Kings Lynn v Poole Playoff Final 2nd leg 10/10/18

[Grachan]

3 minutes ago, Steve Shovlar said:

So what would the point of the playoff final be, if you did that in 2010 Poole would have started with +24 over Coventry.

The rules are fine. Table toppers get the pick plus the second leg of the final. 

To give a trophy for finishing top would diminish the playoffs, meaning it becomes the side show. That in turn would reduce crowds. 

The playoffs have worked brilliantly since 2002. Why change? Imagine if there were no playoffs and one team romped away by the end of June? The whole season would be dead in the water for the other teams.

I'm not so sure.

British Basketball, for example, has League Champions and then has play-off champions. The play-offs final is at the 02 and has crowds much bigger than any league match.

[Odds On]

perhaps a trophy for the team who wins the league then the top four compete in the play offs?

I personally think you will still get the same buzz.

[racers and royals]

22 minutes ago, hyabb17 said:

I think they do (or did) that in the Danish final, top start with so many points & so on.

The Danes did but dropped it 2 years ago- the taple toppers at the regular season end host the 4 team final.

[paulboy]

8 minutes ago, Grachan said:

I'm not so sure.

British Basketball, for example, has League Champions and then has play-off champions. The play-offs final is at the 02 and has crowds much bigger than any league match.

As does Rugby League

[cinderfella]

21 minutes ago, iainb said:

As someone with no medical background and have never fallen off of a motorbike... It just didn't stack up as concussion had never been mentioned

Lucky you - on both counts lol

[tellboy]

15 minutes ago, Grachan said:

I'm not so sure.

British Basketball, for example, has League Champions and then has play-off champions. The play-offs final is at the 02 and has crowds much bigger than any league match.

You would think there would be some kind of recognition to finishing the league top wouldn't you.Only in speedway do you get diddly squat.Just another trophy made would be ok wouldn't it.

[MrMungo]

Congrats to Poole - one hell of a comeback from 3 or 4 months ago. Very impressive how they clawed themselves back into contention, and honestly have looked the best side (narrowly) in the second half of the season.

King's Lynn obviously were unfortunate to lose Palm Toft at Poole, but some of their own failures are of their own doing. Why, oh why, would you replace your best reserve (who admittedly was not at his best) when you needed 2 5-1s to take it to golden heats? (where you'd be big favourites!) Howarth off gate 1 had a more than fair chance of getting the 5-1 with TJ, but Dale Allitt decided to bring in Lambert who had done very little over the 2 legs apart from a shock paid win when he looked to have jumped the gate (Proctor certainly did, anyway). Certainly if the roles had been reversed, and Middlo had made that blunder, it would have its own thread on here by now!

There's an unreal of Poole hatred which I guess makes it all the sweeter for the Poole contigent. And honestly, so it should given some of the unfair comments they have to endure. 

Lots of talk about heat 12 at Poole, and whilst it was a dubious decision, heat 3 last night was just as bad. Jørgensen should have been out 100%, and whilst you can't predict what would have happened, that 6 point (approx) swing evened out Palm Toft's unfortunate hand injury at Poole. 

Imagine we will see some big changes next year. A better standard of tracks (Belle Vue excluded) would be a good start along with eliminating averages, but a better standard of Speedway supporters would be just as good if the childish bickering on the Play-Off Final threads is anything to go by!

[cinderfella]

1 minute ago, tellboy said:

You would think there would be some kind of recognition to finishing the league top wouldn't you.Only in speedway do you get diddly squat.Just another trophy made would be ok wouldn't it.

Did they not try some sort of competition (called the Young Shield I think) a few years ago where the top finishing club participated in a season finale?

 

[Star Lady]

40 minutes ago, Daniel Smith said:

Concussion lay off is only a BSPA regulation if the concussion happens in a BSPA run meeting.

As Niels injury was in Poland the concussion rule doesn't exist. 

The fact he said on live TV he felt perfectly fine doesn't sit well with me.

Concussion knows no borders. As you say the injury was in Poland so was any suspension. Would you have preferred him to ride, possibly fell and caused himself or heaven forbid another rider to sustain a serious injury?

I'm no great fan of NKI but concussion has to be taken seriously.

So sorry but you are talking out of the back of your head/ar5e *

*delete as appropriate.

[cinderfella]

THE FIM have the power to enforce head injury suspension.

Sadly riders all seem to think they are superhuman and can ride through anything because at the end of the day all they see is their bank balances.
We've all witnessed rider claiming they are fine after a fall only to pull out of meetings.
As Star Lady rightly says the bigger picture has to looked at and the safety of other riders, those on the centre green and in the pits as well as fans has to be the priority.

Edited October 11, 2018 by cinderfella
Spelling error

[Bleeds Pirate Blue]

Went back and watched Palm-Toft decision in Heat 12 at Poole, and my interpretation was MPT was willing to go down there and that's what got him excluded. Yes there was contact, albeit slight. MPT then runs a little wider and then makes a tactical decision a split second later to lay it down as he knows he's lost the position, and there was contact, so nine times out of ten he thinks a ref will exclude Jacobsen.

In my opinion he should have been able to withstand the contact and ride on - we see much bigger contact in the first bend without incident all the time. It's not right to call it a "dive" by MPT, it's more a veteran move by a savvy rider expecting a decision to go his way, which the ref didn't give him. I can totally understand why Poole-haters and Kings Lynn fans are aggrieved, BUT, I'd like to see more ref's take Ackroyd's stance and exclude the falling rider for making not enough effort to stay on his bike after incidental contact. Please note I am NOT accusing MPT of being a cheat. What he did is part and parcel of the way speedway riders act because it's ingrained in them. 

As for the Woryna incident at Kings Lynn, my take on the matter was that he lost control as he was pushed wide by the clean pass on the inside. Zero contact, but in his efforts to defend the move he went down. Seemed like he was slightly shook up, but it's highly likely if Poole weren't being 5-1'd he have found the adrenaline to at least try and get off the track. He defo had a look to see the rider's position's and that made him stay down. Do I like this? No. I always cheer ALL riders who clear the track after a crash, but is it part of speedway tactics - yup. It's one of those where if the rider does clear the track when being 5-1'd he'll be labelled naive by fans of his team!!

I'd add that while Kings Lynn were on a clear 5-1, isn't the rule that the rider had to purposely lay it down to draw a re-run, and that's what triggers the 15m handicap? I don't think that's what happened here...

 

Just wanted to give an attempt at an even-handed Poole supporter's opinion... 

[Bagpuss]

53 minutes ago, tellboy said:

You would think there would be some kind of recognition to finishing the league top wouldn't you.Only in speedway do you get diddly squat.Just another trophy made would be ok wouldn't it.

It’s been said before but Super League Rugby awards a league winners shield and that seems like a perfect way to recognise the team who finished top to me. 

[Bagpuss]

52 minutes ago, MrMungo said:

Congrats to Poole - one hell of a comeback from 3 or 4 months ago. Very impressive how they clawed themselves back into contention, and honestly have looked the best side (narrowly) in the second half of the season.

King's Lynn obviously were unfortunate to lose Palm Toft at Poole, but some of their own failures are of their own doing. Why, oh why, would you replace your best reserve (who admittedly was not at his best) when you needed 2 5-1s to take it to golden heats? (where you'd be big favourites!) Howarth off gate 1 had a more than fair chance of getting the 5-1 with TJ, but Dale Allitt decided to bring in Lambert who had done very little over the 2 legs apart from a shock paid win when he looked to have jumped the gate (Proctor certainly did, anyway). Certainly if the roles had been reversed, and Middlo had made that blunder, it would have its own thread on here by now!

There's an unreal of Poole hatred which I guess makes it all the sweeter for the Poole contigent. And honestly, so it should given some of the unfair comments they have to endure. 

Lots of talk about heat 12 at Poole, and whilst it was a dubious decision, heat 3 last night was just as bad. Jørgensen should have been out 100%, and whilst you can't predict what would have happened, that 6 point (approx) swing evened out Palm Toft's unfortunate hand injury at Poole. 

Imagine we will see some big changes next year. A better standard of tracks (Belle Vue excluded) would be a good start along with eliminating averages, but a better standard of Speedway supporters would be just as good if the childish bickering on the Play-Off Final threads is anything to go by!

Don’t necessarily agree with the Jorgensen bit but the rest is pure sense, you should post more often  

Have said elsewhere that Poole deserve a lot of credit for signing Harris and Klindt when they were riding like a pair of old women and getting good form out of them. Fair play. 

I personally think if Iversen, Palm Toft and Kurtz had all ridden in both legs we’d have scored 100 points or so and won comfortably. But we’ll never know, and if my auntie had balls etc. 

Maybe next year.

[wolvesstarman]

I live in the West Midlands and classify myself as a Wolves fan, but before that lived in East Anglia and for many years Lynn was my local track. Yes, I admit I'm biased, and really, really wanted Lynn to win, and had they been able to field the riders available as at the completion of the Torun GP I'm sure they'd have walked it. The loss of Niels, and his subsequent replacement with an inferior guest, was probably not in itself the fatal blow; that was the incident at Poole that undeservedly led to MPT's exclusion when he clearly received a push from the Poole rider on the inside (Specsavers anybody ? I assume the ref had tv replays available, and it was clearly visible on BT Sport) albeit not deliberately or maliciously, and his subsequent loss from the rest of that meeting and the second leg on Wednesday.

[cinderfella]

3 minutes ago, Bagpuss said:

 But we’ll never know, and if my auntie had balls etc. 

 

She be a juggler?

[IainB]

1 minute ago, ouch said:

It’s hard to take but I’ll just walk it off or I might go for a run. Lol. 

That's pretty poor

[cinderfella]

13 hours ago, lisa-colette said:

Seems like Darcy has a message for most of you!!....

Darcy Ward # 4⃣ 3⃣‏Verified account @D_Dublu_racing 53m53 minutes ago

More

To all the poole haters and trolls. hope the MIGHTY PIRATES win is really hitting you hard and deep in your souls woooohhoooo

Got to say that's pretty poor when you consider the number of Star fans and from all other teams that contributed to appeals to help him after his tragic accident.

[wolvesstarman]

27 minutes ago, Bagpuss said:

Don’t necessarily agree with the Jorgensen bit but the rest is pure sense, you should post more often  

Have said elsewhere that Poole deserve a lot of credit for signing Harris and Klindt when they were riding like a pair of old women and getting good form out of them. Fair play. 

I personally think if Iversen, Palm Toft and Kurtz had all ridden in both legs we’d have scored 100 points or so and won comfortably. But we’ll never know, and if my auntie had balls etc. 

Maybe next year.

Certainly agree with the statement re Harris and Klindt, and that Poole got the best out of them.

Had Harris ridden for Poole in the 2018 final as he did for us (Wolves) in the 2017 final when he was, quite frankly, pathetic, then they'd have had no chance.

And I've long since had the theory that if you're prepared to err on the side of robust and go wheel-to-wheel with Klindt in the first bend, then he'll back out of it and in all likelihood tail off. The proviso with that is that you've got to be able to gate with him, and for much of the final Lynn couldn't do that.

Edited October 11, 2018 by wolvesstarman

[Starman2006]

3 hours ago, Steve Shovlar said:

Well first of all, what a fabulous victory! Wooohooooo!

Arrived into the stadium early last night to watch Buster dump tons of shale on the track. He forgot the potatoes though! 

Very big crowd last night. But throughout the night the Pirates kept them relatively quiet. Most of the noise coming from the couple of hundred Poole fans who made the long trip up from Dorset.

Really though, Why didn’t the ref exclude Jorgensen in heat 3? Both wheels clearly over the white line. Then later he stuck Nicolai off 15 metres. Did he actually think Woryna laid it down on purpose to get a rerun? Ref failed Poole three times to give Kings Lynn advantage. Shocking. In heat 9 Jorgensen ploughs into Morris. Clearly an unsatisfactory start but the ref let it go. If those calls had been the other way around this forum would have gone into meltdown.

Middlo, who has clearly been the best manager in the league for a long, long time, again showed why with a cool head and motivating his team. Well done Niel.

Commiserations to Kings Lynn. We know what it’s like to finish top and lose out. But those first 5 heats at Wimborne Road sealed your fate. A team can’t turn up at their most important meeting of the season and not be prepared or in the correct mind frame. They were simply blown away, just like Belle Vue were when Poole went there in 2015. The final starts in heat one first leg. 

As I predicted before the meeting started the track was set up grippy meaning very little in the way of passing. Not a meeting for the neutral or Poole hater to enjoy. Winning the playoff final  is far more important than the racing spectacle. There’s just too much at stake.

 

 

 

Yup agree with best part of your post Steve. Buster should take up farming and killed the meeting as a spectical, but with the grading and the track getting  slightly slicker over time it should have  played into our hands a little.But i must admit they had me sweating for a bit, i said on one of our forums, the match is not a given, the job was far from finished even with a 16 pt lead.
Cant fault what you say about Neil, i watch him at close quarters every week, and he's very good at what he does. Theres only two other managers who come close imo and thats Rosco and Gary May. I know that Neil would never take the team GB job again, and if Rosco decided eventually to call it a day, i would have no hesitation whatsoever in giving the Team GB job to Gary May. Like both Neil and Rosco, riders like to ride for him.
Last but not least, i and im also very sure many if they told the truth  that Jorgensen should have been excluded in heat 3, every angle you look at saw both his wheels over the white line. I hear Specsavers is very good for your vision REF.
In the meantime, we are Champions again and back in our rightful place, i make it 8 now in the last 15 years and several runners up to boot.

Edited October 11, 2018 by Starman2006

[ouch]

9 minutes ago, iainb said:

That's pretty poor

Woooohhoooo