Grachan Posted October 26, 2018 Report Share Posted October 26, 2018 23 hours ago, Fred Flange said: The point is Holder hasn't been in the running since Ward's injury. How can it be considered ridiculous to suggest that the drop in Holders form was due to what happened to Ward? It is as I said the complete opposite. I think you have misunderstood what people are saying. Nobody is saying Darcy's injury didn't affect Chris Holder. What people are saying is that the ability to overcome an obstacle such as that is part of determining how great a rider is - such as Peter Collins overcoming his own fears that he had in the immediate aftermath of Tommy Jansson's accident. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BWitcher Posted October 26, 2018 Report Share Posted October 26, 2018 Another ingredient is luck. Someone like Greg Hancock for instance has been able to ride for as long as he has because he has managed, for the most part, to avoid serious injury. Now much of that is down to the way he rides, but even the safest of riders can be wiped out by others. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve roberts Posted October 27, 2018 Report Share Posted October 27, 2018 14 hours ago, Fred Flange said: Sorry, when I read... I thought that meant it was ridiculous to suggest wards injury affected holder how I had suggested. Thanks for clearing it up. I still don't think it made woofinden a better rider or better sportsman? I didn't see an improvement in his riding ability, I'd say it was about the same. Wards injury obviously finished his career and the affect it had on holder was similar to the effect the injury PC had at Cradley, when Gundersen lost control and badly smashed up PC's shoulder, effectively ending his career as a true world title contender. Yes remember the occasion when the track was deemed unfit for racing initially and the meeting was postponed during the morning. However thru', I believe, the intervention of the BSPA that decision was overturned and the meeting went ahead despite reservations by those directly involved and the subsequent injury PC received and still has problems with today apparently. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BWitcher Posted October 27, 2018 Report Share Posted October 27, 2018 17 hours ago, Fred Flange said: Sorry, when I read... I thought that meant it was ridiculous to suggest wards injury affected holder how I had suggested. Thanks for clearing it up. I still don't think it made woofinden a better rider or better sportsman? I didn't see an improvement in his riding ability, I'd say it was about the same. Wards injury obviously finished his career and the affect it had on holder was similar to the effect the injury PC had at Cradley, when Gundersen lost control and badly smashed up PC's shoulder, effectively ending his career as a true world title contender. That's the whole point, some riders over the years have been able to cope with such things better, meaning they go on to achieve more success in their career. It's an important ingredient to the longevity and success of a career as I mentioned earlier. Take Ermolenko and his injuries in 89. For many riders that would have been the end or they would have come back a shell of the rider they once were, yet he came back even better. He then had a further smash at the end of 93 and broke his leg again and was never quite the same again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BWitcher Posted October 28, 2018 Report Share Posted October 28, 2018 2 minutes ago, Fred Flange said: Yes, I know? It's like being in a race with three people and one opponent has to pull out completely and another is so upset over something he isn't able to compete at the same level. You're no better but once your two main challengers are out of the running your chances of winning are improved a bit. I'm sure emolenkos opponents had a slightly easier time of it when he was out of the running due to his injuries. No, not like that at all. Two riders have a crash and get injured. One is mentally strong enough to overcome it and resume his career at a higher level, the other isn't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geoff100 Posted March 10, 2019 Report Share Posted March 10, 2019 Had to laugh in this weeks "star" calling himself the greatest british rider, i have only been watching my fav sport for 50 yrs and could rattle off loads who i think are better anyone agree? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iris123 Posted March 10, 2019 Report Share Posted March 10, 2019 Despite over 60 pages discussing this topic,someone just started the basic thing all over again,asking for peoples opinions.I had to laugh.Anyone else agree ? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geoff100 Posted March 10, 2019 Report Share Posted March 10, 2019 5 minutes ago, iris123 said: Despite over 60 pages discussing this topic,someone just started the basic thing all over again,asking for peoples opinions.I had to laugh.Anyone else agree ? When i grow up i hope i am as clever as u as i didnt see the previous links otherwise wouldnt have started another one ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iris123 Posted March 10, 2019 Report Share Posted March 10, 2019 6 minutes ago, geoff100 said: When i grow up i hope i am as clever as u as i didnt see the previous links otherwise wouldnt have started another one ! Not about being clever,just following the forum guidelines ya know Starting Topics Before you start a thread, check to see if a similar thread has already been started. Duplicate threads will be closed. Please make your title descriptive, reflecting the topic you're addressing, rather than a generic title such as "Question" or "I Need Help." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lucifer sam Posted March 10, 2019 Report Share Posted March 10, 2019 (edited) On 10/27/2018 at 10:16 AM, BWitcher said: That's the whole point, some riders over the years have been able to cope with such things better, meaning they go on to achieve more success in their career. It's an important ingredient to the longevity and success of a career as I mentioned earlier. Take Ermolenko and his injuries in 89. For many riders that would have been the end or they would have come back a shell of the rider they once were, yet he came back even better. He then had a further smash at the end of 93 and broke his leg again and was never quite the same again. Sam's comeback from the '89 injury was remarkable. But maybe he wasn't as hungry enough to do it after the '93 smash, as he was already World Champion. So there's maybe a parallel between him and Chris Holder, as one-time World Champions who lost their mojo after winning a single title. Gary Havelock could also be added to that list. It takes someone truly remarkable to win three or four or five or six titles. Very few years have had the mixture of determination and ability to do that. Edited March 10, 2019 by lucifer sam Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BWitcher Posted March 10, 2019 Report Share Posted March 10, 2019 37 minutes ago, lucifer sam said: Sam's comeback from the '89 injury was remarkable. But maybe he wasn't as hungry enough to do it after the '93 smash, as he was already World Champion. So there's maybe a parallel between him and Chris Holder, as one-time World Champions who lost their mojo after winning a single title. Gary Havelock could also be added to that list. It takes someone truly remarkable to win three or four or five or six titles. Very few years have had the mixture of determination and ability to do that. I agree with much of what you're saying, but not sure it applies quite as much in Sam's case (although perhaps a little). He still came 3rd in the world again, won BLRC's etc, averaged 10+. He just wasn't quite the same, primarily I think because his riding style changed after the 93 smash. Also quite a bit older too, harder to recover the older you get. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The White Knight Posted March 10, 2019 Report Share Posted March 10, 2019 3 hours ago, geoff100 said: Had to laugh in this weeks "star" calling himself the greatest british rider, i have only been watching my fav sport for 50 yrs and could rattle off loads who i think are better anyone agree? NO!!! Three World Championships say it all for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hodgy Posted March 10, 2019 Report Share Posted March 10, 2019 2 hours ago, geoff100 said: Had to laugh in this weeks "star" calling himself the greatest british rider, i have only been watching my fav sport for 50 yrs and could rattle off loads who i think are better anyone agree? No. Whatever you think (we all have our favourites), Tai is the most successful British Rider. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dog Posted March 10, 2019 Report Share Posted March 10, 2019 Rattle them off then mate, just out of interest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lucifer sam Posted March 10, 2019 Report Share Posted March 10, 2019 4 hours ago, geoff100 said: Had to laugh in this weeks "star" calling himself the greatest british rider, i have only been watching my fav sport for 50 yrs and could rattle off loads who i think are better anyone agree? Name any other triple British World Champions who you think are better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WalterPlinge Posted March 10, 2019 Report Share Posted March 10, 2019 2 hours ago, The White Knight said: NO!!! Three World Championships say it all for me. Three World Championships so far.... could be more by the time his career is over. Of course he's the most successful British rider ever. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gemini Posted March 11, 2019 Report Share Posted March 11, 2019 Successful yes but greatest British rider ~ no. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teaboy279 Posted March 11, 2019 Report Share Posted March 11, 2019 4 hours ago, Gemini said: Successful yes but greatest British rider ~ no. But records will always so that he is, he is the only 3 time world champion. That's a fact. Any other form of measurement is pure opinion. 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigcatdiary Posted March 11, 2019 Report Share Posted March 11, 2019 14 hours ago, geoff100 said: Had to laugh in this weeks "star" calling himself the greatest british rider, i have only been watching my fav sport for 50 yrs and could rattle off loads who i think are better anyone agree? I have also been watching the sport for 50 years and I think Woffinden is the best, as others have said it would be interesting to know who you think is better? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geoff100 Posted March 11, 2019 Report Share Posted March 11, 2019 1 hour ago, bigcatdiary said: I have also been watching the sport for 50 years and I think Woffinden is the best, as others have said it would be interesting to know who you think is better? Peter collins chris morton , jessup , mike lee, i could go on it has never been easier to become world champion u get 10 go,s a season and u dont need to win a final grand prix race to win the title, how would mr superstar have managed in a good old one night final.anyway dont need to bother with him now having won it 3 times he wont compete so someone else can have a go! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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