Belle Vue 2019

[ouch]

37 minutes ago, Speedtiger said:

I have been watching speedway long enough to know a club with financial problems. It’s not rocket science. I go to NSS almost every home meeting. I have some good mates at BV and they know what’s going on. You only need to look on the terraces and it’s easy to calculate the rider costs etc. But I’m ok with your rose coloured view so we will wait and see who right in due course. 

Could you let us know the rider costs etc?

[acef]

2 hours ago, iwright71 said:

It makes you wonder if its ever going to work at Belle Vue. Great stadium, great racing, great facilities, in a big city with a big catchment area, relatively successful teams ( last 4 years in the play offs and a KO Cup) but no more council subsidies and losing money year on year. Its questionable how Belle Vue can significantly increase their turnover while reducing costs with their team and remaining successful on the track. Success in speedway more than most sports is shared around, what happens should Belle Vue have a couple of barren years on track ?

I don’t think barren years will matter. BV supporters are used to it, and we have managed to maintain reasonable levels over the last decade.

Unfortunately speedway just doesn’t have the pull. For the majority of people it’s boring and not worth the investment. The catchment area etc doesn’t really matter. It’s the same for many clubs.

I think an average attendance of 1.5k is an astonishing achievement, I really do, given the absolute mess this sport is currently in.

[martinmauger]

Maybe still a few ripples locally from the opening meeting ?  I only mention that being a possible reason as there have been letters about it in the Speedway Star in the last couple of weeks.  Always said it from day one: brilliant achievement just building the stadium in the first place....

Edited February 2, 2019 by martinmauger
belated spelling

[waytogo28]

9 hours ago, acef said:

Unfortunately speedway just doesn’t have the pull. For the majority of people it’s boring and not worth the investment. The catchment area etc doesn’t really matter. It’s the same for many clubs.

2

Speedway certainly doesn't have 10% of the pull it had a generation ago. The set up within Manchester is perfect as is the stadium and track and if this was Poland it would be copied in 10 -15 places. Speedway in the UK has fallen into a whirlpool of disinterest and may survive after the Big Reshuffle in a semi pro or amateur sport.  The NSS was sadly born 15 or 20 years too late.

[PHILIPRISING]

5 hours ago, martinmauger said:

Maybe still a few ripples locally from the opening meeting ?  I only mention that being a possible reason as there have been letters about it in the Speedway Star in the last couple of weeks.  Always said it from day one: brilliant acheivement just building the stadium in the first place....

Along with a terrific race track which, ultimately, is what really matters. 

[bigcatdiary]

2 hours ago, PHILIPRISING said:

Along with a terrific race track which, ultimately, is what really matters. 

Unfortunately not many of our tracks produce good racing week in and week out.

A trapping contest followed by follow the leader for 4 laps is not what most supporters want.

[WestGorton1884]

If Belle Vue can't make a success of things  with that race track and those facilities ,

then the sport in this country really is in trouble ...

[woodenspoon]

Mentioning facilities, is there any news as to when the proposed permanent toilets will be installed at the South Stand. The stadium is great , just a pity it isn't fully finished off.

[martinmauger]

6 hours ago, PHILIPRISING said:

Along with a terrific race track which, ultimately, is what really matters. 

You're right there Phil, more than decent circuit.  Keep saying to myself "self, you really MUST get across to Belle Vue sometime" ....

[acef]

18 hours ago, PHILIPRISING said:

Along with a terrific race track which, ultimately, is what really matters. 

I can’t agree with that. I fully understand why your saying it, but I don’t think it matters anymore.

The sport here has been so grossly mismanaged, the quality of racing matters not a jot.

The sport itself. What it represents. Everything it does. It’s done.

BV have had this venue for 3 seasons, arguably the best track on the planet, in a huge catchment area and it’s done the grand total of f&£k all except cost the tax payer money.

It’s a white elephant and paints a really accurate picture of the absolute mess speedway is in on these shores.

[acef]

18 hours ago, waytogo28 said:

Speedway certainly doesn't have 10% of the pull it had a generation ago. The set up within Manchester is perfect as is the stadium and track and if this was Poland it would be copied in 10 -15 places. Speedway in the UK has fallen into a whirlpool of disinterest and may survive after the Big Reshuffle in a semi pro or amateur sport.  The NSS was sadly born 15 or 20 years too late.

It’ll not survive in a semi pro environment, certainly not on a large scale. There is just too much cost involved now. 

It will become an elite sport for rich people, literally being watched on grass routes.

The only way it can work on a grander scale is by putting bums on seats and increasing revenue, but the reputation is so shot now we have long passed any chance of actually growing the product.

Its a bag waiting to go in the trash can.

[acef]

12 hours ago, woodenspoon said:

Mentioning facilities, is there any news as to when the proposed permanent toilets will be installed at the South Stand. The stadium is great , just a pity it isn't fully finished off.

That’s just the council penny pinching in a people funded project. It’s absolutely natural in that they need to control costs. Unfortunately the stadium isn’t self sufficient and doesn’t know yet, how to pay for itself.

For as long as that remains the case, it will remain a skeleton in some parts.

A huge, uncontrollable cost in this project is the rent and has been all along. When you commit so much money out of the tax payers pocket to build it, it absolutely needs to deliver and do so very quickly. 

The council have covered their end, and that is to the detriment of the clubs owners who have again found themselves severely out of pocket.

I would love to the see the groundwork in terms of how they will actually make this venture pay in a sport with ever rising costs and increasingly declining footfall.

[mikebv]

Had a bad day acef?

To be fair cannot argue with the sentiments of your last three posts....

The racing standard nowadays is largely irrelevant to the level of crowds watching in so much that the only people who can see any decline (if there actually is any) are those who go regularly...

And as they are very much the diehards of the sport, who still attend regardless of what is put in front of them, they are obviously content with what they see....

I would suggest anyone new to the sport would still be initially 'wowed' by the sport at any track with any standard of racing..

It would only be over a matter of time that they could then become opinionated as to whether the racing was as good as they first went or not and decide to continue paying to watch...

The initial 'wow factor' is there at every track, the bigger problem is that not enough of the local conurbations know about the sport to attend, or plenty of them have tried the sport regularly previously, and given it up due to its Mickey Mouse operating model..

The NSS delivers racing far superior to most and infinitely more so than the 'dog bowl' ever did..

So why isn't it full every week?

2.5 Million people live in Grt Manchester, all within 45 mins drive from the NSS. Which is 5 mins out of Mcr City Centre for those who use public transport..

I would suggest 2.4 Million of them have no clue (or at best very little clue) who the Belle Vue Aces are, or indeed, what Speedway is..

Thats the biggest problem the Aces have..

And that situation is I would say replicated around the country..

The standard of racing is irrelevant if hardly anyone knows it's happening in the first place..

 

[Halifaxtiger]

2 hours ago, acef said:

That’s just the council penny pinching in a people funded project. It’s absolutely natural in that they need to control costs. Unfortunately the stadium isn’t self sufficient and doesn’t know yet, how to pay for itself.

For as long as that remains the case, it will remain a skeleton in some parts.

A huge, uncontrollable cost in this project is the rent and has been all along. When you commit so much money out of the tax payers pocket to build it, it absolutely needs to deliver and do so very quickly. 

The council have covered their end, and that is to the detriment of the clubs owners who have again found themselves severely out of pocket.

I would love to the see the groundwork in terms of how they will actually make this venture pay in a sport with ever rising costs and increasingly declining footfall.

Ian Thomas apparently told Tim Stone - in respect of the Queensway Stadium, Newport -  that you don't own a corner shop and open it one day a week. He's right.

The trick for the NSS is to make maximum use of the facility and not be tied to speedway alone. I'll be very surprised if that isn't part of the plan and, indeed, will have been the whole time. There's no doubt that it is a fantastic for speedway  but that just isn't enough.

I am aware that Isle of Wight use Smallbrook for other events - a pop concert has been held there for the last two years, and its nothing like the size of the NSS - while Somerset use their car parking area for all sorts of other  activities including auctions and  car boot sales. There's no reason why any other club that owns their facility can't do the same.

The fact that the stadium still has temporary toilets and temporary terracing (which apparently costs a packet) suggests the council haven't covered their end. Given their apparent determination to impose non disclosure agreements and suppress documentation the one thing they are most certainly trying to cover is their back. 

It can be argued that the quality of racing isn't enough, and I'd agree. To counter that, just imagine how many would be there if it was rubbish. 

 

[OveFundinFan]

3 hours ago, Halifaxtiger said:

Ian Thomas apparently told Tim Stone - in respect of the Queensway Stadium, Newport -  that you don't own a corner shop and open it one day a week. He's right.

The trick for the NSS is to make maximum use of the facility and not be tied to speedway alone. I'll be very surprised if that isn't part of the plan and, indeed, will have been the whole time. There's no doubt that it is a fantastic for speedway  but that just isn't enough.

I am aware that Isle of Wight use Smallbrook for other events - a pop concert has been held there for the last two years, and its nothing like the size of the NSS - while Somerset use their car parking area for all sorts of other  activities including auctions and  car boot sales. There's no reason why any other club that owns their facility can't do the same.

The fact that the stadium still has temporary toilets and temporary terracing (which apparently costs a packet) suggests the council haven't covered their end. Given their apparent determination to impose non disclosure agreements and suppress documentation the one thing they are most certainly trying to cover is their back. 

It can be argued that the quality of racing isn't enough, and I'd agree. To counter that, just imagine how many would be there if it was rubbish. 

 

It was always the plan to use NSS for other purposes, that’s why the centre green has been marked out as a pitch since virtually day one. Weddings were proposed, perhaps there has been , I don’t know. The function room is there for events 7 days a week I would have thought. Someone needs to manage and promote this side of management t, and I don’t know whose responsibility that is.

what are the temporary terracing you mention in your 4th paragraph?

[Halifaxtiger]

2 hours ago, OveFundinFan said:

It was always the plan to use NSS for other purposes, that’s why the centre green has been marked out as a pitch since virtually day one. Weddings were proposed, perhaps there has been , I don’t know. The function room is there for events 7 days a week I would have thought. Someone needs to manage and promote this side of management t, and I don’t know whose responsibility that is.

what are the temporary terracing you mention in your 4th paragraph?

South stand...………….unless its been there so long it is no longer temporary !!

[SteveLyric2]

Great to see Mark Lemon in attendance at Darcy Ward's wedding in Brisbane on Friday - plus loads of other speedway friends and family from around the World.

[iwright71]

On ‎2‎/‎1‎/‎2019 at 8:10 PM, geoff58 said:

you know nothing the club were given £70k last year by eastlands trust who run the stadium for youth set up & catering services if you have any concerns i suggest you e-mail adrian smith and he will put right on a few things don't listen to idle gossip makes you look silly !!

That's your 2nd post in a row which has started  with "you know nothing" Its probably right, I'm just making observations on what I see and read. Including a local councillor in the Man Evening News quoted as saying " I absolutely support the principle of ensuring a thriving local business economy but unfortunately this has proved to be a failing initiative on more than one occasion. There are no viable plans for this money to be returned and we cannot afford to sink any more money into a business that shows no sign of growth despite public injections of nearly 9 million "  I think reading the last few pages of this topic that most non protectionist Belle Vue fans realise the ongoing financial issues at the NSS

[colin wood]

To put things into perspective regarding the cost of the NSS it's been reported the cost to repair Manchester Town Hall will be upwards of 250 million.I think the stadium was built cheap for what was involved.Any new stadiums being built today will be costly no matter what sport it's for. The NSS is a world class racetrack , and for the sake of speedway in this country deserves to succeed.

[mtommo]

I see Dimitri berge has quit Somerset is he still doing aces ?I

 

Edited February 3, 2019 by mtommo