foamfence Posted October 12, 2018 Report Share Posted October 12, 2018 3 minutes ago, eric i said: Fixed race nights have reduced the number of fixture clashes and therefore I am fairly sure there has been less guests than previous few years. It has allowed more doubling up though (I always cringe when they say on TV "he also rides for ...."). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magnus Posted October 12, 2018 Report Share Posted October 12, 2018 1. I would say one league, but unfortunately there don't appear to be enough riders. Unless we have six man teams (All premiership teams mainly consist of championship riders). 2. North-south divide to reduce early season travel cost, but at the same time create a two league system. Where the top four in each group could meet in a play off for the league title. 3. When the split happens for the play off, the lower teams go in to a competition for a shield trophy. 4. The split mid season for the playoffs would rejuvenate all team supporters, as an influx of new riders/teams would be like starting the season again and give teams something to play for. 5. Start the league at the beginning of the season and keep cup matches etc for the later part of the season, where if the weather intervenes the matches are less important. Just my thoughts...... 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Third Man Posted October 12, 2018 Report Share Posted October 12, 2018 1 hour ago, magnus said: 2. North-south divide to reduce early season travel cost, but at the same time create a two league system. Where the top four in each group could meet in a play off for the league title. Doesn't work to reduce costs as riders live all over the country Doyle lives in Norfolk, Doolan in Sheffield Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikebv Posted October 12, 2018 Report Share Posted October 12, 2018 (edited) 4 hours ago, foamfence said: It sickens me when teams can bring guests in and then win on the strength of it. Followers of any Sport can never complain about a lack of mainstream media coverage when that Sport they follow allows 'horses for courses' ringers to be brought in.. It simply isn't (and can never be) a true sporting contest when teams are contrived and cobbled together, and farcically often done so using competitors who are competing for the same prize.. And there is no way the guest system can be used without the accusations of manipulation.. There is zero chance of any blue chip sponsors getting involved either.. Imagine one of them sponsoring this year's play off final and getting the decision to allow Adam Ellis to ride for both teams explained to them? And then later getting told that instead of that ludicrous situation now being allowed, two Swindon team mates will go head to head instead representing both clubs... This would be a major company who will be having its name associated with such brand damaging carnage... If theres not enough riders then reduce the number of teams... Or keep the same number of teams and reduce the number of team places per team.. Either way, you need to have supply exceeding demand to ensure replacements are available, just like in other Sports, (they have injuries too amazingly!).. Maybe the top league could be ran 'properly' with any replacements needed coming from the lower league? With the caveat being that once a rider rides for a top league team he cannot ride for any other that season and can only represent that team again if needed.. And on that basis put all the focus on the top league, and try selling it as a bona fide Sporting Championship with the aim to gain media coverage and sponsorship which could have a reflective positive fall out to the other leagues... Edited October 12, 2018 by mikebv 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
montie Posted October 12, 2018 Report Share Posted October 12, 2018 4 hours ago, foamfence said: It sickens me when teams can bring guests in and then win on the strength of it. But to be fair teams can also bring in guests and get hammered on the strength of it 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
singy13 Posted October 12, 2018 Report Share Posted October 12, 2018 Surely there are towns...cities even... where it's still possible to open some new tracks? (where are the promoters willing to gamble?) Ok maybe the sport is in terminal decline but if new areas could be introduced the influx of new fans would help all concerned....or is speedway nowadays just an alien sports product? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruffdiamond Posted October 12, 2018 Report Share Posted October 12, 2018 Things should remain relatively similar, and folk should just muddle through it. New ideas won't work as they can't be implmented properly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leander Posted October 12, 2018 Report Share Posted October 12, 2018 Guests for a missing number one only. R/R for missing 2 to 5 in averages. Teams to name an unattached NL no.8. If both teams are using R/R then top reserve moves into the team proper and number 8 comes in at reserve. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leander Posted October 12, 2018 Report Share Posted October 12, 2018 46 minutes ago, mikebv said: Followers of any Sport can never complain about a lack of mainstream media coverage when that Sport they follow allows 'horses for courses' ringers to be brought in.. It simply isn't (and can never be) a true sporting contest when teams are contrived and cobbled together, and farcically often done so using competitors who are competing for the same prize.. And there is no way the guest system can be used without the accusations of manipulation.. There is zero chance of any blue chip sponsors getting involved either.. Imagine one of them sponsoring this year's play off final and getting the decision to allow Adam Ellis to ride for both teams explained to them? And then later getting told that instead of that ludicrous situation now being allowed, two Swindon team mates will go head to head instead representing both clubs... This would be a major company who will be having its name associated with such brand damaging carnage... If theres not enough riders then reduce the number of teams... Or keep the same number of teams and reduce the number of team places per team.. Either way, you need to have supply exceeding demand to ensure replacements are available, just like in other Sports, (they have injuries too amazingly!).. Maybe the top league could be ran 'properly' with any replacements needed coming from the lower league? With the caveat being that once a rider rides for a top league team he cannot ride for any other that season and can only represent that team again if needed.. And on that basis put all the focus on the top league, and try selling it as a bona fide Sporting Championship with the aim to gain media coverage and sponsorship which could have a reflective positive fall out to the other leagues... Not allowed to this year. Can't choose a guest from another play-off team. If a rider guests for team A in the first leg of a play-off he isn't allowed to guest for team B in the second leg. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leander Posted October 12, 2018 Report Share Posted October 12, 2018 23 minutes ago, singy13 said: Surely there are towns...cities even... where it's still possible to open some new tracks? (where are the promoters willing to gamble?) Ok maybe the sport is in terminal decline but if new areas could be introduced the influx of new fans would help all concerned....or is speedway nowadays just an alien sports product? Some promoters have and failed (Coventry, Bristol, Exeter, Reading, Oxford to name a few). Generally, nowadays, unless you've can find a barren site or field that is at least 5 mile away from the nearest habitation you've got next to no chance of getting planning permission. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stoneylegend Posted October 12, 2018 Report Share Posted October 12, 2018 On 10/11/2018 at 7:54 PM, topaz325 said: You forgot to mention Workington as well. unfortunately - need to end this on a high !! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JCookie Posted October 12, 2018 Report Share Posted October 12, 2018 25 minutes ago, leander said: Not allowed to this year. Can't choose a guest from another play-off team. If a rider guests for team A in the first leg of a play-off he isn't allowed to guest for team B in the second leg. Think you need to check the EL section as this very scenario was going to play out, until they fudged the 'rules'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carlislecomet2 Posted October 12, 2018 Report Share Posted October 12, 2018 5 hours ago, foamfence said: It sickens me when teams can bring guests in and then win on the strength of it. How would the likes of Scunthorpe have managed this season without competitive guests to replace their injured heat leaders and second strings. There just aren't enough quality spare riders hanging about twiddling their thumbs to fill the void. Therefore they would have been running with half a team of National League riders. Also there is no guarantee that guests will win the meeting for you, on the contrary quite the reverse is often true. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carlislecomet2 Posted October 12, 2018 Report Share Posted October 12, 2018 1 hour ago, singy13 said: Surely there are towns...cities even... where it's still possible to open some new tracks? (where are the promoters willing to gamble?) Ok maybe the sport is in terminal decline but if new areas could be introduced the influx of new fans would help all concerned....or is speedway nowadays just an alien sports product? How about Kingmoor in Carlisle? It has good transport links and was looked at recently as a possible venue for a new stadium for Carlisle United. It would certainly be handier for supporters of Edinburgh, Glasgow, Newcastle, Berwick and Redcar. Neither Allerdale Borough Council or the good people of West Cumbria seem to be interested in speedway, and it would keep the sport in Cumbria. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foamfence Posted October 13, 2018 Report Share Posted October 13, 2018 8 hours ago, Carlislecomet2 said: How would the likes of Scunthorpe have managed this season without competitive guests to replace their injured heat leaders and second strings. There just aren't enough quality spare riders hanging about twiddling their thumbs to fill the void. Therefore they would have been running with half a team of National League riders. Also there is no guarantee that guests will win the meeting for you, on the contrary quite the reverse is often true. I never mentioned guarantees, some of us can remember the days when there were no guests or R/R. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batman65 Posted October 13, 2018 Report Share Posted October 13, 2018 rider replacement should be changed ...the replacement rider be 1 point less than the average of the rider getting replaced ..eg injured riders av 7.5 replacement rider 6.5 max .. a team should nt be advantaged by RR Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikebv Posted October 13, 2018 Report Share Posted October 13, 2018 9 hours ago, Carlislecomet2 said: How would the likes of Scunthorpe have managed this season without competitive guests to replace their injured heat leaders and second strings. There just aren't enough quality spare riders hanging about twiddling their thumbs to fill the void. Therefore they would have been running with half a team of National League riders. Also there is no guarantee that guests will win the meeting for you, on the contrary quite the reverse is often true. As you say Scunthorpe could have run with a half a team of NL riders.... Or they could have scoured Europe for replacements if not enough available in the UK.. Or they could have pulled out of the League... And if they did that they would have at least freed up their non injured riders to replace other injured riders in other teams.. Bottom line is... Maintaining guests = Maintaining zero credibility.. Maintaining zero credibility = Maintaining almost zero mainstream media interest.. Maintaining almost zero mainstream media interest = Maintaining low crowds due to the lack of the publics awareness of it.. Maintaining low crowds due to the lack of the publics awareness of it = Maintaining zero interest in sponsoring it from large national companies.. Other sports have injuries to competitors, often several competitors from the same team. And they have to carry on.... Speedway cannot use 'ahh but this is speedway' as its catch all bollocks, get out of jail card.. If there are too many teams and not enough riders then completely change the dynamic.. Put simply, dont keep on using the same failed operating model over and over again.... As guess what? It doesn't work! 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cometbaz Posted October 13, 2018 Report Share Posted October 13, 2018 I hate rider replacement full stop. I think it should only be used as absolute last resort. We pay to see 7 riders racing and it causes major problems if any injuries happen during a meeting. Think once two minute light is on riders should be at the tapes ready to start when the light goes out. If they want to garden and mess about at the start then they would have to get out early. It would also stop the mind games between riders who want to be last at the tapes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bruno Posted October 13, 2018 Report Share Posted October 13, 2018 Maybe it's time to try the Polish way with no average limits and no guests and survival of the fittist. Could be a disaster and the death knell for the sport. Then again the current systems a roaring success isn't it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikebv Posted October 13, 2018 Report Share Posted October 13, 2018 (edited) 11 hours ago, ruffdiamond said: Things should remain relatively similar, and folk should just muddle through it. New ideas won't work as they can't be implmented properly. I take it you must have read a leaked copy of some far reaching, root and branch investigation in to the future of the Sport RD? No? My apologies... I just presumed you were quoting its final recommendation!!! Edited October 13, 2018 by mikebv 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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