woofers Posted October 12, 2018 Report Share Posted October 12, 2018 4 hours ago, CottonOn said: No they're not. 4 hours ago, CottonOn said: No they're not. Current assets are things which are either cash or will be quickly turned into cash. e.g. Debtors, Stocks and WIP, Bank accounts, short term loans, and cash in hand. If anyone were to list riders contracts as assets, they would be listed as Fixed assets and amortised over their expected useful life... but why would anyone do this when they can write the whole lot off to P&L at the time of purchase? Mate, please don't tell me "No they're not", go into Companies House website, get the accounts for Slade Tipton Ltd, look at the Balance Sheet for 28 February 2017 and look at note 8 for said Balance Sheet. Then come back and apologise. I didn't say any of it was correct in it's accounting treatment - I answered a question with facts of how IT IS being shown in UNAUDITED accounts. Like most things in Speedway, club accounts are far from uniform. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woofers Posted October 12, 2018 Report Share Posted October 12, 2018 28 minutes ago, MattK said: It is worth whatever someone is prepared to pay for it. Given that I find it hard to believe there is a club in British speedway which hasn't made a loss over the last five years, the value of every club is zero. You are effectively buying an expensive hobby. Dead right. If and when you can find any accounts for a Speedway Club, you will find mostly unaudited, abbreviated accounts which comprise Balance Sheets only, no P&Ls. And in most of these the Nett Worth is declining each year, which would suggest losses year on year. I recall Bob Dugard being asked what return an investor or buyer could expect if buying into a Speedway Club, he laughed and said it was as the other way round, you put your hand into your pocket. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woofers Posted October 12, 2018 Report Share Posted October 12, 2018 And for what it's worth (no pun intended) the Poole Accounts are very abbreviated (Micro Company Accounts) showing Capital & Reserves of : Feb 2018 £76,881 Feb 2017 £97,815 Feb 2016 £101,625 Feb 2015 £78,160 Feb 2014 £78,701 The last time they showed any detail around assets there was a value of £24,667 for Intangible Assets in 2016. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miadfa8 Posted October 12, 2018 Report Share Posted October 12, 2018 18 minutes ago, woofers said: And for what it's worth (no pun intended) the Poole Accounts are very abbreviated (Micro Company Accounts) showing Capital & Reserves of : Feb 2018 £76,881 Feb 2017 £97,815 Feb 2016 £101,625 Feb 2015 £78,160 Feb 2014 £78,701 The last time they showed any detail around assets there was a value of £24,667 for Intangible Assets in 2016. Quote M Ford: "It's a great club," he added. "It's well run and it makes a profit, which is unusual in any form of sport. See https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/speedway/45823480 One out the last four years ain't bad is it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trees Posted October 12, 2018 Report Share Posted October 12, 2018 5 hours ago, Skidder1 said: Yes certain club sponsors structured their 'deal' so that maximum money only became available if the team won !! Be interested to see any group photos from there.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikebv Posted October 13, 2018 Report Share Posted October 13, 2018 13 hours ago, lisa-colette said: The Poole riders are the jammy ones getting to go to the Abu Dhabi F1 GP!! Ironically on this occasion ALL of them will be guests... I take it all are available for this? Any of them due on another pre planned break at the same time elsewhere in the World?... If they did need to invite replacements, would their luggage need to weigh less than the rider they are replacing or as it will be a big plane can they carry an extra 5% more.? I'll get me coat.. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old bob at herne bay Posted October 13, 2018 Report Share Posted October 13, 2018 Maybe the first item On the agenda at this years promoters winter bash should be an Auction. At present we have Lot 1 Poole Lot 2 Peterborough Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BWitcher Posted October 13, 2018 Report Share Posted October 13, 2018 On 10/12/2018 at 9:29 AM, ray c said: Your way off the mark . I think Matt has gone as far as he can go personally hard act to follow though You're right, he really can't do much more damage to the sport now. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Jamie Posted October 13, 2018 Report Share Posted October 13, 2018 12 hours ago, miadfa8 said: Quote M Ford: "It's a great club," he added. "It's well run and it makes a profit, which is unusual in any form of sport. See https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/speedway/45823480 One out the last four years ain't bad is it? It hasn't necessarily made a loss every other year though. For example: Capital and reserves: Year ended 28 Feb 2017 - £97,815 Year ended 28 Feb 2018 - £76,881 You may automatically think the company's made a loss of £20,934 in the most recent year. However, it's entirely possible it made a profit of, say, £4,066 but the directors then decided to pay out dividends of £25K. As the company has positive reserves, they are more than entitled to do so. The problem with these types of accounts is too many things can be hidden. But that's the legislation's fault, not that of the companies themselves. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theblueboy Posted October 13, 2018 Report Share Posted October 13, 2018 15 minutes ago, King Jamie said: It hasn't necessarily made a loss every other year though. For example: Capital and reserves: Year ended 28 Feb 2017 - £97,815 Year ended 28 Feb 2018 - £76,881 You may automatically think the company's made a loss of £20,934 in the most recent year. However, it's entirely possible it made a profit of, say, £4,066 but the directors then decided to pay out dividends of £25K. As the company has positive reserves, they are more than entitled to do so. The problem with these types of accounts is too many things can be hidden. But that's the legislation's fault, not that of the companies themselves. I didn’t think you could pay more dividend than profit? e.g. it could only pay a dividend based on the profit, in your example, £4066? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wee Eck Posted October 13, 2018 Report Share Posted October 13, 2018 46 minutes ago, theblueboy said: I didn’t think you could pay more dividend than profit? e.g. it could only pay a dividend based on the profit, in your example, £4066? Dividends are paid from retained profits, not solely the profit for a particular period. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IainB Posted October 15, 2018 Report Share Posted October 15, 2018 On 10/12/2018 at 9:51 PM, woofers said: Mate, please don't tell me "No they're not", go into Companies House website, get the accounts for Slade Tipton Ltd, look at the Balance Sheet for 28 February 2017 and look at note 8 for said Balance Sheet. Then come back and apologise. Does that include Sam Ermolenko, Ronnie Correy and all of the Karlsson's? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robins les Posted October 15, 2018 Report Share Posted October 15, 2018 On 10/12/2018 at 12:50 PM, Steve0 said: “Assets” that you believe have a perceived value have no value at all under the Bosman ruling. If they have no long term contract then they are not assets. Speedway has been flouting this law for years and it is illegal. It takes just one rider to challenge the asset system and it falls apart. Anyone interested in purchasing a speedway club should bear that in mind! Commercial partners may have some value depending on what their contracts say. I used to think that the asset system was illegal under the Bosman ruling but I now believe that this is incorrect. The clubs only own the league registration not the rider. The rider is free to ride for any club that he wants. He can refuse to ride for the club that owns the asset, as Kyle Howarth has done in the past & probably many other riders have also done so in the past. The difference between this & football was that the football player was not free to do this. Speedway riders are classed as self employed, unlike footballers who are employees of the club. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coventry_Bee Posted October 15, 2018 Report Share Posted October 15, 2018 Quite a good debate for once, It did bring back memories of the 2005 issue Coventry had with Oxford. They wanted to loan Billy and Greg yet we had to buy Scott Nicholls from what i recall? It was 13 years ago. https://www.highbeam.com/doc/1G1-129798675.html 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woofers Posted October 16, 2018 Report Share Posted October 16, 2018 18 hours ago, iainb said: Does that include Sam Ermolenko, Ronnie Correy and all of the Karlsson's? I wouldn't know, it's just a number in the accounts prepared and signed by the Director and Secretary, Mr C H Van Straaten. I suspect only he knows. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dj350z Posted October 16, 2018 Report Share Posted October 16, 2018 On 10/12/2018 at 7:55 PM, lisa-colette said: Plenty of them in Sandbanks ..............and I bet they wouldn't go anywhere near a speedway club! They are not daft - that's why they are multi millionaires!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spl77 Posted October 16, 2018 Report Share Posted October 16, 2018 21 hours ago, robins les said: I used to think that the asset system was illegal under the Bosman ruling but I now believe that this is incorrect. The clubs only own the league registration not the rider. The rider is free to ride for any club that he wants. He can refuse to ride for the club that owns the asset, as Kyle Howarth has done in the past & probably many other riders have also done so in the past. The difference between this & football was that the football player was not free to do this. Speedway riders are classed as self employed, unlike footballers who are employees of the club. That may be true. However if they can still ride anywhere they wish and are self employed then surely they have no monetary valve to the business? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A ORLOV Posted October 16, 2018 Report Share Posted October 16, 2018 21 minutes ago, Spl77 said: That may be true. However if they can still ride anywhere they wish and are self employed then surely they have no monetary valve to the business? Correct Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skidder1 Posted October 16, 2018 Report Share Posted October 16, 2018 How much do you think Terry Russell would expect to get if/when he sells Swindon? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A ORLOV Posted October 16, 2018 Report Share Posted October 16, 2018 9 minutes ago, Skidder1 said: How much do you think Terry Russell would expect to get if/when he sells Swindon? No idea what he would expect but as with Matt at Poole, not a lot, we do not even have our own tractor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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