ColinMills Posted October 7, 2018 Report Share Posted October 7, 2018 this past /present debate is clearly individual preference, for me, I preferred 70s in both league and world championships...everybody has different view, but at least I actually seen both... 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BWitcher Posted October 7, 2018 Report Share Posted October 7, 2018 4 minutes ago, tyler42 said: Team Monster last year in the last round? or does that not count And it was correctly condemned.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColinMills Posted October 7, 2018 Report Share Posted October 7, 2018 7 minutes ago, BWitcher said: Yes it was so credible that riders were regularly 'buying pts' of others in World Championships.. others were letting countrymen beat them in order for them both to qualify.. Indeed it was so credible the national press ran an expose on it and the sport hit a massive down turn ever since with mainstream media turning their backs. joe screen/ mark loram? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BWitcher Posted October 7, 2018 Report Share Posted October 7, 2018 2 minutes ago, ColinMills said: this past /present debate is clearly individual preference, for me, I preferred 70s in both league and world championships...everybody has different view, but at least I actually seen both... Preferring is a different argument. Almost everyone would prefer back then as it was bigger crowds and better atmosphere. The league format made it seem like there were so many top line stars, reality was still there were just four or five above the others as there is now and pretty much always has been. However, it doesn't make it in any possible way a better way to decide the World Title. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BWitcher Posted October 7, 2018 Report Share Posted October 7, 2018 2 minutes ago, ColinMills said: joe screen/ mark loram? Doing well.. two cases in 16 years so far. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tyler42 Posted October 7, 2018 Report Share Posted October 7, 2018 2 minutes ago, Daniel Smith said: The best and fair way to say which rider's were better than others is by individual titles. Even over generations. Mager and Rickardsson are the best of the best and can't possibly be disputed. They're very much at the top for everyone because of the number of world titles. So, to be the best British rider it also has to be judged on the world stage individually. Tai Woffinden tops the chart of the greatest ever British rider. You forgot to add 'In you're opinion" Thats because as this thread has demonstrated. the debate can go on for ever about who is the best British rider. 2 minutes ago, BWitcher said: And it was correctly condemned.. Of course and rightly so, but it does show it can still go on in the sport. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tyler42 Posted October 7, 2018 Report Share Posted October 7, 2018 1 minute ago, BWitcher said: Doing well.. two cases in 16 years so far. but, how do you know there has only been two cases? There has been a few drug related problems as well over the last few years. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColinMills Posted October 7, 2018 Report Share Posted October 7, 2018 Just now, BWitcher said: Doing well.. two cases in 16 years so far. two we know of.....look, carry on enjoying what you have if it floats YOUR boat, it just has very stale appeal to me...same line up different week, as for league racing, not a single crowd puller in sight Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BWitcher Posted October 7, 2018 Report Share Posted October 7, 2018 Just now, ColinMills said: two we know of.....look, carry on enjoying what you have if it floats YOUR boat, it just has very stale appeal to me...same line up different week, as for league racing, not a single crowd puller in sight It's nothing to do with what 'floats my boat'. You questioned the credibility of the GP which is utterly ludicrous as it wipes the floor with the old World Championship in terms of credibility. League racing in Britain is a different matter. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BWitcher Posted October 7, 2018 Report Share Posted October 7, 2018 (edited) 3 minutes ago, tyler42 said: but, how do you know there has only been two cases? There has been a few drug related problems as well over the last few years. Dear me. You really can't be this dumb can you? Seriously? You want to go down the 'drug' route now to try and discredit modern speedway compared to how it used to be? Try actually thinking about what you are posting. Come on, you only need to claim there were so many more great heat leaders back in the day and you've have really hit the jackpot. Edited October 7, 2018 by BWitcher Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel Smith Posted October 7, 2018 Report Share Posted October 7, 2018 1 minute ago, tyler42 said: You forgot to add 'In you're opinion" Thats because as this thread has demonstrated. the debate can go on for ever about who is the best British rider. Of course and rightly so, but it does show it can still go on in the sport. Not opinion but fact. Speedway is an individual sport and being the greatest rider individually is based on world individual titles. Opinion is having a favourite rider that you believe to be the best without statistics to back it up. My all time favourite rider has always been Nicki Pedersen from his time at King's Lynn onwards. He's my all time favourite rider, 'the best there's ever been' but I know and understand that he factually isn't the greatest of all time. Factually, Tai Woffinden is the greatest ever British Speedway rider. The numbers don't lie. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BWitcher Posted October 7, 2018 Report Share Posted October 7, 2018 7 minutes ago, Daniel Smith said: Not opinion but fact. Speedway is an individual sport and being the greatest rider individually is based on world individual titles. Opinion is having a favourite rider that you believe to be the best without statistics to back it up. My all time favourite rider has always been Nicki Pedersen from his time at King's Lynn onwards. He's my all time favourite rider, 'the best there's ever been' but I know and understand that he factually isn't the greatest of all time. Factually, Tai Woffinden is the greatest ever British Speedway rider. The numbers don't lie. This hits the nail on the head. To me Sam Ermolenko is the greatest rider of all time. Although I will say if people come up with 'facts' to say otherwise they're wrong 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tyler42 Posted October 7, 2018 Report Share Posted October 7, 2018 7 minutes ago, BWitcher said: Dear me. You really can't be this dumb can you? Seriously? You want to go down the 'drug' route now to try and discredit modern speedway compared to how it used to be? Try actually thinking about what you are posting. Come on, you only need to claim there were so many more great heat leaders back in the day and you've have really hit the jackpot. Why the insult ? So lets look at the British League, Don't come back with ''I ment Polish league" Because you're argument is based on this country leagues. A 1st division which is made up of nearly all 2nd division riders. Must be so hard being a heat leader in todays tough format? Bet Ole.Ivan or PC would be shaking in there boots at the thought of having to race against bomber and co 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColinMills Posted October 7, 2018 Report Share Posted October 7, 2018 3 minutes ago, BWitcher said: This hits the nail on the head. To me Sam Ermolenko is the greatest rider of all time. Although I will say if people come up with 'facts' to say otherwise they're wrong for me Ole Olsen....its all a viewpoint, that's all.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikebv Posted October 7, 2018 Report Share Posted October 7, 2018 11 minutes ago, BWitcher said: It's nothing to do with what 'floats my boat'. You questioned the credibility of the GP which is utterly ludicrous as it wipes the floor with the old World Championship in terms of credibility. League racing in Britain is a different matter. Correct.. When the Sport had it's most mainstream media coverage, it was due to individual and international team events being shown/written about in the main.. The icing on the cake was a rider like PC who could thrill the generic sport watcher with his endeavour and success which naturally attracted the media who love a British success story.. The coverage didn't transcend to domestic speedway in the main so it's 'dodgy' rules didn't impact the overall domestic crowds like they do today in the modern instant news, internet age... It's ironic that as the Sport in Britain has become more and more less credible over the past 20 years or so, the Sport has enjoyed the most coverage domestically it ever has.. A shame, and a huge opportunity missed... Especially when you have a rider like Tai who ticks so many boxes re demographic, personality and above all, talent.. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColinMills Posted October 7, 2018 Report Share Posted October 7, 2018 (edited) 3 minutes ago, tyler42 said: Why the insult ? So lets look at the British League, Don't come back with ''I ment Polish league" Because you're argument is based on this country leagues. A 1st division which is made up of nearly all 2nd division riders. Must be so hard being a heat leader in todays tough format? Bet Ole.Ivan or PC would be shaking in there boots at the thought of having to race against bomber and co awful league, its on life support...you now have reports of "bumper crowds" when theres only 1,500 in the place! Edited October 7, 2018 by ColinMills Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BWitcher Posted October 7, 2018 Report Share Posted October 7, 2018 1 minute ago, tyler42 said: Why the insult ? So lets look at the British League, Don't come back with ''I ment Polish league" Because you're argument is based on this country leagues. A 1st division which is made up of nearly all 2nd division riders. Must be so hard being a heat leader in todays tough format? Bet Ole.Ivan or PC would be shaking in there boots at the thought of having to race against bomber and co My argument isn't based upon 'this countrys' leagues at all. It's based upon facts. Facts which you clearly do not understand. Ole, Ivan and PC wouldn't be shaking in their boots in any era as they were the top dogs of there time. However, put the 10-20th best riders in today's format and all of a sudden they're not the stars they were in the 70's. They soon become the Bombers of the league. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColinMills Posted October 7, 2018 Report Share Posted October 7, 2018 (edited) 5 minutes ago, BWitcher said: My argument isn't based upon 'this countrys' leagues at all. It's based upon facts. Facts which you clearly do not understand. Ole, Ivan and PC wouldn't be shaking in their boots in any era as they were the top dogs of there time. However, put the 10-20th best riders in today's format and all of a sudden they're not the stars they were in the 70's. They soon become the Bombers of the league. actually think that's a tad unfair on their ability, as for that period, they WERE the best, and as we all know, you can only beat whats in front of you, and ALL sports progress...Bristow wouldn't get near a title today, but stars of yesteryear, leads us to where we are today Edited October 7, 2018 by ColinMills Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BWitcher Posted October 7, 2018 Report Share Posted October 7, 2018 3 minutes ago, ColinMills said: actually think that's a tad unfair on their ability, as for that period, they WERE the best, and as we all know, you can only beat whats in front of you, and ALL sports progress...Bristow wouldn't get near a title today, but stars of yesteryear, leads us to where we are today It has absolutely nothing to do with their 'ability'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tyler42 Posted October 7, 2018 Report Share Posted October 7, 2018 Would you not agree, It would be a lot easer to gain a higher average from 25 meetings in todays league setup than to attain the same average over 42 matches back in the day. With your Thinking riders like Alan Wilkinson, Gordon Kennett, Trevor Hedge etc. Would in your opinion soon become no better than Bombers of todays league? Very interesting analogy. But of course you know all the facts. Just like i'm still waiting to hear back from you regarding your comment you made earlier in the day i quote ' One gives you the best rider in the world or at the very least very, very close to it every single time. The other allows a random winner who is nowhere near the best rider in the world to win.. as has happened numerous times. It's a no brainer. I think the facts proved you wrong on that one. So please don't quote facts unless you can back them up. Theres a good boy. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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