Panthers up for sale.

[NeilWatson]

1 hour ago, wealdstone said:

The management did not even have the courtesy to forewarn season ticket holders that their tickets were no longer valid.

It’s not that the season tickets were ‘no longer valid’ - they were priced and sold as being valid for the regular season only, which has now ended, with special concessionary pricing for additional meetings. 

[cinderfella]

3 hours ago, Noodles said:

We were part of the MCN festival for two years running with hundreds of non speedway fans attending each time. Absolutely nothing was done that I'm aware of to interact with these people or to encourage them back. Should have been handing out discount vouchers with fixture lists, organised photograph/autograph sessions, hand out stickers/posters for the kids etc. (Something they could have done in partnership with BSPA as not all people would have been from the Peterborough area).

 

 

Still think the problem with general motorcycle (sport) fans and speedway is the down to the fact that everyday manufacturers are not involved. Honda, Yamaha etc are everyday day names people relate too but I've never seen a GM powered bike on the road or race circuits and I can't remember the last time I saw a Jawa apart from a vintage moto-x (or should that be scrambles?) meeting. As argued often before, and by much more informed folk than myself, surely the cost involved with speedway machinery would fall if other manufacturers were involved and their engines fueled by unleaded rather than methanol introduced?

[foamfence]

29 minutes ago, cinderfella said:

Still think the problem with general motorcycle (sport) fans and speedway is the down to the fact that everyday manufacturers are not involved. Honda, Yamaha etc are everyday day names people relate too but I've never seen a GM powered bike on the road or race circuits and I can't remember the last time I saw a Jawa apart from a vintage moto-x (or should that be scrambles?) meeting. As argued often before, and by much more informed folk than myself, surely the cost involved with speedway machinery would fall if other manufacturers were involved and their engines fueled by unleaded rather than methanol introduced?

F2 but they won't give it a serious try. You can fit a 450cc motocross engine (made by all the leading manufacturers) into existing frames and some of them will accept heavier flywheels if necessary. You would have better reliability, longer service intervals and hydraulic clutches that rarely need adjusting or new plates. This country needs to go it alone and forget pandering to the poles etc.

[cityrebel]

2 minutes ago, foamfence said:

F2 but they won't give it a serious try. You can fit a 450cc motocross engine (made by all the leading manufacturers) into existing frames and some of them will accept heavier flywheels if necessary. You would have better reliability, longer service intervals and hydraulic clutches that rarely need adjusting or new plates. This country needs to go it alone and forget pandering to the poles etc.

Totally agree.

[singy13]

What assets are included in the sale please?

[scoobydoo]

If no new buyer comes forward then Ged could be left with a massive decision to make if he wants to sell the club it needs to be a going concern, if he doesn't run the speedway dies for good at the Showground the residents will see to that and hes got no money to invest in Redcar if thats his plan, he cant recoup his investment on a dead club,he maybe forced to run or take a bit hit financially.  

[IainB]

46 minutes ago, singy13 said:

What assets are included in the sale please?

The temporary lighting?

[2ndbendbeerhut]

There are enough Lemmings that keep clubs afloat that little or no promotional ideas are needed to attract new fans. It's once these Lemmings decide enough is enough and fall by the wayside that the "promoters" start to worry and want out. This is not just a Peterborough issue but nationwide. 

Most "promoters" won't agree to deals as they look at the money they will lose from the Lemmings rather than the bigger picture. 

A Lemming would easily pay the £16 per meeting for 2 meetings in a week so the club would be £6 worse off if they offered the second meeting for £10.  However how many newbies would attend for £10... the same price as a night at the cinema? 

This happened at Ipswich when they rode Glasgow on the Thursday and then Berwick on the Saturday. The Saturday was one of the lowest attendances in recent years. 

 

[proud panther]

With all the Panthers assets, he would have a very good side at Redcar. Add all the equipment for the track, & the airfence, & he is ready to go without any outlay. 

[poole keith]

47 minutes ago, singy13 said:

What assets are included in the sale please?

very good question,with poole being for sale many people have asked the same,so far the list of assets is 1xclapped out tractor,2xwheelbarrows and 5 rakes! rider assets? thats a big gamble,a buyer can only base an offer on the profits shown on the accounts,then has to factor in risks such as will attendance remain the same,what happens if first 3 meetings are rained off? and dont forget bspa bond! i think any prospective buyer has to be a massive fan,slightly mad a real gambler and very wealthy,sorry

[IainB]

34 minutes ago, 2ndbendbeerhut said:

£10... the same price as a night at the cinema? 

£5 in Leicester... £4 on a Monday!

[cinderfella]

1 hour ago, foamfence said:

F2 but they won't give it a serious try. You can fit a 450cc motocross engine (made by all the leading manufacturers) into existing frames and some of them will accept heavier flywheels if necessary. You would have better reliability, longer service intervals and hydraulic clutches that rarely need adjusting or new plates. This country needs to go it alone and forget pandering to the poles etc.

When you hear reports from tracks saying the largest crowds and income come from dirt track racing then it obviously shows that there are bike fans interested in oval circuit racing as they can relate to the machines.
Perhaps the fact these races are over more than 4 laps means better value for money? My sons liked speedway till I took them to a stock car meeting and we all realised it was much better value for money getting between 15 and 20 races with more than 4 competitors racing 20 laps or more.  Time to wake up and smell the coffee!!!!

[Sings4Speedway]

6 minutes ago, cinderfella said:

When you hear reports from tracks saying the largest crowds and income come from dirt track racing then it obviously shows that there are bike fans interested in oval circuit racing as they can relate to the machines.
Perhaps the fact these races are over more than 4 laps means better value for money? My sons liked speedway till I took them to a stock car meeting and we all realised it was much better value for money getting between 15 and 20 races with more than 4 competitors racing 20 laps or more.  Time to wake up and smell the coffee!!!!

Value for money is at the heart of it all. Most matches these days cost the same as a ticket to the zoo, outdoor adventure parks or many other motorsport activities and yet all other offer a full day out. Even local Grasstracks draw decent crowds because they don't occur very often and there is a variety of classes. Getting people to fork out week in week out is difficult for even the most devoted of supporters. 

[IainB]

Especially at the price being charged

[Sings4Speedway]

1 minute ago, iainb said:

Especially at the price being charged

The biggest growing class in Grasstrack at present is the adults GT140 class. Exactly as it says on the tine, standard bikes with 140cc out the box engines. Far cheaper to run and maintain than the current laydowns and produces good racing even with a mixture of amateurs. Not saying Speedway should go this route 100% but maybe meetings should be mixed into various capacity events? Same riders on different bikes? Different riders on different bikes? but all scoring towards a team total? Might not be perfect but would certainly shake things up a bit.

[PE7Panther]

17 hours ago, Noodles said:

Absolutely nothing at all.  It was always a risk running against the same team for three weeks on the trot and so it proved. Should have considered a scheme where if you produced your admission ticket from the first match at the second you got a discount/benefit, produce your admission tickets from the first & second meeting for further discounts/benefits at the third.   Doesn't have to be money off at the turnstiles - centre green visits, raffles to present rider of the night, ride with the team on parade vehicle, watch a race from the refs box - things that don't cost the club anything.

We were part of the MCN festival for two years running with hundreds of non speedway fans attending each time. Absolutely nothing was done that I'm aware of to interact with these people or to encourage them back. Should have been handing out discount vouchers with fixture lists, organised photograph/autograph sessions, hand out stickers/posters for the kids etc. (Something they could have done in partnership with BSPA as not all people would have been from the Peterborough area).

Surprisingly there appears to be a fairly strong fan base at Peterborough and I believe attendances can improve with some effort & promotion of the meetings themselves.

Our social media is virtually non existent. Other clubs promote matches by asking for retweets in return for prizes - again the prizes don't need to cost anything, they can be experiences you wouldn't normally get as a fan.

 

Spot on, on all counts.  Sad to say, this was a big failing on Ged's part.  Maybe he didn't have the time personally - fair enough - but it's something that could have, and should have, been delegated.  Then again, it's not just Ged; Frosty was no better really - but at least he wasn't so worried or pressured by finances.  

I'd guess that many people were a bit offended by his recent outburst, having a snidey little pop at the fans.  Ok, so the recent low crowds have been disappointing, but can anybody really say they're surprised?  Same opposition, so many injured riders, R/R every meeting, guests who were very hit and miss.  And then we had that appalling fandango when it took over an hour to get the lights sorted, and it was noticeable that all he seemed bothered about was having a little rant against Lakeside.  What it amounted to was "Sorry about the lights failing, but at least we... blah blah blah...  and we don't carryon like... blah blah blah".   Just get the feckin lights sorted and ffs get a move on!!!   Anyway, it would've been nice if he had focused more on the fact that attendances have been pretty good overall. 

 

    

 

  

Edited October 10, 2018 by PE7Panther

[PE7Panther]

11 hours ago, Sings4Speedway said:

Value for money is at the heart of it all. ...................

 

Getting people to fork out week in week out is difficult for even the most devoted of supporters. 

Yes, value for money is a key factor.

I personally am in the fortunate position of being able to comfortably afford it and will go to watch Panthers even if there's 3 meetings in a week.  But for most people cost is always going to be an issue.  Then it becomes a question of "is it worth it?".  And it's not just about is it worth the money that needs to be forked out; it's people's time.  We nearly always end up sitting through two hours just for about 15 minutes of actual racing!  (Ok, ok, maybe 20 minutes including re-runs etc.)   And the answer in many cases is clearly "no".  

It all takes far too long to get a meeting done and dusted.  We had a classic example recently; a rider touched the tapes and they all disappeared back to the pits, and after a few minutes the 2 minutes warning sounded, and it was double that before the race actually got underway.  It drives you nuts!  

Is it really thinking outside the box too much to wonder why we have only 15 heats for our hard-earned AND for the precious two-plus hours of our lives?   If they made it snappier we could have 20+ or maybe even 30 races in the same amount of time.  Organise it better and as one heat finishes, those four riders exit the pit gates and the next four enter the track straightaway.  And so on.  It'd be action followed by more action.   

The whole experience of going to speedway is just not good enough. Noodles is spot on in his post (qv). Something needs to be done to make it a better experience. 

 

[mikebv]

22 hours ago, foamfence said:

F2 but they won't give it a serious try. You can fit a 450cc motocross engine (made by all the leading manufacturers) into existing frames and some of them will accept heavier flywheels if necessary. You would have better reliability, longer service intervals and hydraulic clutches that rarely need adjusting or new plates. This country needs to go it alone and forget pandering to the poles etc.

Spot on...

British Superbikes and World Superbikes both have successful operating models with differing rules and regs...

And from time to time they even 'share riders'...

The same sport, with two differing levels...

Both successful because the smaller of the two doesn't try and compete with the larger one.

It just runs its own operating model with a fixture list driven only by their agenda, with no constantly adhoc moving meetings around to appease others. Lesser riders in overall standard maybe but with many of them being of a similar level it provides great racing and therefore entertainment..

British Speedway should model itself to become the Speedway equivalent of the BSB....

And let Poland and Sweden together be the WSB equivalent..

British Speedway cannot compete, so why bother trying?

Plough its own furrow and at least stand or fall by controlling its own destiny..

At the moment it is sinking and often it's due to the appeasement of the other more powerful leagues, which means fixture lists get compiled to suit riders and foreign clubs, rather than being planned in for nights when you can generate your best crowds..

When tracks inevitably face closure in Britain by using such a ludicrous business plan, will these foreign leagues offer financial assistance to save them in thanks for all the forelock tugging appeasement shown by the teams over here?

I think I know the answer..

 

Edited October 11, 2018 by mikebv

[Crump99]

10 hours ago, PE7Panther said:

Yes, value for money is a key factor.

I personally am in the fortunate position of being able to comfortably afford it and will go to watch Panthers even if there's 3 meetings in a week.  But for most people cost is always going to be an issue.  Then it becomes a question of "is it worth it?".  And it's not just about is it worth the money that needs to be forked out; it's people's time.  We nearly always end up sitting through two hours just for about 15 minutes of actual racing!  (Ok, ok, maybe 20 minutes including re-runs etc.)   And the answer in many cases is clearly "no".  

It all takes far too long to get a meeting done and dusted.  We had a classic example recently; a rider touched the tapes and they all disappeared back to the pits, and after a few minutes the 2 minutes warning sounded, and it was double that before the race actually got underway.  It drives you nuts!  

Is it really thinking outside the box too much to wonder why we have only 15 heats for our hard-earned AND for the precious two-plus hours of our lives?   If they made it snappier we could have 20+ or maybe even 30 races in the same amount of time.  Organise it better and as one heat finishes, those four riders exit the pit gates and the next four enter the track straightaway.  And so on.  It'd be action followed by more action.   

The whole experience of going to speedway is just not good enough. Noodles is spot on in his post (qv). Something needs to be done to make it a better experience. 

 

We've been saying the same at Peterborough for 15+ years though and here we are in crisis, possibly terminal this time, and what has changed? Not a lot and the product has got worse although I think that I saw somewhere that Chapman wrote in the Kings Lynn prog that the product is fine. We'll agree to disagree on that then which brings us back to presentation (inc effective running of the meeting), communication before and during the meeting and general promotion. After balancing the books and putting the team on track, those are the bits that often seem to get lip service. Probably Bratley was the best at that but he lives local and is born and bred but was ignored by Frost and Rathbone who couldn't do it from a distance, and if it was delegated then whoever was charged with the task didn't do a good enough job. Hopefully if we survive to 2019 then we get someone who appreciates what's needed.

Edited October 11, 2018 by Crump99

[IainB]

11 minutes ago, Crump99 said:

Chapman wrote in the Kings Lynn prog that the product is fine.

If Chapman thinks that what was served up last night and every time I've been to KL over the last 10 years or so is fine he really shouldn't be running the sport. KL used to be one of the very best places to watch exciting speedway and I'd regularly travel over from Leicester to watch it, that was back in the days of Henka & Loram, Richard Knight... Barum Trophy, Pride of the East (which has a whole different meaning these days ) I really don't know what's happened to the place, as the viewing facilities have got better the standard of racing is p poor... And to bring it back to Peterborough, I don't think it's been much better at the Showground this season, whenever I've been able to attend, usually on a Sunday afternoon, the track has been slick and dusty with little passing or close racing.

Edited October 11, 2018 by iainb