Gemini Posted November 9, 2018 Report Share Posted November 9, 2018 6 hours ago, orion said: Yea look how many fans getting rid of double points brought back lol .Remember when people said they knew people that had left because of that one reason .another speedway myth gone. I wondered why The White Knight had disappeared. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikebv Posted November 10, 2018 Report Share Posted November 10, 2018 (edited) 10 hours ago, dontforgetthefueltapsbruv said: If you put that £80pp cap in place then quite probably even those you list wouldnt be taking a huge cut David isnt the only one Ive heard say they are earning the same or less per point than 10 years ago I would suggest they are very fortunate to be getting even the same money considering most tracks will have seen a big reduction in fan base during this time... If riders are getting the same money, given the fan base drop, it can only be down to the inflation busting admission cost increases dealt to those who still do attend... That wonderful vicious circle British Speedway has put itself in... ie Attendances drop due to ridiculous operating model being followed. So they put up the price of admission to those who still attend. Meaning attendances then drop further, so they put up the price of admission again to those who still attend. Meaning attendances then drop further so they put up the price of admission again to those etc etc etc... Any business person with even a shred of acumen would always find a way of reducing their costs before taking the decision to pass on cost increases to their customers through increased prices.. My company has paid out an extra 10% in payroll over the past 18 months to meet its legal obligations on earnings. I didn't suddenly get an extra 10% of customers to pay for it.... Therefore costs had to be reduced elsewhere in the business and a reduction in workforce achieved through a review of its operating model to deliver better productivity.... I am amazed that Speedway still pays out 14 salaries per meeting when it cannot afford to do so, yet never changes the team number or the amount of heats they pay out for.. I am even more amazed that they put out big money to GP stars who put hardly one person on the gate. The sport is down to the die hards now who will go anyway and no disrespect to any rider, but long gone are the days of 'real Stars' like Collins, Mauger, Olsen, Penhall etc who would tangibly put extra 'bums on seats' when they visited your home track.. Hope the AGM goes well. I presume the first thing on the agenda will be how much admissions costs will increase by this year...? Thats as long as they don't have to discuss first up which biscuits to have. Let's hope that's been settled well in advance of the meeting... Edited November 10, 2018 by mikebv 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foamfence Posted November 10, 2018 Report Share Posted November 10, 2018 7 hours ago, frigbo said: Just the most important people then.... Chris Harris' comments this week absolutely epitomise how far removed from reality most riders are - their selfish approach is a huge factor in the mess UK speedway finds itself in. I am one of the long-term fans who has been disillusioned by so many things (particularly the way the sport is run for everyone but the fans) that I'm not sure I have anything vaguely resembling enthusiasm to give a toss if/when they are fixed. They need to address equipment costs, bikes are too expensive to buy and maintain but you don't read that, just the need for more doubling up and guest rides. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel Smith Posted November 10, 2018 Report Share Posted November 10, 2018 2 hours ago, foamfence said: They need to address equipment costs, bikes are too expensive to buy and maintain but you don't read that, just the need for more doubling up and guest rides. The only way to bring equipment standards to a more acceptable level, and encouraging future rider's is to force a wage drop. If Chris Harris believes he can't earn enough on £100 a point he'll have to quite or buy cheaper equipment. It's that simple. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iris123 Posted November 10, 2018 Report Share Posted November 10, 2018 (edited) 1 hour ago, Daniel Smith said: The only way to bring equipment standards to a more acceptable level, and encouraging future rider's is to force a wage drop. If Chris Harris believes he can't earn enough on £100 a point he'll have to quite or buy cheaper equipment. It's that simple. Surely this has to be done across the board in world speedway or it will never work and is there a call in other countries for such a move? If we have a different type of bike in the UK it won't help much.Foreign riders will need a new bike for the UK and they will most probably ask the cub to cough up for the funding,when they sign.Plus you put young British riders at a disadvantage when they ride abroad.Established riders can afford numerous bikes,but a young rider going to Eurpe for an international meeting riding his 'cheap' british model will be out of his depth.I mean if a bike can be cheaply produced and still have the same performance of an expensive one,then a manufacturer is missing a trick big time in undercutting rivals and taking a large chunk of the market....... We will also end up with people asking why foreign riders are getting supplied with a new bike and not young Brits.A self made problem,yet again Edited November 10, 2018 by iris123 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Third Man Posted November 10, 2018 Report Share Posted November 10, 2018 All the things suggested one big league wage caps standardised equipment will work if you don't have one promoter who tries to get round it, and that's the problem, promoters looking after themselves and not the greater good I am afraid there is no solution to the basic problem so there cant be a solution to the other problems 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattK Posted November 10, 2018 Report Share Posted November 10, 2018 1 hour ago, Daniel Smith said: The only way to bring equipment standards to a more acceptable level, and encouraging future rider's is to force a wage drop. If Chris Harris believes he can't earn enough on £100 a point he'll have to quite or buy cheaper equipment. It's that simple. It doesn't work like that though. All it takes is one rider to break ranks and invest in the best equipment and that rider has an instant advantage. The other riders then have a choice, invest themselves or settle for being second best. In a sport where you are paid by the point the latter will never happen. The only way to cut equipment costs is by introducing standards across all riders in a league. I have no idea of the ins and outs, but it really shouldn't be that difficult and it seems in the best interests of both riders and clubs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enotian Posted November 10, 2018 Report Share Posted November 10, 2018 55 minutes ago, iris123 said: Surely this has to be done across the board in world speedway or it will never work and is there a call in other countries for such a move? If we have a different type of bike in the UK it won't help much.Foreign riders will need a new bike for the UK and they will most probably ask the cub to cough up for the funding,when they sign.Plus you put young British riders at a disadvantage when they ride abroad.Established riders can afford numerous bikes,but a young rider going to Eurpe for an international meeting riding his 'cheap' british model will be out of his depth.I mean if a bike can be cheaply produced and still have the same performance of an expensive one,then a manufacturer is missing a trick big time in undercutting rivals and taking a large chunk of the market....... We will also end up with people asking why foreign riders are getting supplied with a new bike and not young Brits.A self made problem,yet again Exactly. This is a sport after all so no matter what restrictions are in place some will be able to invest more than others to gain an advantage. The worst strategic choice made was to reduce the gap in standards between the top two divisions making the sport unaffordable for promoters, riders and supporters alike. As well as diluting the product for those who could afford it. All facilitated by doubling up. Disaster. The best strategic choice was to concentrate on youth development. Surely now's the time to reduce the standard of the Championship so it's a stepping stone for those young riders and part time 'old hands' making it affordable for promoters, riders and potentially supporters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fromafar Posted November 10, 2018 Report Share Posted November 10, 2018 15 minutes ago, MattK said: It doesn't work like that though. All it takes is one rider to break ranks and invest in the best equipment and that rider has an instant advantage. The other riders then have a choice, invest themselves or settle for being second best. In a sport where you are paid by the point the latter will never happen. The only way to cut equipment costs is by introducing standards across all riders in a league. I have no idea of the ins and outs, but it really shouldn't be that difficult and it seems in the best interests of both riders and clubs. I agree regarding standardising equipment ,virtually all Bike and Car sports have introduced it into their sport with success why can't speedway.Self interest rules and it killing the sport. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THE DEAN MACHINE Posted November 10, 2018 Report Share Posted November 10, 2018 1 minute ago, Fromafar said: I agree regarding standardising equipment ,virtually all Bike and Car sports have introduced it into their sport with success why can't speedway.Self interest rules and it killing the sport. Because the tail wags the dog 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattK Posted November 10, 2018 Report Share Posted November 10, 2018 11 minutes ago, THE DEAN MACHINE said: Because the tail wags the dog What would be the main objections to standardisation from a rider's perspective? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moxey63 Posted November 10, 2018 Report Share Posted November 10, 2018 (edited) I read a few comments recently by Chris Harris. It does seem the sport owes him a living. Let's look back. It made him leave school without qualifications, he hasn't done a job apart from speedway in the 20 or so years since (it paid so well, even allowing for a winter rest) and says nowadays what little he earns from racing goes straight back into helping him carry on racing. The lad must be using foodbanks. Me, personally, I feel if the sport is now set up purely to benefit riders having enough meetings for various clubs so they can earn a decent living. And by catering for the riders this way it is alienating the fans, who are no longer attracted by the team ethic of the sport. Obviously, there are other matters to resolve, but this is one of them. Edited November 10, 2018 by moxey63 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveLyric2 Posted November 10, 2018 Report Share Posted November 10, 2018 The cost of having to get new/different equipment and the inability to sell the current stuff to anyone as they can't use it competitively. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayleigh Posted November 10, 2018 Report Share Posted November 10, 2018 2 hours ago, Daniel Smith said: The only way to bring equipment standards to a more acceptable level, and encouraging future rider's is to force a wage drop. If Chris Harris believes he can't earn enough on £100 a point he'll have to quite or buy cheaper equipment. It's that simple. Chris Harris on £100 per point? nothing like that at Rye House AND he didn't try most of the time, and according to Glasgow supporters we weren't the only one to suffer he selective efforts, yet when it came to Poole boy did he suddenly find the effort (could it be he hopes to secure next season with one of the best paying teams?)Just guessing 1 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buttons Posted November 10, 2018 Report Share Posted November 10, 2018 I posted this on the wrong thread so have re posted: It is obvious that British Speedway cannot afford the top riders with the wages and the big signing on fees they require. Something has to be done to bring the cost down for promoters and riders alike, although it may be a little late, when all costs starting rising and crowds starting dropping years back, action should have been taken then, but nothing of any consequence was done. Speedway in this country must take a step back, throw away the rule book and start again. Too many complicated rules for a simple sport that fans cannot understand (or is that the general idea I wonder). The sport has gone from a team sport to a sport of individuals, riders rushing off soon as the meeting has ended and not mixing with the supporters, and the presentation (if you can call it that) is abysmal. The cost is too expensive to take a family on a regular basis, although Speedway prides itself on being a family sport! The entrance fee for two adults and two kids, programme, car park and the kids will want burgers and drinks, not forgetting the adults say an average of £60-£80, plus their fuel to get their, how many young families can afford £240 or more a month, with a mortgage to pay etc. As soon as the crowds drop the promotions only answer is to put the entrance fee up. Thoughts. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THE DEAN MACHINE Posted November 10, 2018 Report Share Posted November 10, 2018 (edited) 2 hours ago, MattK said: What would be the main objections to standardisation from a rider's perspective? Change, a rider believes somehow that someone would be getting an advantage and they are not thinking about the future of the sport , the old argument about what would happen to all the current engines if we brought in some sort of standardized or different engine is about to be tested , GM has just brought out a new engine that looks completely different to current model, now the top guys will buy it and if it proves to be a winner then every one will have one within months and the GMs we use now will become obsolete , so what’s the difference ?the only difference is one way is enforced and the other is choice but either way it’s the same end result of the current engine being made obsolete except one way is good for the future of the sport and the other pushes up costs Edited November 10, 2018 by THE DEAN MACHINE 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
racers and royals Posted November 10, 2018 Report Share Posted November 10, 2018 26 minutes ago, Rayleigh said: Chris Harris on £100 per point? nothing like that at Rye House AND he didn't try most of the time, and according to Glasgow supporters we weren't the only one to suffer he selective efforts, yet when it came to Poole boy did he suddenly find the effort (could it be he hopes to secure next season with one of the best paying teams?)Just guessing If you think that Chris Harris wasn`t on over £100 per point at Rye house then you are living in cloud cuckoo land !!!!! 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Byker Biker Posted November 10, 2018 Report Share Posted November 10, 2018 1 hour ago, iris123 said: Surely this has to be done across the board in world speedway or it will never work and is there a call in other countries for such a move? If we have a different type of bike in the UK it won't help much.Foreign riders will need a new bike for the UK and they will most probably ask the cub to cough up for the funding,when they sign.Plus you put young British riders at a disadvantage when they ride abroad.Established riders can afford numerous bikes,but a young rider going to Eurpe for an international meeting riding his 'cheap' british model will be out of his depth.I mean if a bike can be cheaply produced and still have the same performance of an expensive one,then a manufacturer is missing a trick big time in undercutting rivals and taking a large chunk of the market....... We will also end up with people asking why foreign riders are getting supplied with a new bike and not young Brits.A self made problem,yet again There is an obvious solution to this bit it would just be facetious. Realistically British Speedway ought bite the bullet now whilst the European leagues carry on until their sponsorship, civic grants, sports association funding, tv rights and intellectual property rights dry up. Poland is already working behind the scenes on standardised equipment and hopefully they'll make a better fist of it than the BSPA. At one time this country was working on the development of rev limiters that would only have reduced the hammer on the engines at the starts, some riders refused to test them in after meeting rides and some promoters had no belief in them whatsoever. The guys who were developing them got binned by the BSPA who 2 years later threw six figure sums to launch the Gerhardt project! Rev limiters would have cost about £180 a bike less for some depending on the ignition system already in use, £40,000 would have got every rider 2 each instead of hundreds of thousands on new engines at £4500 + vat. The BSPA could have committed itself to a development budget of less than £20k and an ongoing subsidy for 2 years of 50% of the cost of replacements for existing and new riders. The argument "why should the UK be different" has been used against carburetors, tyres, silencers and upright engines over the years so we have the same equipment as the rest of the world with significantly (in most cases) less revenue to support it's introduction and maintenance. A bit like the Concorde, magnificent engineering and technology but a revolutionary disaster. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayleigh Posted November 10, 2018 Report Share Posted November 10, 2018 1 hour ago, racers and royals said: If you think that Chris Harris wasn`t on over £100 per point at Rye house then you are living in cloud cuckoo land !!!!! You misunderstand, he was on loads more than £100 per point, I also understand it was fixed amount per meeting but it would be entirely wrong to say how much on a public forum. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iris123 Posted November 10, 2018 Report Share Posted November 10, 2018 2 hours ago, Fromafar said: I agree regarding standardising equipment ,virtually all Bike and Car sports have introduced it into their sport with success why can't speedway.Self interest rules and it killing the sport. Surely any speedway fan can instantly spot the difference between our sport and practically any other motor sport I can think of? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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