AGM November 2018

[SPEEDY69]

I think the Ltd company idea is a good one.  It could mean that losses across clubs could be absorbed against profit to reduce tax bills even further, I'm no expert but could clubs become franchisees of the BSPA?  I really hope we see the end of PL number 1s in the Championship.

[Tigerblade]

11 hours ago, Chris116 said:

Yes, I know that but so depressed that I am getting upset about everything. 

Speedway and Stock Car racing have been my life and having retired they are no longer very easy to get to. Speedway due to a lack of tracks near London and Stock Cars due to being infested by Bangers that I hate. 

I really am going to have to consider getting a car but having not driven for fifteen years I am not sure it is a good idea. Totally depressed. 

 

Whilst it saddens me as much as the next fan, London has hardly had any action in almost the last 30 years, and none since 2005  (I don't really class Rye or Lakeside as central London)  But the reasons for this are not all down to the current BSPA. 

[Grand Central]

The saddest part really is that this is probably the best outcome of an AGM that was ever going to be possible.

Rather like Mrs Mays deal is. Though it pains me greatly to say it.

I know just about everyone wanted more or bettter. But there was never any true consensus as to what that 'better' was. And the people actually involved can only deal with the situation as it is today. The real Politik.

The last thing speedway needs is a rash of supporter resignations.

We are better than Cabinet Ministers, surely.

 

 

Edited November 15, 2018 by Grand Central

[THE DEAN MACHINE]

It’s like we don’t matter 

[moxey63]

15 hours ago, SFTGNigel said:

Oh come on, in a time of absolute crisis for the sport the message from the AGM is "Everything's rosy" and the sport will largely carry on as it is...over the edge of a cliff. 

 

I can see tracks folding in the next two years at a faster rate than present Cabinet ministers are resigning.   

[mikebv]

49 minutes ago, SPEEDY69 said:

I think the Ltd company idea is a good one.  It could mean that losses across clubs could be absorbed against profit to reduce tax bills even further, I'm no expert but could clubs become franchisees of the BSPA?  I really hope we see the end of PL number 1s in the Championship.

It also may help in a collective marketing of the sport and a share out of any profit delivered from 'official' merchandise sales too..

Generic SGB merchandise, clothing, prog boards, badges car stickers etc etc etc all with the individual tracks insignia on them..

A much better margin would be delivered if all clubs collectively purchased these products from manufacturers rather than all do it on a small time basis individually. With profits from every sale (wherever it takes place) shared out amongst the whole leagues teams..

US Sports in particular use this strategy well....

And maybe instead of doing their marketing at a local level individually they will start to pool resources to get their SGB brand out nationally..

The Sport needs to work together to protect every track now I would suggest as not too many more can disappear before its effectively game over. So strength in numbers would appear key...

One for all, and all for one!...

[Chris116]

51 minutes ago, Tigerblade said:

Whilst it saddens me as much as the next fan, London has hardly had any action in almost the last 30 years, and none since 2005  (I don't really class Rye or Lakeside as central London)  But the reasons for this are not all down to the current BSPA. 

I agree that Rye House is outside the M25 and TfL Travelcard areas but it was under £5 on the train for me from the boundary of Zone 6 and was an easy journey (District Line from Southfields to Edgware Road then Circle or H&C to Liverpool Street where I changed to Greater Anglia). 

I think the thing is that the loss of Rye House to bikes has made the recent loss of Wimbledon to cars even worse for me. I have followed both sports all my life although in the case of a clash the cars normally were my first choice (I missed the visit of Belle Vue to Rye House for what turned out to be the last meeting due to the Superstox being at Arlington that evening). The loss of Wimbledon gave me an added reason to go to Rye House as I just love oval racing, now I have neither and it looks like Perry Barr is going to be the easiest track to watch speedway at but will mean arriving home at 3am!

[ragdoll64]

4 hours ago, g13webb said:

Last week we have the national magazine devoting all its pages highlighting the problems with British Speedway,     We had Promoters, Fans, Riders , Celebrities  all opinionizing on the problems with this sport.    Amazingly a week later, at their annual meeting, the BSPA  contradicts everyone ideas and does nothing.  

Just about sums everything up.....  

Yeah, and then come out with they want to introduce a National Supporters Club Group so that they can take on board fans' ideas and opinions........laughable right enough......

Edited November 15, 2018 by ragdoll64

[Big Al]

2 hours ago, iainb said:

I think that's exactly the reason for this. Much as I dislike Chapman if he can get control of a 4th club he has majority control he can at least make and implement decisions as opposed to the current paralysis in the sport and I see this as being the first step. It could be a very shrewd investment as if he can then actually make the sport into something he'll have a very saleable asset. It's a big IF though!

Can see BSPA becoming basically Chapman's own company, with a controlling interest in the Prem league. He's probably seen the chance and decided to go for it and if others want to ride along then fine. The decisions of Somerset and Damien Bates maybe show they don't want to be part of this, would prefer to hedge their bets and wait and see what happens. I think the divergence of the Prem and Champ leagues is going to be much greater than the respective strength of the teams.

[IainB]

10 minutes ago, Big Al said:

Can see BSPA becoming basically Chapman's own company, with a controlling interest in the Prem league. He's probably seen the chance and decided to go for it and if others want to ride along then fine. The decisions of Somerset and Damien Bates maybe show they don't want to be part of this, would prefer to hedge their bets and wait and see what happens. I think the divergence of the Prem and Champ leagues is going to be much greater than the respective strength of the teams.

I think you're spot on

[2ndbendbeerhut]

4 hours ago, g13webb said:

Last week we have the national magazine devoting all its pages highlighting the problems with British Speedway,     We had Promoters, Fans, Riders , Celebrities  all opinionizing on the problems with this sport.    Amazingly a week later, at their annual meeting, the BSPA  contradicts everyone ideas and does nothing.  

Just about sums everything up.....  

i said at the time that reading the SS last week would be wasting my time.... and so it has proved. 

[MattK]

1 hour ago, SPEEDY69 said:

I think the Ltd company idea is a good one.  It could mean that losses across clubs could be absorbed against profit to reduce tax bills even further, I'm no expert but could clubs become franchisees of the BSPA?  I really hope we see the end of PL number 1s in the Championship.

I can't see that happening for two reasons. Firstly, most clubs operate at a loss and rely on the generosity of their owners to cover the losses. Therefore there will be far more  losses to offset than profits. Secondly, it could be massively open to abuse if losses are pooled as individual club owners are no longer accepting all the risk.

As for tax bills, I don't believe any club makes a net profit in the medium term, so tax isn't an issue.

[moxey63]

26 minutes ago, 2ndbendbeerhut said:

i said at the time that reading the SS last week would be wasting my time.... and so it has proved. 

It's like finding the TV listings for all the Christmas programmes when all the festivities and good will have vanished.

Reading last week's Star, however, just as some of the ideas on this forum show, speedway fans each have their own view of what'll make speedway great again. Some are good, some went over my head,  but it is the promoters' money and investment. So I guess they will remain guarded. It hasn't sunk to a level yet where promoters will take a blind bit of notice, as the AGM showed. By the time they realise fans are important, they are already halfway down the road to going bust and the shutters are being pulled down at their track.  

Edited November 15, 2018 by moxey63

[Phil The Ace]

I'm all for buster saving the club's, and giving us a top league, well done him. BUT..... what if this scenario happens. 1 match left in season, Peterborough 5th facing Ipswich at Ipswich who are last, a win for Peterborough sees them into play offs. Buster will throw the match, how is that fair 

[uk_martin]

3 hours ago, SPEEDY69 said:

I think the Ltd company idea is a good one.  It could mean that losses across clubs could be absorbed against profit to reduce tax bills even further, I'm no expert but could clubs become franchisees of the BSPA?  I really hope we see the end of PL number 1s in the Championship.

I said many years ago that Speedway should adopt a MLB / NFL / NBA style franchising operating model, with shares in the holding company being divided amongst the promoters in proportion to the value that they bring to the party at the outset. That way with everyone having a stake in the prospects of every franchisee, maybe there will be some decision making for the common good rather than promoters not being able to see beyond their own stadium car park, as is the case now.

[moxey63]

13 minutes ago, Phil The Ace said:

I'm all for buster saving the club's, and giving us a top league, well done him. BUT..... what if this scenario happens. 1 match left in season, Peterborough 5th facing Ipswich at Ipswich who are last, a win for Peterborough sees them into play offs. Buster will throw the match, how is that fair 

Come on, you're being silly. That wouldn't happen in speedway . And if it did, the problem will be averted when there are fewer than five teams to allow someone to get this fifth place? To me, it seems this Buster Chapman geezer has his own real-life version of that speedway PC game we're all yearning for. He can get any results he wants, maybe.   

Edited November 15, 2018 by moxey63

[Sings4Speedway]

11 minutes ago, Phil The Ace said:

I'm all for buster saving the club's, and giving us a top league, well done him. BUT..... what if this scenario happens. 1 match left in season, Peterborough 5th facing Ipswich at Ipswich who are last, a win for Peterborough sees them into play offs. Buster will throw the match, how is that fair 

Of course that won't happen because Lynn will be 4th at the time  thing to really be concerned about is when all three make the play offs....although bloody Poole would still probably win. 

[1 valve]

On a number of occasions the question has been asked "can two clubs run in the same league even though they are owned by the same person".  I am presuming this question has been asked because there is a fear of self interest or means to manipulate rules and situations given that "voting" on such matters would hardly be democratic on a one man one vote scenario

The (apparently correct) answer has been "yes so long as different promoters are involved" - suggesting a degree of independence from an owners influence.

Yet last week Damien Bates "owner" of Sheffield & Leicester was reported in print as saying " I am waiting to see what happens at the AGM before deciding on which leagues Leicester & Sheffield will compete" Now this statement hardly sounds like different promoters creating an independent culture within speedway. More that. Listen, you may be the promoters, but I am the owner and what I say goes - me dog you tail get wagging.

Now unless somebody can explain how having the same owner of two teams in the same league will never be subject to control of the owner and their (biased) view then it would appear that it is best to presume the sport is indeed run by owners whilst promoters/co promoters of the jointly owned clubs are merely the yes men of the influential few.

If this is the case, just come on out and admit, owners run the clubs, make the big decisions and the promoters merely promote the events. there's nothing wrong with this nor anything we supporters can do about it.  But please unless there is a clear explanation which disproves this thinking, stop continuing to insult our intelligence (or maybe even your own) with a smoke and mirrors attempt to convince the paying public otherwise.

 

 

 

[Humphrey Appleby]

5 minutes ago, 1 valve said:

Now unless somebody can explain how having the same owner of two teams in the same league will never be subject to control of the owner and their (biased) view then it would appear that it is best to presume the sport is indeed run by owners whilst promoters/co promoters of the jointly owned clubs are merely the yes men of the influential few.

 

Of course, in a proper sport it would be unacceptable for the same owner to have controlling influences in more than one team in the same team, which is why virtually every (if not all) credible sports competition disallows it. However, speedway is already a joke with teams borrowing riders (guests) from other teams in the same league, that it probably makes little difference in practice. 

This said, I can see the benefits of running a league as single corporate entity, because that will allow for better control of costs, and better competitive balance. Provided there's a separation of the league ownership and team management once the riders have been doled out, the contracts agreed, and competition starts, then there's no reason why it shouldn't work.

[1 valve]

2 hours ago, MattK said:

Firstly, most clubs operate at a loss and rely on the generosity of their owners to cover the losses.

So we are asked to believe. That's why some owners take on more than one club, because they like to loose even more.

smoke & mirrors, smoke & mirrors