AGM November 2018

[IainB]

5 minutes ago, Hodgy said:

That’s not what I was asking. We all know the numerous reasons British Speedway is where it is. Speedway in Poland grew rapidly and just interested in why we think this is. It hasn’t always been like that. 

I think they've always had pretty good crowds haven't they... The money came with the fall of communism, sponsorship, advertising etc. The money goes where the crowds are

[THE DEAN MACHINE]

9 hours ago, PHILIPRISING said:

THAT'S not what I said and as someone who has visited Polish speedway towns no doubt you know that. Of course there is a place for team speedway in the UK. It is the only type that can possibly work.

that is what you said , you said "that's not been the case for speedway in the uk for generations and will not change " I know its the only way forward but I was just quoting you saying it wont change, I have banged on about the importance of team identity for a while now but british speedway seems to think it doesn't matter

Edited November 6, 2018 by THE DEAN MACHINE

[PHILIPRISING]

10 minutes ago, THE DEAN MACHINE said:

that is what you said , you said "that's not been the case for speedway in the uk for generations and will not change " I know its the only way forward but I was just quoting you saying it wont change, I have banged on about the importance of team identity for a while now but british speedway seems to think it doesn't matter

WHAT won't change is that speedway will be the prime sporting activity in towns across even parts of the country without a professional soccer club and become synonymous with that town or city as it is in Poland and may have been in the UK after the war. That is what I was saying. Or trying to ...

[IainB]

9 minutes ago, PHILIPRISING said:

WHAT won't change is that speedway will be the prime sporting activity in towns across even parts of the country without a professional soccer club and become synonymous with that town or city as it is in Poland and may have been in the UK after the war. That is what I was saying. Or trying to ...

It won't change the way it's being run at the moment but surely that has to be the goal for clubs like Eastbourne, KL, Somerset etc with no major football team in the vicinity, it pains me to say it but there's only really Poole that are anywhere near to doing that

[mikebv]

17 minutes ago, THE DEAN MACHINE said:

that is what you said , you said "that's not been the case for speedway in the uk for generations and will not change " I know its the only way forward but I was just quoting you saying it wont change, I have banged on about the importance of team identity for a while now but british speedway seems to think it doesn't matter

It won't change now...

It can't...

That horse has well and truly bolted...

Riders it seems need to ride 60 to 80 meetings a year over here to make their money...

Even one 'big league' would only deliver around 40 to 50 with Cups, Shields, Play Offs etc..

Guest slots I presume form a significant part of their income and as we have seen by the way the Friday fixtures were decimated, guests are now an integral part of the British Speedway operating model and part of the business plan..

Team Speedway is all but a misnomer in the UK..

The sport itself can be great though so maybe time to just run it on an individual basis with Promoters buying up licenses to run as many times a year as they want or can negotiate with the landlord...

Eg Ten meetings at the NSS, ran at weekends and bank holidays, well promoted and backed with decent prize money must deliver a good crowd surely?

Ten 'proper' meetings with 3000 in attendance at an 'Event' would do the Sports reputation far more lasting good than running 20 meetings with almost zero credibility in front of circa 1500 each time...

Not quite time maybe to nail that lid down on the Team Speedway coffin but getting pretty close I would suggest..

[Ghosty]

One thing I think we all agree on is that: British Speedway supporters do not want the product that has been on offer the last few seasons i.e. team A + guest verses team B + guest this is the biggest reason for the drop in crowd numbers.

For 2019 riders must be loyal to their U.K. team & promoters loyal to their signed riders - no team changes @ the drop of a hat, fans may then see their team as "US" not just tonight's "7 select".

Also I would bring back for 2019 13 heats & a second half, not because it's better or worse than the current 15 heats, it would just be a change!   

[mikebv]

1 hour ago, Ghosty said:

One thing I think we all agree on is that: British Speedway supporters do not want the product that has been on offer the last few seasons i.e. team A + guest verses team B + guest this is the biggest reason for the drop in crowd numbers.

For 2019 riders must be loyal to their U.K. team & promoters loyal to their signed riders - no team changes @ the drop of a hat, fans may then see their team as "US" not just tonight's "7 select".

Also I would bring back for 2019 13 heats & a second half, not because it's better or worse than the current 15 heats, it would just be a change!   

All sentiments are correct, however it's too far gone for me..

British Speedway is now just a conduit for riders to earn money, hence so many guest appearances are made and doubling up is rife..

And to be fair. Why spend 20k on machinery if you are only going to earn £1500 a night 30 times a season?. Especially given the inherent risks in the way that money is made.

Cannot get itself out of the hole it has put itself in so more of the same is the only way forward.

It's in that perpetual (self created) vicious circle..

ie. Not enough fans attend due to the lack of credibility of so many meetings, which then prevents clubs being able to pay riders the type of money that would allow them to ride for one team only. (Or possibly let the clubs afford to run squads)..

So Riders riding for more than one team, and guesting all over the place to earn the crust they need, leads to even less credibility, impacting even more meetings, and unsurprisingly, even less fans attending them..

Not sure without being completely radical that they can actually change this race to the bottom..

Or indeed if they even have the will never mind the capability to do it..

Edited November 6, 2018 by mikebv

[g13webb]

The biggest indication of the attraction, that this sport has, is that it is incapable of retaining the interest of the current die-hard supporters let alone attract new ones.   But the BSPA, ACU  don't appear to grasp this dire situation.   Governed by Promoters with personal objectives , the sport has always been the second thought.   So antiquated in their ideas and the way they address the fans is appalling.   They don't seem to grasp the importance of them fans, and it is little wonder they lose interest.  They have this secret society that you are not allowed to know the problems or the plans.   Its about time they realise we are on the same side and we all want the sport to prosper.   

While the fans  are continued to be treated like mushrooms nothing will ever change.     There's not much time left...

 

 

[rocketrod]

It’s a double edge sword. Riders need meetings to pay for their machinery and running costs. They necessary don’t care who they ride for as long as they get paid on time.

if you have a sport where there is a shortage of riders to fulfill 3 leagues , riders will grab what they can and promoters  will be happy as they will fill their teams. 

A team has to be competitive within the points limit. It’s not about signing your assets year after year it’s about who fits the points limit. Therefore all it’s doing is leaving itself open to manipulation of the rules to gain an advantage. That’s sport. 

The paying spectator has to have a certain degree of realism that this is the state of British speedway now. And now crowds are dropping it’s time for the promoters to come clean so to speak and unite for the good of what punters they have left. 

Now this might be the pie in the sky bit. If the doubling up is dropped , the might lead to costs coming down for the riders as they will need less outlay for their machinery and travel costs. Might lead to less accidents due to rider fatigue. Which in turn leads to a more consistent septet turning out for teams. 

[mikebv]

5 minutes ago, rocketrod said:

It’s a double edge sword. Riders need meetings to pay for their machinery and running costs. They necessary don’t care who they ride for as long as they get paid on time.

if you have a sport where there is a shortage of riders to fulfill 3 leagues , riders will grab what they can and promoters  will be happy as they will fill their teams. 

A team has to be competitive within the points limit. It’s not about signing your assets year after year it’s about who fits the points limit. Therefore all it’s doing is leaving itself open to manipulation of the rules to gain an advantage. That’s sport. 

The paying spectator has to have a certain degree of realism that this is the state of British speedway now. And now crowds are dropping it’s time for the promoters to come clean so to speak and unite for the good of what punters they have left. 

Now this might be the pie in the sky bit. If the doubling up is dropped , the might lead to costs coming down for the riders as they will need less outlay for their machinery and travel costs. Might lead to less accidents due to rider fatigue. Which in turn leads to a more consistent septet turning out for teams. 

Too many full time riders.....

Not enough full time fans....

 

Edited November 6, 2018 by mikebv

[rocketrod]

2 minutes ago, mikebv said:

Too many full time riders.....

Not enough full time fans....

 

Maybe the bspa will introduce a doubling up fan rule !!!

[mikebv]

4 minutes ago, rocketrod said:

Maybe the bspa will introduce a doubling up fan rule !!!

Or allow guest fans?

Or just simply stick to asking those who still go to "Bring a Friend"...

 

[Danny Connor]

everybody wants something different amongst fans and promoters. Riders want double ups, probably 1/2 2nd tier promoters want that too. 

Ill just be glad with what ever they come up with really. As long as there is a fixed race nights between leagues if there is still double ups, to limit fixture clashes to avoid the farce of 2017 happening again (if there is 2 senior leagues) . . Unless people have short memories and it’s a free for all again. Then we may as well all give up

[rocketrod]

12 minutes ago, mikebv said:

Or allow guest fans?

Or just simply stick to asking those who still go to "Bring a Friend"...

 

By the law of averages then I’ll be guesting for Leicester in April. 

[Red Flag]

5 hours ago, Ghosty said:

One thing I think we all agree on is that: British Speedway supporters do not want the product that has been on offer the last few seasons i.e. team A + guest verses team B + guest this is the biggest reason for the drop in crowd numbers.

For 2019 riders must be loyal to their U.K. team & promoters loyal to their signed riders - no team changes @ the drop of a hat, fans may then see their team as "US" not just tonight's "7 select".

Also I would bring back for 2019 13 heats & a second half, not because it's better or worse than the current 15 heats, it would just be a change!   

Really? You want to swap 2 meaningful heats for 6 un meaningful heats that the crowd aren't bothered about, from my memory at least 50% of the crowd left after the match, then some of the top riders were not interested and often dropped out anyway followed by whoever was in the Rider of the Night  Final agreeing to split the prize money whatever the result

[topaz325]

Is the AGM this  weekend or next weekend?

 

[Alan_Jones]

8 minutes ago, topaz325 said:

Is the AGM this  weekend or next weekend?

Monday 12th - Wednesday 14th

[KevH]

5 hours ago, Richard Weston said:

I think quite a few of the regular posters already double up and even triple up.

They're not shirking their duty to keep speedway going

This has been the attitude of many of the promoters for a few years now, and one of the main reasons for the demise of Speedway in GB.

 

NO fan has a DUTY to support any team or any sport........and any team or any sport that thinks they have is in dangerous waters!!!

[Gemini]

4 hours ago, Red Flag said:

Really? You want to swap 2 meaningful heats for 6 un meaningful heats that the crowd aren't bothered about, from my memory at least 50% of the crowd left after the match, then some of the top riders were not interested and often dropped out anyway followed by whoever was in the Rider of the Night  Final agreeing to split the prize money whatever the result

100% correct.  Not many fans were interested in second half racing 20/30 years ago and they're certainly not going to be bothered now with the majority of riders also  in a rush to leave after the league match. 

[g13webb]

6 hours ago, Gemini said:

100% correct.  Not many fans were interested in second half racing 20/30 years ago and they're certainly not going to be bothered now with the majority of riders also  in a rush to leave after the league match. 

Years ago the rider was of secondary  importance to the Club,  but now the rider holds all the aces.   With their demands, their costings and their distant relation with the clubs, they have to take some responsibility for the way this sport has declined.   They appear as mercenaries taking the sport for all they can get,  giving little back in return.   Like you say  the majority of riders want to rush off to their next payday.     If the rider cant give 110% to the club then  don't sign them,      Would much rather have a lesser rider who gives his all,  then someone who goes missing because of fixture clashes 

The phase 'second halves'   is old fashioned.  what the punter wants is a well organised meeting that flows through the evening.    We could start with a 15min practice session ,  to help riders set their bike up,  then a 5min break to regrade the track,  before the meeting starts in earnest.   After 4 heats  another 5min break,    again to regrade the track,     another 4 heats  then another break .     We see this every week in the polish league and it works like clockwork....     Midway though the meeting there could be a set of races for youngsters starting out , before the climate at the end of the night.      Presentation and a scheduled program is more important than anything,    It would enable the fans the opportunity to get drinks or pop to the loo without them long delays...