AGM November 2018

[Aces51]

It's true that quite often fans want different things but anybody reading through the BSF would see that there are many things that most of us agree about. Most agree that the sport needs to reduce the amount of messing about at the starting gate and the time spent at the pit gate before a re-run. We mainly agree that the presentation needs to be slicker and geared to the 21st century. We agree that the fixtures need to be better planned to provide continuity and to avoid the chaos at the end of the season and we mainly agree that there should be a continuity of riders in teams to allow fans to better identify with "their" team. 

Any professional organisation would look at those and all of the other issues of concern raised by fans and where fans express different views, analyse those opinions and try to identify remedies that would appeal to the majority and not alienate the rest.

What is certain is that any organisation in the entertainment business will fail if it does not provide what it's customers want. 

[foamfence]

11 minutes ago, Aces51 said:

It's true that quite often fans want different things but anybody reading through the BSF would see that there are many things that most of us agree about. Most agree that the sport needs to reduce the amount of messing about at the starting gate and the time spent at the pit gate before a re-run. We mainly agree that the presentation needs to be slicker and geared to the 21st century. We agree that the fixtures need to be better planned to provide continuity and to avoid the chaos at the end of the season and we mainly agree that there should be a continuity of riders in teams to allow fans to better identify with "their" team. 

Any professional organisation would look at those and all of the other issues of concern raised by fans and where fans express different views, analyse those opinions and try to identify remedies that would appeal to the majority and not alienate the rest.

What is certain is that any organisation in the entertainment business will fail if it does not provide what it's customers want. 

It'll be new season, same old sh!t.

[mikebv]

1 minute ago, foamfence said:

It'll be new season, same old sh!t.

Sadly, history tells us you will be correct.

(Or ran even worse)....

[tigerowl]

There are some differences amongst the fans but I think the core issues about value for money, organisation of fixtures, integrity of the competitions and team identity are a common thread.

Just like the politicians tell us that when students go to university, they come out with £50,000 of debt and everyone believes them, the promoters tell us that there aren't enough riders to go round to stop doubling up. Solve this issue and get riders riding every week for one team, rather than pulling on a different race jacket every night of the week and other things may well fall into place.

Also, as I said in a previous post, the riders have to realise that they can't all be full time on the crowds we are getting.

[topaz325]

Get the basics right and maybe the sport could be saved in this country , two three four leagues but get the product and fixtures better or at least try to!!

[dontforgetthefueltapsbruv]

Those suggesting riders cant be full time need to also then accept that if their plans to completely stop doubling up were implemented that those riders may miss meetings to work elsewhere (particularly when rearranged)

[tigerowl]

2 minutes ago, dontforgetthefueltapsbruv said:

Those suggesting riders cant be full time need to also then accept that if their plans to completely stop doubling up were implemented that those riders may miss meetings to work elsewhere (particularly when rearranged)

We seemed to manage in the 1970s and 1980s when most of the riders were either self employed or had other jobs. 

[dontforgetthefueltapsbruv]

10 minutes ago, tigerowl said:

We seemed to manage in the 1970s and 1980s when most of the riders were either self employed or had other jobs. 

Needs a huge amount of goodwill from the employer for it to work

Some would find that but many other wouldnt

[tigerowl]

Never mind then. 

Let's just leave things as they are. Let's have an ever decreasing number of them riding for various teams every night of the week whilst their mates (and I'll mention Joe Jacobs again) having to pack in because he can't get a ride.

Let's have fans who want a team to support continue to drift away because they can't take the sport seriously (Chris Harris just missing out on the play off's with Glasgow but winning a league winner's medal with Poole and a cup winners medal with Somerset).

Just let things continue as they are and see how many riders can be full time then. The answer will be none, because the sport will cease to exist.

[BluPanther]

11 minutes ago, dontforgetthefueltapsbruv said:

Needs a huge amount of goodwill from the employer for it to work

Some would find that but many other wouldn't.

Sadly i'm not sure that goodwill exists anymore, with a few exceptions, compared to back in the day. Especially with the amount of injuries riders suffer these days...

[mikebv]

1 hour ago, tigerowl said:

Never mind then. 

Let's just leave things as they are. Let's have an ever decreasing number of them riding for various teams every night of the week whilst their mates (and I'll mention Joe Jacobs again) having to pack in because he can't get a ride.

Let's have fans who want a team to support continue to drift away because they can't take the sport seriously (Chris Harris just missing out on the play off's with Glasgow but winning a league winner's medal with Poole and a cup winners medal with Somerset).

Just let things continue as they are and see how many riders can be full time then. The answer will be none, because the sport will cease to exist.

Agree with everything you say, however..

Not sure if it will cease to exist as it has ran pretty much the same operating model for decades and is still here. (Just)..

The big difference nowadays is obviously Social Media magnifies the issues a thousand fold, hence we discuss the nonsense that so often pervades far wider than we used to years ago when we all agreed it was still nonsense but at a very local level, eg with the five or six people you were stood with at the track after finding out your No1 was in Germany to ride in a Long Track meeting tomorrow, and your opponent had four guests due to one being in the same Long Track meeting, and the others missing because this was an rearranged meeting... 

Same nonsense but we had already paid our money when we found out so didn't have a choice to attend or not..

Speedway hasn't cottoned on that Social Media can be a huge force for good but sadly also hasn't realised that it can also be a huge problem given 'bad news' is now 'out there' within seconds...

The sad fact is the way they give out so much nonsense through their ridiculous operating model, it leaves them wide open to ridicule via the modern media, which can never be a good start from which to attract a decent following...

What you got away with in the Seventies when England/GB had great teams, great riders and great coverage on mainstream written and visual media, you simply cannot get away with now...

Domestic Speedway was still "a bit Mickey Mouse" back then, but what you saw on ITV on a Saturday afternoon wasn't domestic league Speedway and always had credibility (and an 'X Factor' in Peter Collins)...

And domestic Speedway then flourished on the coat tails of this coverage...

Yet Speedway still runs a very similar operating model domestically that it did in the Seventies..

And it still runs a similar all round entertainment package for your night out that it did in the Seventies....

But doesn't anywhere near still run a similar admission cost to what it did in the Seventies when index linked to inflation...

Cease to exist? Probably not for a good while yet, but it will (and can) only meander to an ever decreasing fan base using its current model of operation.

One piece of bright news is I read today that the over 60's in ten years will form over 12 million of the whole population...

Maybe light at the end of the Speedway tunnel after all... 

 

 

Edited November 2, 2018 by mikebv

[dontforgetthefueltapsbruv]

36 minutes ago, tigerowl said:

Never mind then. 

Let's just leave things as they are. Let's have an ever decreasing number of them riding for various teams every night of the week whilst their mates (and I'll mention Joe Jacobs again) having to pack in because he can't get a ride.

Let's have fans who want a team to support continue to drift away because they can't take the sport seriously (Chris Harris just missing out on the play off's with Glasgow but winning a league winner's medal with Poole and a cup winners medal with Somerset).

Just let things continue as they are and see how many riders can be full time then. The answer will be none, because the sport will cease to exist.

Dont get me wrong I agree with the sentiment of your idea but just adding a bit of realism that it cant just change over one winter

If you could have a workable combined league of say 18/20 teams  meaning the riders had the same number of meetings but for 1 team rather than doubling up then happy days

Unfortunately I cant see such a situation being possible right now

[thebaron]

I'd like to put forward some thoughts I have had about next season's domestic format. 

Collective Averages are not used to build team strengths in 2019. Instead teams are permitted to build there team strengths to the level of the 2018 Champions. In this case say Poole/Workington are the bench Mark. 

Split the current Prem/Champ Leagues into two Regional Conferences North & South. The "Conference's " being the curtain raiser for the 2019 season. The "Conference Campaign" runs from March-June. Riders can double up across the Conferences but cannot ride for two teams in the same Section. Teams changes are only allowed to cover injured riders. "The transfer window" opens at end of June (read notes to follow).

On conclusion of all Conference fixtures (teams ride once H&A) The top half of Conferences/N&S combine to form the 2019 Premier League and the bottom half of Conferences N&S form the 2019 Championship  Riders can continue to double up. The transfer window opens to allow teams to adjust team strength should they wish. 

Alongside the PL/CL teams contest National KO Cup. This is an inter-league competition straight draw.; two legged ties. Where a Championship team draws a PL team the Championship team is always at Home for the first leg.

I am convinced these revised "League formats" give everyone something of what we want both as fans and competitors; without tearing everything up altogether. I believe the season opening with Regional Conferences helps with costs; travel over shorter distances (riders & fans)  and loss of meetings to bad weather. Provides a meaningful start to the season as it would determine which League a team enters in June !.Also gives continuity with BT Sport TV coverage of the Premier League which is very important to the Sport going forward. 

At the end of the PL/CL campaigns keep the Play-Offs as they are now. So in practice 

Conference N. Scunthorrpe; Sheffield; Belle Vue; Berwick; Glasgow; Edinburgh; Newcastle; Redcar; Workington

Conference S Somerset; Poole; Swindon; Rye House; Ipswich; KLynn; Ptrboro; Leicester; Wolves 

Premier League (result of Conf Placings) Belle Vue; Workington; Glasgow; Sheffield; Somerset; Poole; Wolves; KLynn

Champ League Scunthorpe; Berwick; Edinburgh; Newcastle; Redcar; Rye House; Ipswich; Ptrboro; Leicester. 

As I have said riders can double up across the Conferences/Leagues but cannot ride for two teams in their Conf Section/ League. In June Conference teams will have a window to review their team strength before embarking on the "Major Leagues Series" from July-Oct ie; PL/CL. If say Scunthorpe were in the top half of Conferences N and "promoted" into the Premier League Series they would have the opportunity to recruit a rider/riders to be competitive in that League or indeed elect to build to a budget. This would be for "half a season" June-Oct so making it more affordable (commitments being not for a full season,) to recruit high standard riders. 

Just thinking this through I do think it workable and brings about some of the changes we all want and Speedway needs; without completely tearing down the bricks we already have in place. 

 

 

 

 

 

[foamfence]

4 minutes ago, the outsider said:

I'd like to put forward some thoughts I have had about next season's domestic format. 

Collective Averages are not used to build team strengths in 2019. Instead teams are permitted to build there team strengths to the level of the 2018 Champions. In this case say Poole/Workington are the bench Mark. 

Split the current Prem/Champ Leagues into two Regional Conferences North & South. The "Conference's " being the curtain raiser for the 2019 season. The "Conference Campaign" runs from March-June. Riders can double up across the Conferences but cannot ride for two teams in the same Section. Teams changes are only allowed to cover injured riders. "The transfer window" opens at end of June (read notes to follow).

On conclusion of all Conference fixtures (teams ride once H&A) The top half of Conferences/N&S combine to form the 2019 Premier League and the bottom half of Conferences N&S form the 2019 Championship  Riders can continue to double up. The transfer window opens to allow teams to adjust team strength should they wish. 

Alongside the PL/CL teams contest National KO Cup. This is an inter-league competition straight draw.; two legged ties. Where a Championship team draws a PL team the Championship team is always at Home for the first leg.

I am convinced these revised "League formats" give everyone something of what we want both as fans and competitors; without tearing everything up altogether. I believe the season opening with Regional Conferences helps with costs; travel over shorter distances (riders & fans)  and loss of meetings to bad weather. Provides a meaningful start to the season as it would determine which League a team enters in June !.Also gives continuity with BT Sport TV coverage of the Premier League which is very important to the Sport going forward. 

At the end of the PL/CL campaigns keep the Play-Offs as they are now. So in practice 

Conference N. Scunthorrpe; Sheffield; Belle Vue; Berwick; Glasgow; Edinburgh; Newcastle; Redcar; Workington

Conference S Somerset; Poole; Swindon; Rye House; Ipswich; KLynn; Ptrboro; Leicester; Wolves 

Premier League (result of Conf Placings) Belle Vue; Workington; Glasgow; Sheffield; Somerset; Poole; Wolves; KLynn

Champ League Scunthorpe; Berwick; Edinburgh; Newcastle; Redcar; Rye House; Ipswich; Ptrboro; Leicester. 

As I have said riders can double up across the Conferences/Leagues but cannot ride for two teams in their Conf Section/ League. In June Conference teams will have a window to review their team strength before embarking on the "Major Leagues Series" from July-Oct ie; PL/CL. If say Scunthorpe were in the top half of Conferences N and "promoted" into the Premier League Series they would have the opportunity to recruit a rider/riders to be competitive in that League or indeed elect to build to a budget. This would be for "half a season" June-Oct so making it more affordable (commitments being not for a full season,) to recruit high standard riders. 

Just thinking this through I do think it workable and brings about some of the changes we all want and Speedway needs; without completely tearing down the bricks we already have in place. 

 

 

 

 

 

You'd still have the same amount of doubling up and guests.

[All4back]

25 minutes ago, Richard Weston said:

Not going to need a very big room, on the basis of clubs "up for sale" not being present at the agm. Can't see why they should take part as they have no interest in the future of the sport.

Would rule out RH, Lakeside, Peterboro, Worky? and Mildy (but I think NL are not even invited to the party)

Why rule out Peterborough? Mr Rathbone has already said they will race in 2019, even if the club remains unsold

[Tsunami]

2 minutes ago, Isotonic said:

Why rule out Peterborough? Mr Rathbone has already said they will race in 2019, even if the club remains unsold

And they will ride in the Premier League.

[Midland Red]

54 minutes ago, the outsider said:

I'd like to put forward some thoughts I have had about next season's domestic format. 

Collective Averages are not used to build team strengths in 2019. Instead teams are permitted to build there team strengths to the level of the 2018 Champions. In this case say Poole/Workington are the bench Mark. 

Split the current Prem/Champ Leagues into two Regional Conferences North & South. The "Conference's " being the curtain raiser for the 2019 season. The "Conference Campaign" runs from March-June. Riders can double up across the Conferences but cannot ride for two teams in the same Section. Teams changes are only allowed to cover injured riders. "The transfer window" opens at end of June (read notes to follow).

On conclusion of all Conference fixtures (teams ride once H&A) The top half of Conferences/N&S combine to form the 2019 Premier League and the bottom half of Conferences N&S form the 2019 Championship  Riders can continue to double up. The transfer window opens to allow teams to adjust team strength should they wish. 

Alongside the PL/CL teams contest National KO Cup. This is an inter-league competition straight draw.; two legged ties. Where a Championship team draws a PL team the Championship team is always at Home for the first leg.

I am convinced these revised "League formats" give everyone something of what we want both as fans and competitors; without tearing everything up altogether. I believe the season opening with Regional Conferences helps with costs; travel over shorter distances (riders & fans)  and loss of meetings to bad weather. Provides a meaningful start to the season as it would determine which League a team enters in June !.Also gives continuity with BT Sport TV coverage of the Premier League which is very important to the Sport going forward. 

At the end of the PL/CL campaigns keep the Play-Offs as they are now. So in practice 

Conference N. Scunthorrpe; Sheffield; Belle Vue; Berwick; Glasgow; Edinburgh; Newcastle; Redcar; Workington

Conference S Somerset; Poole; Swindon; Rye House; Ipswich; KLynn; Ptrboro; Leicester; Wolves 

Premier League (result of Conf Placings) Belle Vue; Workington; Glasgow; Sheffield; Somerset; Poole; Wolves; KLynn

Champ League Scunthorpe; Berwick; Edinburgh; Newcastle; Redcar; Rye House; Ipswich; Ptrboro; Leicester. 

As I have said riders can double up across the Conferences/Leagues but cannot ride for two teams in their Conf Section/ League. In June Conference teams will have a window to review their team strength before embarking on the "Major Leagues Series" from July-Oct ie; PL/CL. If say Scunthorpe were in the top half of Conferences N and "promoted" into the Premier League Series they would have the opportunity to recruit a rider/riders to be competitive in that League or indeed elect to build to a budget. This would be for "half a season" June-Oct so making it more affordable (commitments being not for a full season,) to recruit high standard riders. 

Just thinking this through I do think it workable and brings about some of the changes we all want and Speedway needs; without completely tearing down the bricks we already have in place. 

 

 

 

 

 

Just one problem with all that - DOUBLING UP

[thebaron]

12 hours ago, Midland Red said:

Just one problem with all that - DOUBLING UP

Agree "doubling up" is something I can't really overcome. I do like the idea of a early season "regional competition" that forms the "major leagues series" from mid season on ? There's a completion going on for all clubs whether you qualify for the Prem or the Championship. Riders seem to want the "doubling up aspect" and it's something we have to give ground to unfortunately. Unless we can find a way of attracting more riders to the UK from overseas. With the format I suggest "there is change" but manageable change. The regional Conferences starting the season should reduce costs all round. Also if we could bring in "supporter ticket incentives" more fans may travel to local fixtures ? Say Scunny offer £5 off the admission for travelling fans & in return Scunny fans get £5 off when we travel. 

At the "mid season point" the "major leagues season" "reincentivises" the season for all clubs as the Conferences split to "national competitions" the PL/CL. The transfer window opens and teams then redeclare their line ups. So if Scunny qualify for the PL we would need to consider strengthening maybe at the No1 position? Or just strengthening through the order ?.

Ok it sounds fine in principal and do understand there are lots of things I cannot account for here. But I really do think this could work. I don't see a complete amalgamation of the two leagues as there still will be too much self interest. Chris Louis in the Star is open to the idea of Ipswich "moving up" Eastbourne & Birmingham in the NL could elect to step up into "league above" ? So there is an understanding that we really are at "a fork in the road" moment here and all the silly tinkering with helmet colours & starting gate antics has to be put aside in favour of focusing on the fundamental organisation of the Sport. 

If I was sat in the AGM I would be arguing the case for my plan. It's not a cure all but it could be just the tonic Speedway needs till it finally finds "the cure" ! ?

[Spl77]

I still believe that the powers that be need to take a leaf from Poland where the sport is taken seriously and appears to be a very marketable product. I'll admit not all is good there either. 

Another example to follow would be the F. I. S snowboarding World Cup. They have taken an event that used to be confined to youngsters and the mountains and taken it to a much larger audience and to man-made city centre venues. 

Speedway in this country needs a radical revamp to survive. 

[Noodles]

14 hours ago, Tsunami said:

And they will ride in the Premier League.

Do you mean Premiership? How do you know this?