Grachan Posted October 18, 2018 Report Share Posted October 18, 2018 Just now, waiheke1 said: 84&85 S Moran I believe was favourite Really? Above Nielsen? I certainly never saw it that way. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IainB Posted October 18, 2018 Author Report Share Posted October 18, 2018 Doesn't matter which way you look at it or if you agree with them all or not but I think it does go to show that the real contenders actually capable of winning a world title in a given year you could probably count on one hand whatever the system Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve roberts Posted October 18, 2018 Report Share Posted October 18, 2018 5 minutes ago, waiheke1 said: 84&85 S Moran I believe was favourite 5 minutes ago, Grachan said: Really? Above Nielsen? I certainly never saw it that way. Agree...Nielsen was regarded as the favourite from what I remember based on his British League record and other factors. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IainB Posted October 18, 2018 Author Report Share Posted October 18, 2018 6 minutes ago, steve roberts said: Agree...Nielsen was regarded as the favourite from what I remember based on his British League record and other factors. Agreed... But to say there were no other serious contenders is wrong. Wasn't Tommy Knudsen kind of joint favourite in 1986 until Hans knocked him off in his desperation to win his first world title? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MARK246 Posted October 18, 2018 Report Share Posted October 18, 2018 So who where the main rivals to Woffinden this year ? The only real challenge early in the season was Lindgren, and a late push from Zmarzlik. You knew the other monster riders won't challenge so that's 3 out of the 14 gone. Who was there in the GPs to beat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waiheke1 Posted October 18, 2018 Report Share Posted October 18, 2018 20 minutes ago, steve roberts said: Agree...Nielsen was regarded as the favourite from what I remember based on his British League record and other factors. S Moran won the inter continental final both years, in 85 also the overseas final at Odsal beating Carter twice. I'm not 100% certain on bookmakers odds, but certainly the "experts" in the Star tipped Moran. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fatface Posted October 18, 2018 Report Share Posted October 18, 2018 24 minutes ago, waiheke1 said: 84&85 S Moran was the real threat. Sanders was fancied by some in 84. Ermolenko would have been probably 12tg favourite of the 16 finalists in 85! 86 neither Tatum or Nielsen were expected to trouble the Danes 87/88 Maybe Sam and Jan O. At a push Tatum in 88 Not convinced by any of those for 89. And over a full gp season? Moran in 84/85, Carter 85, Jan o 88. That's it. My recollections over Sanders in 84 and Moran in 85 were that it was more about the final venue itself, than them being considered the out and out best riders in the world. Sanders had been the outstanding individual at the 83 World Pairs in Gothenburg and had real pedigree at that particular track - 3rd in the 1980 final. Moran had been the top rider at the World Pairs semi and the Overseas Final at Bradford in 85, whilst neither of the Danes had yet competed there - remember this was before the Dukes moved over from Halifax in 86. Of course all of the above was groundless come the finals, when the Danes rendered any perceived track advantage as irrelevant. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waiheke1 Posted October 18, 2018 Report Share Posted October 18, 2018 13 minutes ago, iainb said: Agreed... But to say there were no other serious contenders is wrong. Wasn't Tommy Knudsen kind of joint favourite in 1986 until Hans knocked him off in his desperation to win his first world title? Nope. He may have been 3rd favourite pre final along with Ermolenko, but no-one predicted anything other than Eric or Hans. And in the final Knudsen came 3rd in his first ride, so at no point was he a joint favourite - it was Eric clear favourite after 4 heats, Hans ckear favourite from heat 8 onwards. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waiheke1 Posted October 18, 2018 Report Share Posted October 18, 2018 6 minutes ago, MARK246 said: So who where the main rivals to Woffinden this year ? The only real challenge early in the season was Lindgren, and a late push from Zmarzlik. You knew the other monster riders won't challenge so that's 3 out of the 14 gone. Who was there in the GPs to beat Well at the start of the year Doyle as reigning champ, Zmarzlik, Lindgren who started the season on fire, Emil. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IainB Posted October 18, 2018 Author Report Share Posted October 18, 2018 (edited) 9 minutes ago, MARK246 said: So who where the main rivals to Woffinden this year ? The only real challenge early in the season was Lindgren, and a late push from Zmarzlik. You knew the other monster riders won't challenge so that's 3 out of the 14 gone. Who was there in the GPs to beat At the beginning of the year based on early performances and performances from the previous year and known quality of riders I'd have said (in no particular order) Zmarzlik, Dudek, Janowski, Doyle, Hancock & Lindgren, of course they all fell away for one reason or another over the course of the season but I wouldn't have been surprised if any of these had claimed top spot Edited October 18, 2018 by iainb 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MARK246 Posted October 18, 2018 Report Share Posted October 18, 2018 Just now, waiheke1 said: Well at the start of the year Doyle as reigning champ, Zmarzlik, Lindgren who started the season on fire, Emil. So less than at a one off final. Plus the benefit of ten meetings to do it, .....yawn ... no wonder it was boring to watch this year Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waiheke1 Posted October 18, 2018 Report Share Posted October 18, 2018 4 minutes ago, falcace said: My recollections over Sanders in 84 and Moran in 85 were that it was more about the final venue itself, than them being considered the out and out best riders in the world. Sanders had been the outstanding individual at the 83 World Pairs in Gothenburg and had real pedigree at that particular track - 3rd in the 1980 final. Moran had been the top rider at the World Pairs semi and the Overseas Final at Bradford in 85, whilst neither of the Danes had yet competed there - remember this was before the Dukes moved over from Halifax in 86. Of course all of the above was groundless come the finals, when the Danes rendered any perceived track advantage as irrelevant. Agree. Most would have considered Hans the best rider in the world both years. Eric scraped into the final in 84 from memory?whereas but for a puncture or ef s Moran would likely have done the overseas/ic final double both years. From memory when I produced statistical ranking lusts for 84/85 Shaun finished 2nd ahead of Eric if you ignored the world final. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MARK246 Posted October 18, 2018 Report Share Posted October 18, 2018 1 minute ago, iainb said: At the beginning of the year based on early performances and last year and known quality of riders of have said (in no particular order) Zmarzlik, Dudek, Janowski, Doyle, Hancock & Lindgren, of course they all fell away for one reason or another over the course of the season but I wouldn't have been surprised if any of these had claimed top spot You can eliminate Dudek and Hancock as they are team monster riders Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IainB Posted October 18, 2018 Author Report Share Posted October 18, 2018 (edited) 6 minutes ago, waiheke1 said: Nope. He may have been 3rd favourite pre final along with Ermolenko, but no-one predicted anything other than Eric or Hans. And in the final Knudsen came 3rd in his first ride, so at no point was he a joint favourite - it was Eric clear favourite after 4 heats, Hans ckear favourite from heat 8 onwards. Tommy was a serious contender though Edited October 18, 2018 by iainb Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waiheke1 Posted October 18, 2018 Report Share Posted October 18, 2018 1 minute ago, MARK246 said: So less than at a one off final. Plus the benefit of ten meetings to do it, .....yawn ... no wonder it was boring to watch this year Sorry. I thought we had concluded that for most world finals in the 80s there were only 2 Or 3 riders with a chance of winning, and less if it were a gp. I gave u 5 for this year. Where i come from, 5 Is more than 3. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IainB Posted October 18, 2018 Author Report Share Posted October 18, 2018 (edited) Perhaps the GP's should be cut down to 8 riders for the series as the others are just also rans... And then in a few years 6... And then down to 4... Edited October 18, 2018 by iainb Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grachan Posted October 18, 2018 Report Share Posted October 18, 2018 23 minutes ago, iainb said: Agreed... But to say there were no other serious contenders is wrong. Wasn't Tommy Knudsen kind of joint favourite in 1986 until Hans knocked him off in his desperation to win his first world title? I never really felt it with Knudsen the way I did with Nielsen and Gundersen. Good as he was, I will always remember him mainly for falling off when doing a w 5 minutes ago, iainb said: At the beginning of the year based on early performances and performances from the previous year and known quality of riders I'd have said (in no particular order) Zmarzlik, Dudek, Janowski, Doyle, Hancock & Lindgren, of course they all fell away for one reason or another over the course of the season but I wouldn't have been surprised if any of these had claimed top spot This year I would agree there were several contenders. Next year I reckon there are 3 main contenders. Zmarzlik - can he make the final step-up that his ability indicates he can? Doyle - how he will now respond to no longer being Champion and how much does he want it now that he has already won it once? Woffinden - obviously. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MARK246 Posted October 18, 2018 Report Share Posted October 18, 2018 17 minutes ago, waiheke1 said: Sorry. I thought we had concluded that for most world finals in the 80s there were only 2 Or 3 riders with a chance of winning, and less if it were a gp. I gave u 5 for this year. Where i come from, 5 Is more than 3. You put 3 and Emil as an after thought, after two GPs it was obvious Doyle wasn't a threat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IainB Posted October 18, 2018 Author Report Share Posted October 18, 2018 1 minute ago, Grachan said: Next year I reckon there are 3 main contenders. Zmarzlik - can he make the final step-up that his ability indicates he can? Doyle - how he will now respond to no longer being Champion and how much does he want it now that he has already won it once? Woffinden - obviously. Don't think you can ever count Hancock out, Dudek is consistent if nothing else, Janowski if he can eliminate his couple of duffers and Lindgren surely if (as with the others) injury free. Maybe Emil too if he can turn his career around and recapture his speed of a few years ago Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IainB Posted October 18, 2018 Author Report Share Posted October 18, 2018 (edited) 3 minutes ago, MARK246 said: You put 3 and Emil as an after thought, after two GPs it was obvious Doyle wasn't a threat Obviously the longer you go into the competition the less contenders there are. And although Doyle wasn't a threat for the title at the start of the year he was certainly a threat of spoiling others chances at the end of the year Edited October 18, 2018 by iainb Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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