Kings Lynn v Poole Playoff Final 2nd leg 10/10/18

[cinderfella]

29 minutes ago, Daniel Smith said:

I fully understand where you are coming from with regards NKI. He stood there in front of the camera last night and said he was perfectly fine. He felt rough on Monday but perfectly fine today and will be available for the KO Cup. 

 

As regards NKI's injury, am i not right in thinking he was hospitalised with a head injury which would mean the concussion protocol would come into play and he has to sit out for a specific number of days. He maybe said he was fine and appeared so but medical opinion may have differed and that has to be the over- ruling factor.

[foreverblue]

4 minutes ago, Steve Shovlar said:

And what about the long list of ref calls that favoured Lynn last night?

Ah but Steve the KIngs Lynn fan behind me said it wasn't first bend bunching in heat 3 as it was after the first bend and the Poole rider should have got excluded!!

[IainB]

7 minutes ago, cinderfella said:

As regards NKI's injury, am i not right in thinking he was hospitalised with a head injury which would mean the concussion protocol would come into play and he has to sit out for a specific number of days. He maybe said he was fine and appeared so but medical opinion may have differed and that has to be the over- ruling factor.

I don't know that concussion has been mentioned by anyone until now... If it was concussion, fair enough... The only thing reported was head injury

[cinderfella]

1 minute ago, iainb said:

I don't know that concussion has been mentioned by anyone until now... If it was concussion, fair enough... The only thing reported was head injury

As someone with a medical background I know if a HIA is carried out the possibility of a delayed concussion must be considered and the proper actions taken.
Even if he appeared to escaped any brain injury on that occasion the possibility of another serious trauma shortly after has to be considered.
Rider's safety is paramount and has to be the first consideration. 

[hyabb17]

38 minutes ago, Steve Shovlar said:

Yes I correct that in my post but wasn’t quick enough!

just watching it now and when Woryna fell there was no way he did it on purpose or could have got up from that. The ref was completely wrong. The rules is there for a team on a 5-1 and one of the riders at the back lays it down to get a rerun. That wasn’t the situation last night. No wonder Nicolai was aggrieved. Ref massively favouring Kings Lynn in every decision.

I'm sorry but Woryna bailed out & stayed down. I think the ref got that one right.  Woryna  made a mistake coming out of bend 3. Tried to lean on Riss who was faster & came inside Woryna who then pooped himself & laid it down. Could have got up as wasn't injured. That's from a neutral perspective.

[Steve Shovlar]

1 minute ago, hyabb17 said:

I'm sorry but Woryna bailed out & stayed down. I think the ref got that one right.  Woryna  made a mistake coming out of bend 3. Tried to lean on Riss who was faster & came inside Woryna who then pooped himself & laid it down. Could have got up as wasn't injured. That's from a neutral perspective.

He didn’t “poop himself” He was fairly ridden wide by Riss and lost control. A world of difference than be tailed off then just slide off to get a rerun. That was the reason the rule was brought in. Kasper hit the fence fairly hard and I doubt any rider would have got up and cleared the track in about 10 seconds. Ref abused the rule.

[paulboy]

1 minute ago, Steve Shovlar said:

He didn’t “poop himself” He was fairly ridden wide by Riss and lost control. A world of difference than be tailed off then just slide off to get a rerun. That was the reason the rule was brought in. Kasper hit the fence fairly hard and I doubt any rider would have got up and cleared the track in about 10 seconds. Ref abused the rule.

Yet when Toft had his leg taken away he "bailed out"?

[hyabb17]

Just now, Steve Shovlar said:

He didn’t “poop himself” He was fairly ridden wide by Riss and lost control. A world of difference than be tailed off then just slide off to get a rerun. That was the reason the rule was brought in. Kasper hit the fence fairly hard and I doubt any rider would have got up and cleared the track in about 10 seconds. Ref abused the rule.

Of course he did, could have backed off & not try to ''lean'' on Riss. He caused his own downfall. Whether Klindt should have gone off 15 is another matter.

[hyabb17]

1 minute ago, paulboy said:

Yet when Toft had his leg taken away he "bailed out"?

Exactly.

[dontforgetthefueltapsbruv]

The rule re starting off 15m in a re run mentions nothing about it being in place just for situations where a rider stays down

It states it is at the sole discretion of the ref where riders of one team are in 3rd and 4th at the time of the stoppage

[pointsmeanplayoffs]

4 minutes ago, Steve Shovlar said:

He didn’t “poop himself” He was fairly ridden wide by Riss and lost control. A world of difference than be tailed off then just slide off to get a rerun. That was the reason the rule was brought in. Kasper hit the fence fairly hard and I doubt any rider would have got up and cleared the track in about 10 seconds. Ref abused the rule.

I think the way he looked up, saw that the state of the race, and then stayed down was the reason the ref put Klindt off 15M.

I didn't know the rule existed to be honest, think it worked well in that situation.

[KLFAN]

At the end of the day the record books will show Poole as 2018 SGB Champions. However so we do not have this situation where the best team over the season does not ultimately become Champions perhaps some allowance should be made for topping the league (apart from pick of opponents and choice of home or away leg first). 

Ultimately King's Lynn finished 9 points ahead of Poole in the table so perhaps KL should have been given a 9 point start for the final. Opinions?

[hyabb17]

2 minutes ago, KLFAN said:

At the end of the day the record books will show Poole as 2018 SGB Champions. However so we do not have this situation where the best team over the season does not ultimately become Champions perhaps some allowance should be made for topping the league (apart from pick of opponents and choice of home or away leg first). 

Ultimately King's Lynn finished 9 points ahead of Poole in the table so perhaps KL should have been given a 9 point start for the final. Opinions?

I think they do (or did) that in the Danish final, top start with so many points & so on.

[Grachan]

3 minutes ago, KLFAN said:

At the end of the day the record books will show Poole as 2018 SGB Champions. However so we do not have this situation where the best team over the season does not ultimately become Champions perhaps some allowance should be made for topping the league (apart from pick of opponents and choice of home or away leg first). 

Ultimately King's Lynn finished 9 points ahead of Poole in the table so perhaps KL should have been given a 9 point start for the final. Opinions?

I do think that there should be some sort of recognition to finishing top of the league - perhaps a trophy of some sort. However, the play-offs need to remain the main prize.

[Supersub]

5 minutes ago, KLFAN said:

At the end of the day the record books will show Poole as 2018 SGB Champions. However so we do not have this situation where the best team over the season does not ultimately become Champions perhaps some allowance should be made for topping the league (apart from pick of opponents and choice of home or away leg first). 

Ultimately King's Lynn finished 9 points ahead of Poole in the table so perhaps KL should have been given a 9 point start for the final. Opinions?

Poole have finished top before and lost in play off, e.g. against Coventry who had also been bottom of league but by careful manipulation had Pawlicki at reserve. 

[Daniel Smith]

46 minutes ago, cinderfella said:

As regards NKI's injury, am i not right in thinking he was hospitalised with a head injury which would mean the concussion protocol would come into play and he has to sit out for a specific number of days. He maybe said he was fine and appeared so but medical opinion may have differed and that has to be the over- ruling factor.

Concussion lay off is only a BSPA regulation if the concussion happens in a BSPA run meeting.

As Niels injury was in Poland the concussion rule doesn't exist. 

The fact he said on live TV he felt perfectly fine doesn't sit well with me.

[KLFAN]

1 minute ago, Grachan said:

I do think that there should be some sort of recognition to finishing top of the league - perhaps a trophy of some sort. However, the play-offs need to remain the main prize.

Yes I agree

 

1 minute ago, Supersub said:

Poole have finished top before and lost in play off, e.g. against Coventry who had also been bottom of league but by careful manipulation had Pawlicki at reserve. 

Exactly why the points should be carried forward. I believe in 2010 Poole finished in excess of 20 points above Coventry. Had these points been taken into account it would of made for a fairer outcome.

[Steve Shovlar]

14 minutes ago, KLFAN said:

At the end of the day the record books will show Poole as 2018 SGB Champions. However so we do not have this situation where the best team over the season does not ultimately become Champions perhaps some allowance should be made for topping the league (apart from pick of opponents and choice of home or away leg first). 

Ultimately King's Lynn finished 9 points ahead of Poole in the table so perhaps KL should have been given a 9 point start for the final. Opinions?

So what would the point of the playoff final be, if you did that in 2010 Poole would have started with +24 over Coventry.

The rules are fine. Table toppers get the pick plus the second leg of the final. 

To give a trophy for finishing top would diminish the playoffs, meaning it becomes the side show. That in turn would reduce crowds. 

The playoffs have worked brilliantly since 2002. Why change? Imagine if there were no playoffs and one team romped away by the end of June? The whole season would be dead in the water for the other teams.

Edited October 11, 2018 by Steve Shovlar

[IainB]

36 minutes ago, cinderfella said:

As someone with a medical background I know if a HIA is carried out the possibility of a delayed concussion must be considered and the proper actions taken.
Even if he appeared to escaped any brain injury on that occasion the possibility of another serious trauma shortly after has to be considered.
Rider's safety is paramount and has to be the first consideration. 

As someone with no medical background and have never fallen off of a motorbike... It just didn't stack up as concussion had never been mentioned

[KLFAN]

2 minutes ago, Steve Shovlar said:

So what would the point of the playoff final be, if you did that in 2010 Poole would have started with +24 over Coventry.

The rules are fine. Table toppers get the pick plus the second leg of the final. 

To give a trophy for finishing top would diminish the playoffs, meaning it becomes the side show. That in turn would reduce crowds. 

The playoffs have worked brilliantly since 2002. Why change? Imagine if there were no playoffs and one team romed away by the end of June? The whole season would be dead in the water for the other teams.

The 'play offs' are purely a marketing exercise to keep the TV companies happy. I think in 2010  Poole finished 26 points ahead of Coventry in the table, however Coventry beat Poole by 22 points in the finals. Had Poole been able to carry over their 26 point advantage it actually would have made for a better final.