Tai Woffinden Best Ever!?

[chunky]

4 hours ago, iainb said:

It only took one race for Jason Doyle to lose the world title in 2016

Except that it didn't.  He lost the title by 16 points.  Had Doyle scored better in previous rounds (most notably in Warsaw and Horsens, where he scored 5 and 7 respectively), he could easily have had things wrapped up by the time he got injured.

Seems a long shot, but look at the 1970 F1 season.  Jochen Rindt was tragically killed at Monza, but he had already opened such a lead that nobody was able to catch him in the remaining races.

When you have ONE slip-up in only five rides, there is no way back, but over a season, there are opportunities.

Steve

[waiheke1]

For the 80s, atvvthe interval, position of world chsmp:

1980/81/83/88/89: 1st

86: 1st equal 

82:2nd

84: 2nd=

85/87: 3rd=

[chunky]

7 minutes ago, waiheke1 said:

Yes. Posted this 20 minutes before you 

But you didn't actually state that it could be won on 8!  Some of these people need things to be spelled out to them...

Like one of my fave scenarios.  It is possible to win EVERY GP, and not finish in the Top 8 at the end of the season!!!

Steve

[waiheke1]

28 minutes ago, chunky said:

Okay, 1956 final...

After eight heats, Briggo and Eric Boothroyd were joint leaders on five points.

Fundin (eventual winner), Moore, Forrest, Craven, and Crutcher were all on four points.

Neither Briggo nor Boothroyd finished on the rostrum.

Steve

Droppimg from the lead after heat 8 was common:

1980 final had Penhall and Thomsen tied for the lead with Lee. Neither made the podium. 

81 Jessup was tied for first, didnt make the rostrum, likewise Carter in 82, Ermolenko 88, Tatum 89. 

[waiheke1]

6 minutes ago, chunky said:

But you didn't actually state that it could be won on 8!  Some of these people need things to be spelled out to them...

Like one of my fave scenarios.  It is possible to win EVERY GP, and not finish in the Top 8 at the end of the season!!!

Steve

Or be world champ without ever making a semi final!

[chunky]

The lowest points total for a rostrum place was 10.  Fundin finished third on 10 in 1962, and Handberg did the same 30 years later.

Three interesting stats about the Handberg case.

1) He finished third on 10, WITHOUT needing a runoff.
2) Both Handberg and runner-up Jonsson were unplaced in one ride.  I haven't checked, but that sounds unique.
3) Expanding on the above point, Havvy was the ONLY rider who DIDN'T record a zero in the meeting!

Steve

[chunky]

4 minutes ago, waiheke1 said:

Or be world champ without ever making a semi final!

Do you think people like us have too much time on our hands??? 

Steve

[fatface]

Just now, chunky said:

The lowest points total for a rostrum place was 10.  Fundin finished third on 10 in 1962, and Handberg did the same 30 years later.

Three interesting stats about the Handberg case.

1) He finished third on 10, WITHOUT needing a runoff.
2) Both Handberg and runner-up Jonsson were unplaced in one ride.  I haven't checked, but that sounds unique.
3) Expanding on the above point, Havvy was the ONLY rider who DIDN'T record a zero in the meeting!

Steve

Went to that one. It was a strangely chaotic affair. The weather was torrential at one point..there were hailstones like golf balls! We came away thinking Per Jonsson was the real class act, but he had just been caught out by a freak storm.

[BWitcher]

9 hours ago, moxey63 said:

OK, Einstein, we've already sussed that.

But I must also add that although I don't sit and watch the speedway on whichever channel it's on, it is usually on in the background, so I am more in tune with someone who doesn't care. I also have the Speedway Star every week so at least I still care somewhat

So, here's a question for all you would-be promoters looking to attract extra fans.

Why do you tell people who don't have the same opinion as you to just go away? Isn't that why the terraces are so sparse and tracks will fold at an alarming rate over the next 10 years.

Telling people who have 40-odd years' watching the sport to go away, their views don't count, we know best, is why, in part, we are where we are...  I'm an idiot, I still have one toe of interest in there. Thousands took your advice, and there's a thread elsewhere asking why speedway is in such a state and its approaching yet another winter of crisis talks.

 

And still you continue with your utter nonsense.

Let's face the facts here.

You attended the sport as a freeloader. The moment you were asked to pay like everyone else you stopped going.  That's the reality, it's been established and confirmed on here multiple times in the past by those in the know.

Now you don't even watch, 'it's on in the background'.. usually whilst you are posting on here.. makes you even stranger of an individual.

Finally, nobody is telling you to go away because you 'have a different opinion'. It is because you are talking utter garbage, making statements that pertinently aren't true, have it PROVEN to you that they aren't true yet you still come out with them.. usually garnering a few likes from similar stubborn/stupid/ignorant (delete as applicable although all three may well be applicable) who also can't accept the fact that they are wrong. Possibly because it means you've spent 30+ years of your life not realising the obvious.

Finally, there is no need to tell you to go away, you've gone away, a LONG time ago, for reasons that have nothing to do with the state of the sport and have stated multiple times you have no intention to return regardless of the state of the sport.

You are a completely irrelevant entity whose mere existence on forums such as this only serves to damage the sport further.

[moxey63]

1 hour ago, BWitcher said:

And still you continue with your utter nonsense.

Let's face the facts here.

You attended the sport as a freeloader. The moment you were asked to pay like everyone else you stopped going.  That's the reality, it's been established and confirmed on here multiple times in the past by those in the know.

Now you don't even watch, 'it's on in the background'.. usually whilst you are posting on here.. makes you even stranger of an individual.

Finally, nobody is telling you to go away because you 'have a different opinion'. It is because you are talking utter garbage, making statements that pertinently aren't true, have it PROVEN to you that they aren't true yet you still come out with them.. usually garnering a few likes from similar stubborn/stupid/ignorant (delete as applicable although all three may well be applicable) who also can't accept the fact that they are wrong. Possibly because it means you've spent 30+ years of your life not realising the obvious.

Finally, there is no need to tell you to go away, you've gone away, a LONG time ago, for reasons that have nothing to do with the state of the sport and have stated multiple times you have no intention to return regardless of the state of the sport.

You are a completely irrelevant entity whose mere existence on forums such as this only serves to damage the sport further.

2

Yup.

At the end of the day, you are defending a sport that has as much chance of survival as the Titanic. But if that makes you feel better. You have a lot of time to waste.

And as for being a freeloader. Who in their right mind would pay for something if they didn't have to? I, sir, am not daft. I saved a bomb. Eighteen years...

What are you like - I am only damaging the sport further by posting on here, eh? What have I said to damage the sport? Yet, in another wild statement, you say  I am a completely irrelevant entity? Are my posts damaging the sport or am I irrelevant?   

 

Edited October 18, 2018 by moxey63

[orion]

10 hours ago, moxey63 said:

OK, Einstein, we've already sussed that.

But I must also add that although I don't sit and watch the speedway on whichever channel it's on, it is usually on in the background, so I am more in tune with someone who doesn't care. I also have the Speedway Star every week so at least I still care somewhat

So, here's a question for all you would-be promoters looking to attract extra fans.

Why do you tell people who don't have the same opinion as you to just go away? Isn't that why the terraces are so sparse and tracks will fold at an alarming rate over the next 10 years.

Telling people who have 40-odd years' watching the sport to go away, their views don't count, we know best, is why, in part, we are where we are...  I'm an idiot, I still have one toe of interest in there. Thousands took your advice, and there's a thread elsewhere asking why speedway is in such a state and its approaching yet another winter of crisis talks.

 

Why the rant ? my point is simple if don't watch speedway like GP'S and Polish speedway etc  it's impossible to have an opinion  on Woffy and  todays Gp's ...now all of a sudden after telling people for years that you  don't watch it somehow it's  now on in the back ground and you still get  a speedway magazine  .

Next your be telling us you go on a speedway forum thou you don't like  the sport anymore 

 

 

[chunky]

50 minutes ago, moxey63 said:

Yup.

At the end of the day, you are defending a sport that has as much chance of survival as the Titanic. But if that makes you feel better. You have a lot of time to waste.

And as for being a freeloader. Who in their right mind would pay for something if they didn't have to? I, sir, am not daft. I saved a bomb. Eighteen years...

What are you like - I am only damaging the sport further by posting on here, eh? What have I said to damage the sport? Yet, in another wild statement, you say  I am a completely irrelevant entity? Are my posts damaging the sport or am I irrelevant?   

So, instead of fighting for the survival of the sport we love - and have loved for years - you are simply resigned to its demise?  You don't think it is worth saving?  Apparently not, because the product is crap, the riders are crap, the fans are idiots?

Yes, it IS people like you who are damaging the sport, with all this bloody negativity!

I too am an "old fart", and yes, I DO miss the old days.  However, I do realise that - whether I like it or not - those days are gone!  To quote Arthur Foggen, "Then's then, and now's now".  It is still a wonderful sport, and it is still (despite a lifetime of involvement in another professional sport) my FAVOURITE sport.  It can still be a fantastic spectacle, and I still marvel at the exploits of great riders like Tai Woffinden.

If you really DON'T like it, and you DON'T think it is worth saving, then YOU are the one who is wasting your time on here...

Steve

[moxey63]

6 minutes ago, chunky said:

So, instead of fighting for the survival of the sport we love - and have loved for years - you are simply resigned to its demise?  You don't think it is worth saving?  Apparently not, because the product is crap, the riders are crap, the fans are idiots?

Yes, it IS people like you who are damaging the sport, with all this bloody negativity!

I too am an "old fart", and yes, I DO miss the old days.  However, I do realise that - whether I like it or not - those days are gone!  To quote Arthur Foggen, "Then's then, and now's now".  It is still a wonderful sport, and it is still (despite a lifetime of involvement in another professional sport) my FAVOURITE sport.  It can still be a fantastic spectacle, and I still marvel at the exploits of great riders like Tai Woffinden.

If you really DON'T like it, and you DON'T think it is worth saving, then YOU are the one who is wasting your time on here...

Steve

I can't stop the demise on my own. Don't put that on my shoulders. It's easy to point the finger at me, but nobody listened to the thousands when they felt the same. That is why we are in this state.

11 minutes ago, orion said:

Why the rant ? my point is simple if don't watch speedway like GP'S and Polish speedway etc  it's impossible to have an opinion  on Woffy and  todays Gp's ...now all of a sudden after telling people for years that you  don't watch it somehow it's  now on in the back ground and you still get  a speedway magazine  .

Next your be telling us you go on a speedway forum thou you don't like  the sport anymore 

 

 

We are all different.

[moxey63]

I am criticised for having an opinion on Tai Woffinden in the "Is he the best ever." thread.  I cannot have an opinion because I have never seen him ride in the GP. But I have the GP on my TV every time it's on. But that's not good enough. My opinion is worthless. It seems it is worthless because my opinion is different than the others who want Tai to be the best. Certain other posters get rude if you have a different opinion to theirs. They gang up and try to sneer at your opinion. But my belief that the last eight years have seen a decrease in talent - we've had a 40-odd-year-old winning the title (we used to laugh when Per Serenius won the ice title at a similar age), we've had a rider who had been a second string much of his career and is now a world champion. It is my opinion, for god's sake. If it wasn't different, then I'd be the same. I'd say we are in a current era that is weaker than the 80s when Nielsen and Gundersen had no one else to challenge them. But that is my belief. What is the problem with that?

[chunky]

26 minutes ago, moxey63 said:

I can't stop the demise on my own. Don't put that on my shoulders. It's easy to point the finger at me, but nobody listened to the thousands when they felt the same. That is why we are in this state.

I'm NOT putting that on your shoulders. I'm NOT pointing the finger at you.  What I am doing is saying that I am tired of all the negativity!  Like everybody else, I like to have my moans on here - it's human nature - but I still love speedway, and believe it is worth saving.  I don't just respond to every post on here with some crazy rambling negativity.

Yes, there have been many mistakes made - particularly as far as British speedway is concerned - but again, I don't get your final sentence.  You are seemingly washing your hands of any personal involvement in the demise of British speedway, yet the demise is largely because of people like you who stopped going because :

1) It was better in the "good 'ol days"
2) You apparently stopped going because you had to pay!

Of course, we all take freebies when we can get them, but when I look back at the money I spent on speedway over the years, I am quite content with what I put into the sport.  Holding season tickets, joining supporter's clubs and fan clubs, travelling to other tracks, spending money on things like photos, badges, scarves, and programme boards, eating and drinking at the tracks, contributing to fund-raisers and collections at away tracks, organizing and participating in organizing fund-raisers myself, sponsoring riders and events (I had agreed to sponsor the Tommy Jansson Memorial one year until it was cancelled at the last minute).

No, I don't want to be singled out for stuff like that, because there were thousands of us who used to do that, but it makes me sick when people gloat about "saving a bomb"!  I admit, because of my involvement with Sky, I used to get free entry into the live meetings when I was back in the country.  However, I don't just look back and think, "I saved a bomb"...

If I were still making trips to the UK during the season, you can guarantee that I would be still taking in what I could.  It may not be like it was (or like you THINK it was), but it is still bloody good...  Plus, thanks to live streaming, I can sit at home and watch the greatest British rider of all-time!!!

Steve

Edited October 18, 2018 by chunky

[moxey63]

14 minutes ago, chunky said:

I'm NOT putting that on your shoulders. I'm NOT pointing the finger at you.  What I am doing is saying that I am tired of all the negativity!  Like everybody else, I like to have my moans on here - it's human nature - but I still love speedway, and believe it is worth saving.  I don't just respond to every post on here with some crazy rambling negativity.

Yes, there have been many mistakes made - particularly as far as British speedway is concerned - but again, I don't get your final sentence.  You are seemingly washing your hands of any personal involvement in the demise of British speedway, yet the demise is largely because of people like you who stopped going because :

1) It was better in the "good 'ol days"
2) You apparently stopped going because you had to pay!

Of course, we all take freebies when we can get them, but when I look back at the money I spent on speedway over the years, I am quite content with what I put into the sport.  Holding season tickets, joining supporter's clubs and fan clubs, travelling to other tracks, spending money on things like photos, badges, scarves, and programme boards, eating and drinking at the tracks, contributing to fund-raisers and collections at away tracks, organizing and participating in organizing fund-raisers myself, sponsoring riders and events (I had agreed to sponsor the Tommy Jansson Memorial one year until it was cancelled at the last minute).

No, I don't want to be singled out for stuff like that, because there were thousands of us who used to do that, but it makes me sick when people gloat about "saving a bomb"!  I admit, because of my involvement with Sky, I used to get free entry into the live meetings when I was back in the country.  However, I don't just look back and think, "I saved a bomb"...

If I were still making trips to the UK during the season, you can guarantee that I would be still taking in what I could.  It may not be like it was (or like you THINK it was), but it is still bloody good...  Plus, thanks to live streaming, I can sit at home and watch the greatest British rider of all-time!!!

Steve

I find it quite insulting that people refer to me not going to speedway because I had to pay. That usually comes from people who can't stand the thought of someone having a different opinion to their love affair with the sport and smear 40 years of my life by saying I only went because it was free. If you want to class a few hours work, using all your own material etc as getting in for free, then there is nothing else to say. I supplied speedway with a service and got a complimentary pass. But I had made up my mind that I didn't like the way speedway was going, a few years before I gave up on it and the free pass. But people still use the freebie dig because it strengthens their argument. I just say I saved a bomb, which I did. I still have an interest in the sport. That's why I'm on here now. But sometimes your frustrations with it just get too much.

[orion]

22 minutes ago, moxey63 said:

I am criticised for having an opinion on Tai Woffinden in the "Is he the best ever." thread.  I cannot have an opinion because I have never seen him ride in the GP. But I have the GP on my TV every time it's on. But that's not good enough. My opinion is worthless. It seems it is worthless because my opinion is different than the others who want Tai to be the best. Certain other posters get rude if you have a different opinion to theirs. They gang up and try to sneer at your opinion. But my belief that the last eight years have seen a decrease in talent - we've had a 40-odd-year-old winning the title (we used to laugh when Per Serenius won the ice title at a similar age), we've had a rider who had been a second string much of his career and is now a world champion. It is my opinion, for god's sake. If it wasn't different, then I'd be the same. I'd say we are in a current era that is weaker than the 80s when Nielsen and Gundersen had no one else to challenge them. But that is my belief. What is the problem with that?

You said before that never had any of the channels and you never watched it  ..now somehow you do ..nothing to do with opinion your  just making things up as you go along 

[moxey63]

2 minutes ago, orion said:

You said before that never had any of the channels and you never watched it  ..now somehow you do ..nothing to do with opinion your  just making things up as you go along 

Really? People are really behaving like children now.

 

When did I say I never had any channels? Please find that post.

Edited October 18, 2018 by moxey63

[BWitcher]

31 minutes ago, moxey63 said:

I am criticised for having an opinion on Tai Woffinden in the "Is he the best ever." thread.  I cannot have an opinion because I have never seen him ride in the GP. But I have the GP on my TV every time it's on. But that's not good enough. My opinion is worthless. It seems it is worthless because my opinion is different than the others who want Tai to be the best. Certain other posters get rude if you have a different opinion to theirs. They gang up and try to sneer at your opinion. But my belief that the last eight years have seen a decrease in talent - we've had a 40-odd-year-old winning the title (we used to laugh when Per Serenius won the ice title at a similar age), we've had a rider who had been a second string much of his career and is now a world champion. It is my opinion, for god's sake. If it wasn't different, then I'd be the same. I'd say we are in a current era that is weaker than the 80s when Nielsen and Gundersen had no one else to challenge them. But that is my belief. What is the problem with that?

And yet more cock and bull nonsense. You've stated multiple times you don't WATCH the GP's. You now claim you have them on in the 'background'. Strange thing to do but hey ho. Either way, you're not watching so your opinion is worthless.

Yet again you come out with the claptrap reasoning you are being ridiculed because you don't think Woffinden is the best.. there's plenty who don't think he is yet, they've posted on this thread, they haven't been ridiculed because they gave genuine reasons.. You are being ridiculed because:

1: You don't watch
2: You have no intention of watching
3: You hide behind a false notion the racing was so much better so you won't go anymore, yet you live locally to perhaps the best race track there has ever been.
4: You come out with ridiculous nonsensical comments that there were more top riders in the world because there were more 10pt riders back in the day.
5: You come out with the childlike incorrect statement "It's my opinion" when you are shown to be factually wrong. 

Now you're adding to the nonsense with a '40 odd year old winning the title'. Are you really so dense as to not understand the advancements in diet and physical conditioning that allows riders such as Hancock to continue riding and be successful? The other key factor with Hancock that has added to his longevity is his avoidance of any serious injuries throughout his career. 

Speaking of 40 year olds I guess you laughed when Ivan Mauger was World Champion at 39 and 10 months old?

Speaking of whom.. that brings us onto Jason Doyle... how dare a rider who was a second string for much of his career become a World Champion. Doyle first of all suffered multiple serious injuries throughout his career which slowed his progress and secondly he realised it was time to stop going through the motions and dedicate himself and take it seriously. The results have been there for all to see.

Not too dissimilar to the aforementioned Ivan Mauger who also took years to reach the level of World Champion and indeed for a number of them wasn't a top dog either.

So by Moxey's logic, the 70's was a really poor era, we had a journeyman rider become a World Champion and a nigh on 40 year old winning it too! 

 

Edited October 18, 2018 by BWitcher

[moxey63]

2 minutes ago, BWitcher said:

And yet more cock and bull nonsense. You've stated multiple times you don't WATCH the GP's. You now claim you have them on in the 'background'. Strange thing to do but hey ho. Either way, you're not watching so your opinion is worthless.

Yet again you come out with the claptrap reasoning you are being ridiculed because you don't think Woffinden is the best.. there's plenty who don't think he is yet, they've posted on this thread, they haven't been ridiculed because they gave genuine reasons.. You are being ridiculed because:

1: You don't watch
2: You have no intention of watching
3: You hide behind a false notion the racing was so much better so you won't go anymore, yet you live locally to perhaps the best race track there has ever been.
4: You come out with ridiculous nonsensical comments that there were more top riders in the world because there were more 10pt riders back in the day.
5: You come out with the childlike incorrect statement "It's my opinion" when you are shown to be factually wrong. 

Now you're adding to the nonsense with a '40 odd year old winning the title'. Are you really so dense as to not understand the advancements in diet and physical conditioning that allows riders such as Hancock to continue riding and be successful? The other key factor with Hancock that has added to his longevity is his avoidance of any serious injuries throughout his career. 

Speaking of 40 year olds I guess you laughed when Ivan Mauger was World Champion at 39 and 10 months old?

Speaking of whom.. that brings us onto Jason Doyle... how dare a rider who was a second string for much of his career become a World Champion. Doyle first of all suffered multiple serious injuries throughout his career which slowed his progress and secondly he realised it was time to stop going through the motions and dedicate himself and take it seriously. The results have been there for all to see.

Not too dissimilar to the aforementioned Ivan Mauger who also took years to reach the level of World Champion and indeed for a number of them wasn't a top dog either.

 

My opinion.

Move on now.

Back to the topic.

Racing was not better in the past - my belief in the product was.

It is just wild west stuff now.

Growing bored by this childish behaviour by grown men trying to prove everything I say as fake.

Really is childish.

Edited October 18, 2018 by moxey63