sport (for many other reasons too mind).......is it just Rasmus owned by BSPA or do they have many such assets - primed and ready for Christmas shopping.???????? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TotallyHonestJohn Posted November 21, 2018 Author Report Share Posted November 21, 2018 (edited) 3 hours ago, mac101 said: from what I was told he is owned by the bspa and will go where he wants Correct but he isn't the only rider owned by the BSPA... however riders can't officiaĺly go where they want until a laid down procedure has been exhausted... the official procedure is (very) roughly and very loosely applied as follows... the club who would like to sign a rider should ask the BSPA/or parent club/promoter if they can make an approach to their asset. If this is sanctioned they then go to the club he was previously at and ask them if they are using the rider and if no... then they go for it... if yes his previous years club get the first opportunity to do a deal, now the rider and previious club might have already agreed they are moving on or the rider may say I want xxx to come back and there is a failure to agree and everyone moves on... Previous club and rider know the situation however this still doesn't give the rider free reign to negotiate as the parent club need to be asked if an appraoch can be made as they may wish to take him back and if the rider cant agree terms again... then its open season... however what is not supposed to happen is a rider agrees a deal/contract with one club only for another club to come in with a higher offer gazumping the club who thought they had a deal... I suppose in football terms it would be classed as an illegal approach, however it makes things very difficult for the club who had the original agreement to totally change tack when you are building to a set points limit. Its not just one rider that you potentiality lose you may have to ship out others (who have contacts already signed), the whole team may need revisiting to rebalance it when fitting in a different rider not included in the original team plans or running with a weaker team than expected. The process isn't ideal but the consequences can be huge if some order isn't followed... however the process shouldn't be circumvented and especially when the rider agrees a deal (and may have signed a contract) only for another club to come in and offer the rider (who had been happy with his deal/contract) ridiculous amounts to walk away and move to the new club as the highest bidder. It is actions like this that is skewing the whole payment structure creating absolute havoc with team building plans and sets unrealistic financial expectations amongst riders... I'm doing this on my phone and getting a headache straining my eyes looking at such a small screen so I will cut it there however what I will add is it is maybe time to bring in a grading structure to limit clubs scattergun team building approach or do away with the asset based structure we currently have and allow the BSPA to have all the assets and control them for the benefit of the whole sport applying sensible restrictions. More to follow... as no don't the usual abuse will need to be defended or the pedantic questions answered in microscopic fashion. However have at it and I may leave replies until tomorrow as my head is banging... need to go to Specsavers... Regards THJ Edited November 21, 2018 by TotallyHonestJohn Spelling 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mac101 Posted November 21, 2018 Report Share Posted November 21, 2018 (edited) So basically if the rider has signed on the dotted line for you you have him if not and you want him back but he wants to go somewhere else for a better deal he tells the bspa he wants to go to wherever and goes the riders does what he wants nothing new there move on Edited November 21, 2018 by mac101 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
singy13 Posted November 21, 2018 Report Share Posted November 21, 2018 2 hours ago, TotallyHonestJohn said: Correct but he isn't the only rider owned by the BSPA... however riders can't officiaĺly go where they want until a laid down procedure has been exhausted... the official procedure is (very) roughly and very loosely applied as follows... the club who would like to sign a rider should ask the BSPA/or parent club/promoter if they can make an approach to their asset. If this is sanctioned they then go to the club he was previously at and ask them if they are using the rider and if no... then they go for it... if yes his previous years club get the first opportunity to do a deal, now the rider and previious club might have already agreed they are moving on or the rider may say I want xxx to come back and there is a failure to agree and everyone moves on... Previous club and rider know the situation however this still doesn't give the rider free reign to negotiate as the parent club need to be asked if an appraoch can be made as they may wish to take him back and if the rider cant agree terms again... then its open season... however what is not supposed to happen is a rider agrees a deal/contract with one club only for another club to come in with a higher offer gazumping the club who thought they had a deal... I suppose in football terms it would be classed as an illegal approach, however it makes things very difficult for the club who had the original agreement to totally change tack when you are building to a set points limit. Its not just one rider that you potentiality lose you may have to ship out others (who have contacts already signed), the whole team may need revisiting to rebalance it when fitting in a different rider not included in the original team plans or running with a weaker team than expected. The process isn't ideal but the consequences can be huge if some order isn't followed... however the process shouldn't be circumvented and especially when the rider agrees a deal (and may have signed a contract) only for another club to come in and offer the rider (who had been happy with his deal/contract) ridiculous amounts to walk away and move to the new club as the highest bidder. It is actions like this that is skewing the whole payment structure creating absolute havoc with team building plans and sets unrealistic financial expectations amongst riders... I'm doing this on my phone and getting a headache straining my eyes looking at such a small screen so I will cut it there however what I will add is it is maybe time to bring in a grading structure to limit clubs scattergun team building approach or do away with the asset based structure we currently have and allow the BSPA to have all the assets and control them for the benefit of the whole sport applying sensible restrictions. More to follow... as no don't the usual abuse will need to be defended or the pedantic questions answered in microscopic fashion. However have at it and I may leave replies until tomorrow as my head is banging... need to go to Specsavers... Regards THJ Bloody hell...just let me know the team members I need to shout for and let's enjoy the speedway.......specsavers??? pass me my tablets quick style. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WorkyWorky Posted November 21, 2018 Report Share Posted November 21, 2018 Basically any rider you want, you have to ask the club/BSPA that the rider belongs to, for permission to speak to said rider. If a club contacts a rider without owners permission, contract signed or not, it is as THJ states, an illegal approach. It is not just a case of ‘We will do as we see fit.’ Rules are rules. Money being thrown around by any team is a different matter, and is gradually adding to the demise of British Speedway. Yes you are within your rights to spend as much of a ridiculous amount of money as you want. But it’s rather strange after stating and agreeing with other teams, that losses of £100,000+ have got to stop, isn’t it? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
singy13 Posted November 21, 2018 Report Share Posted November 21, 2018 1 minute ago, WorkyWorky said: Basically any rider you want, you have to ask the club/BSPA that the rider belongs to, for permission to speak to said rider. If a club contacts a rider without owners permission, contract signed or not, it is as THJ states, an illegal approach. It is not just a case of ‘We will do as we see fit.’ Rules are rules. Money being thrown around by any team is a different matter, and is gradually adding to the demise of British Speedway. Yes you are within your rights to spend as much of a ridiculous amount of money as you want. But it’s rather strange after stating and agreeing with other teams, that losses of £100,000+ have got to stop, isn’t it? Last sentence sums up why teams do cry for help.................. eventually!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mac101 Posted November 21, 2018 Report Share Posted November 21, 2018 (edited) 10 minutes ago, WorkyWorky said: Basically any rider you want, you have to ask the club/BSPA that the rider belongs to, for permission to speak to said rider. If a club contacts a rider without owners permission, contract signed or not, it is as THJ states, an illegal approach. It is not just a case of ‘We will do as we see fit.’ Rules are rules. Money being thrown around by any team is a different matter, and is gradually adding to the demise of British Speedway. Yes you are within your rights to spend as much of a ridiculous amount of money as you want. But it’s rather strange after stating and agreeing with other teams, that losses of £100,000+ have got to stop, isn’t it? Surely the owner of the rider is the bspa so you contact them first or if you contact rider because no club owns him they would tell you to contact bspa before any deal can be done the riders are only being loaned to the club for a season unless they gave a contract that’s for more than one season pretty sure every promoter in the league will approach the rider before the club just to see if he would like to come common sense really Edited November 21, 2018 by mac101 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WorkyWorky Posted November 21, 2018 Report Share Posted November 21, 2018 2 minutes ago, singy13 said: Last sentence sums up why teams do cry for help.................. eventually!! Teams trying to play catch up with offering riders over the odds and bankrupting themselves in the meantime. It really is scary, there will be no teams left to watch in a few seasons time I fear! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WorkyWorky Posted November 21, 2018 Report Share Posted November 21, 2018 4 minutes ago, mac101 said: Surely the owner of the rider is the bspa so you contact them first or if you contact rider because no club owns him they would tell you to contact bspa before any deal can be done the riders are only being loaned to the club for a season unless they gave a contract that’s for more than one season Yup that sounds about spot on! That is what should happen. THJ’s post summed up in fewer words with less of a headache 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
singy13 Posted November 21, 2018 Report Share Posted November 21, 2018 2 minutes ago, WorkyWorky said: Teams trying to play catch up with offering riders over the odds and bankrupting themselves in the meantime. It really is scary, there will be no teams left to watch in a few seasons time I fear! Surely though the riders must see they are doing damage to the overall existence of the sport by accepting silly terms?....basically they will eventually kill the goose that's laying their golden egg??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gazc Posted November 21, 2018 Report Share Posted November 21, 2018 3 minutes ago, singy13 said: Surely though the riders must see they are doing damage to the overall existence of the sport by accepting silly terms?....basically they will eventually kill the goose that's laying their golden egg??? The list of what is wrong with the sport is endless not just in demand overpaid riders. We spoke about the crowd levels at Paisley in another thread we will never see the like of that again. The what we do wrong list dwarfs the what we do right list and it grows ever wider, for people to continually lay blame with Glasgow is blinkered and wrong. The damage was done well before the Facennas took over, spitting the dummy and stamping your feet and airing dirty linen on a forum wont change a thing. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mac101 Posted November 21, 2018 Report Share Posted November 21, 2018 4 minutes ago, singy13 said: Surely though the riders must see they are doing damage to the overall existence of the sport by accepting silly terms?....basically they will eventually kill the goose that's laying their golden egg??? So if you were offered more money and paid on time to move to a different company you would say no thanks happy with What I have 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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