AGM November 2018

[moxey63]

20 hours ago, orion said:

One thing for sure if history repeats itself and there is one big league the fans wont want it after about 3 weeks .Just like fixed race nights .

Of course, fans would like to see more teams visiting and a bigger league. For one, the stay at home ones (like me) would love the chance of seeing different teams on television than we have had the last decade or so, with the league dwindling to seven.

In 1995 and 1996 when one big league was tried, it wasn't really given much of a chance. But we were in a better position then than we are now. I recall the strong team unwilling to let their riders go. I'd say, never mind the unwillingness, they must be forced to release riders. Back in 1995 I remember the likes of Middlesbrough crying out for help. But the top teams were holding on to their talent because nobody had the balls to act.

A big league would work. But we need a firm hand to make it work.

[Daniel Smith]

People seem to be missing what I'm saying. I'm not asking for standardisation, the equipment they have already would be ok to continue with. What I'm saying is pay the rider's less and they're less likely to be servicing with PJR and equivalent. They'll stop buying expensive frames etc every year and run equipment 2-3 years instead etc.

Pay the rider's substantially less, if a rider brings the best equipment possible and scores maximum after maximum they'll still lose money. Eventually they'll have to find better sponsors, get a 2nd job, ride a different country or quit all together. 

The wages HAVE TO BE SLASHED.

[foamfence]

6 minutes ago, Daniel Smith said:

People seem to be missing what I'm saying. I'm not asking for standardisation, the equipment they have already would be ok to continue with. What I'm saying is pay the rider's less and they're less likely to be servicing with PJR and equivalent. They'll stop buying expensive frames etc every year and run equipment 2-3 years instead etc.

Pay the rider's substantially less, if a rider brings the best equipment possible and scores maximum after maximum they'll still lose money. Eventually they'll have to find better sponsors, get a 2nd job, ride a different country or quit all together. 

The wages HAVE TO BE SLASHED.

There is no guarantee that it would work, lots of young riders pack in because they can't afford good equipment, even though they don't actually need it at lower levels and wouldn't have the skill to exploit it. What you suggest might well happen anyway as even less go to watch.

[waytogo28]

My hope pre-AGM is that some, many, all promoters have read this thread if nothing else on here. I do not expect them to comment but I pray that they have read fans feedback. They are so fortunate to have it on hand, free of charge. We will see if they want to improve the UK sport or their own clubs winning chances.

[Humphrey Appleby]

39 minutes ago, moxey63 said:

A big league would work. But we need a firm hand to make it work.

Would only work if costs were cut dramatically.

The 'one big league' was a failure because the economic circumstances between tracks were so different, and whilst the reluctance of some teams to release No.1 standard riders didn't help, I think more than few tracks couldn't afford them anyway. That experiment caused several tracks to drop out, and it was only the advent of the 'Conference League' that allowed them to keep running.

You're always going to need some sort of two-tier setup however you structure it.

[Fromafar]

1 hour ago, iris123 said:

Surely any speedway fan can instantly spot the difference between our sport and practically any other motor sport I can think of?

Meaning?

[iris123]

Meaning they ride/drive in one series where you can make rules to suit.They don’t ride in different leagues,often under different authorities and then in international meetings.If they only exclusively rode in one league or in one country it would be as easy as in F1 or Formula Ford etc .And generally the cars bikes are supplied by the team at top level at least and if someone wants to drive in Formula Ford and also do Drag Racing then that is his choice

Edited November 10, 2018 by iris123

[martinmauger]

I happily accept both that David Howe and Chris Harris know way more about the costs of riding speedway than many on here, including me, but I'd query David's price of tyres: £45 each.  I'm happy to be proved wrong but I thought tyres were circa £30 a pop ?...

[MrMungo]

15 minutes ago, martinmauger said:

I happily accept both that David Howe and Chris Harris know way more about the costs of riding speedway than many on here, including me, but I'd query David's price of tyres: £45 each.  I'm happy to be proved wrong but I thought tyres were circa £30 a pop ?...

Was £42 the last time I bought a tyre a few years ago, so £45 seems bang on the money to me.

[phillwhitewasmad]

16 minutes ago, martinmauger said:

I happily accept both that David Howe and Chris Harris know way more about the costs of riding speedway than many on here, including me, but I'd query David's price of tyres: £45 each.  I'm happy to be proved wrong but I thought tyres were circa £30 a pop ?...

Anlas tyre currently £49 +vat

mitas tyres currently £36.50 +vat 

[Trees]

3 hours ago, Byker Biker said:

There is an obvious solution to this bit it would just be facetious.

Realistically British Speedway ought bite the bullet now whilst the European leagues carry on until their sponsorship, civic grants, sports association funding, tv rights and intellectual property rights dry up.  Poland is already working behind the scenes on standardised equipment and hopefully they'll make a better fist of it than the BSPA. At one time this country was working on the development of rev limiters that would only have reduced the hammer on the engines at the starts, some riders refused to test them in after meeting rides and some promoters had no belief in them whatsoever. The guys who were developing them got binned by the BSPA who 2 years later threw six figure sums to launch the Gerhardt project! Rev limiters would have cost about £180 a bike less for some depending on the ignition system already in use, £40,000 would have got every rider 2 each instead of hundreds of thousands on new engines at £4500 + vat. The BSPA could have committed itself to a development budget of less than £20k and an ongoing subsidy for 2 years of 50% of the cost of replacements for existing and new riders.

The argument "why should the UK be different" has been used against carburetors, tyres, silencers and upright engines over the years so we have the same equipment as the rest of the world with significantly (in most cases) less revenue to support it's introduction and maintenance. A bit like the Concorde, magnificent engineering and technology but a revolutionary disaster.

Interesting that Poland are working on standardising engines, I guess British promoters know this? 

[ch958]

2 hours ago, Humphrey Appleby said:

Would only work if costs were cut dramatically.

The 'one big league' was a failure because the economic circumstances between tracks were so different, and whilst the reluctance of some teams to release No.1 standard riders didn't help, I think more than few tracks couldn't afford them anyway. That experiment caused several tracks to drop out, and it was only the advent of the 'Conference League' that allowed them to keep running.

You're always going to need some sort of two-tier setup however you structure it.

well they could be forced if the dog was wagging the tail and not the reverse. You would simply be allowed only 1 rider over a certain average, thereby sharing out the talent.

Its never that easy of course but .....

[Gemini]

7 hours ago, Daniel Smith said:

The only way to bring equipment standards to a more acceptable level, and encouraging future rider's is to force a wage drop. If Chris Harris believes he can't earn enough on £100 a point he'll have to quite or buy cheaper equipment. It's that simple.

I have said this before but when riding for Coventry ~ which covers a number of years ~ Chris used to spend months trying to get the right set ups on his machines at the beginning of the season and then by July he would be flying until the end of the season.  So why was it necessary to then get rid of these and start again the next season on new equipment , which meant another frustrating session of trying to get the right set-ups. Seems a crazy waste of money to me. 

[iris123]

22 minutes ago, ch958 said:

well they could be forced if the dog was wagging the tail and not the reverse. You would simply be allowed only 1 rider over a certain average, thereby sharing out the talent.

Its never that easy of course but .....

In a way that causes another problem though.Say one or two teams produce their own talent and are forced year after year to release one of their own good youngsters.The promoter and fans are p’d off with that situation.....

The sport has got itself in such a situation where sorting one problem generally only starts another

Edited November 10, 2018 by iris123

[Byker Biker]

1 hour ago, Trees said:

Interesting that Poland are working on standardising engines, I guess British promoters know this? 

British promoters pioneered it! The Poles are working with Marcel Gerhardt so the project isn't dead yet.

[OldRacer]

35 minutes ago, iris123 said:

In a way that causes another problem though.Say one or two teams produce their own talent and are forced year after year to release one of their own good youngsters.The promoter and fans are p’d off with that situation.....

The sport has got itself in such a situation where sorting one problem generally only starts another

There is already hardly any continuity of riders year after year.  Only one rider above a certain average wouldn't create a new problem.

[The Third Man]

38 minutes ago, iris123 said:

In a way that causes another problem though.Say one or two teams produce their own talent and are forced year after year to release one of their own good youngsters.The promoter and fans are p’d off with that situation.....

The sport has got itself in such a situation where sorting one problem generally only starts another

Sounds like rider control;, which is how things used to be

[THE DEAN MACHINE]

32 minutes ago, Byker Biker said:

British promoters pioneered it! The Poles are working with Marcel Gerhardt so the project isn't dead yet.

There is also the jawa with a 2 valve head that was used at a meeting in Torun a few weeks back, they got some of the riders to ride them , lindback was one rider, they perform and react very well with the only noticeable difference being they loose revs of the start line but talking to a rider that rode them he said they were fun to ride, as pig headed as polish speedway seems to the rest of the world they are open to ideas and give them a decent try 

[The Third Man]

4 minutes ago, THE DEAN MACHINE said:

There is also the jawa with a 2 valve head that was used at a meeting in Torun a few weeks back, they got some of the riders to ride them , lindback was one rider, they perform and react very well with the only noticeable difference being they loose revs of the start line but talking to a rider that rode them he said they were fun to ride, as pig headed as polish speedway seems to the rest of the world they are open to ideas and give them a decent try 

Could that head go on an existing engine?

[THE DEAN MACHINE]

Just now, The Third Man said:

Could that head go on an existing engine?

On a jawa yes but no reason why GM couldn’t make a 2 valve head for their engine