Tai Woffinden Best Ever!?

[IainB]

4 minutes ago, Gemini said:

Wow! That comment is really uncalled for. 

His original post was implying that today's riders have it easy and back in the day the dangers in the sport were greater, not true, Darcy Ward the most talented rider I've ever seen now in a wheelchair in the era of air fences... I found his original comments most deplorable

Edited October 8, 2018 by iainb

[tyler42]

4 minutes ago, iainb said:

Comments like "nice little air fence" do not help your cause

Sorry what cause. It was a point of view. If you think I'm being offending to anyone thats your point of view.

The difference is, i have not in my post attacked you personally, So don't do it to me. 

 

Thank you

[Gemini]

2 minutes ago, iainb said:

His original post was implying that today's riders have it easy and back in the day the dangers in the sport were greater, not true, Darcy Ward the most talented rider I've ever seen now in a wheelchair in the era of air fences... I found his original comments most deplorable

Still a way over the top reaction and an attack on the poster.

[IainB]

Top infer modern day riders are less skillful because there's a nice little air fence is ridiculous

[tyler42]

1 hour ago, iainb said:

I keep hearing that todays riders have so much more skill? It sure takes a lot of skill to hold the bike flat out on a slick track for 4 laps!. With a nice little air fence added for extra protection! Just look what happen at a recent GP when there is a bit of dirt on the track. They had there little riders meetings and demanded to have all the dirt scraped off. If they are so skilful, surely they can ride in any conditions? There is a thing called a throttle and it can go both ways! 

Where in my post do i say the sport was dangerous back in the day. Please post all of my post. Not the little bit you like. so that you can attack me. 

[BWitcher]

17 minutes ago, iainb said:

We'll never know about Havvy in a GP in 92, so we'll just have to go with the fact he won the championship.

 

Agreed 

[IainB]

9 minutes ago, tyler42 said:

Where in my post do i say the sport was dangerous back in the day. Please post all of my post. Not the little bit you like. so that you can attack me. 

I didn't like your post I thought it was insulting to modern day riders, who are riding faster than ever before

Edited October 8, 2018 by iainb

[Gemini]

1 minute ago, iainb said:

I didn't like your post I thought it was insulting to modern day riders

 Difference of opinion doesn't give you the right to call him a 'sick man'.  He didn't even mention Darcy Ward. I don't  like or agree with a lot of posts but you are interpreting his words differently to how they were meant and to respond like you have done is way over the top. 

[IainB]

7 minutes ago, Gemini said:

 Difference of opinion doesn't give you the right to call him a 'sick man'.  He didn't even mention Darcy Ward. I don't  like or agree with a lot of posts but you are interpreting his words differently to how they were meant and to respond like you have done is way over the top. 

We've obviously read his original post in different ways... Perhaps he'll clarify what he meant by he keeps getting told riders are so skillful riding full throttle on slick tracks with a nice little air fence and wanting things changed when they're obviously to dangerous (ask Craig Cook) and I can apologise and we can move on

Edited October 8, 2018 by iainb

[moxey63]

Nobody will kid me into thinking today's riders are any better than previous decades. I am not going to criticise anybody by name-calling, but we have had a rider winning three titles when the main opposition has been from a 45-year-old, who it took 20 years to take his second crown (when the top names were disappearing) and a rider who has risen up the ranks to become champion purely because genuine top riders have retired. 

I regard my top riders for what they do in domestic racing as well. But even there the total lack of genuine star class has helped push names up the scoring ranks who would have previously been decent second strings.

Only my view.

 

Edited October 8, 2018 by moxey63

[BWitcher]

15 minutes ago, moxey63 said:

Nobody will kid me into thinking today's riders are any better than previous decades. I am not going to criticise anybody by name-calling, but we have had a rider winning three titles when the main opposition has been from a 45-year-old, who it took 20 years to take his second crown (when the top names were disappearing) and a rider who has risen up the ranks to become champion purely because genuine top riders have retired. 

I regard my top riders for what they do in domestic racing as well. But even there the total lack of genuine star class has helped push names up the scoring ranks who would have previously been decent second strings.

Only my view.

 

A view totally lacking in foundation and fact.

I'm assuming you are talking about Doyle with regards to a rider who has 'only risen up the ranks' due to other riders retiring? May as well say the same about Mauger then. That just shows what a foolish statement that is.

Doyle 'rose up through the ranks' because he looked at what other riders were doing and tried to improve on it. Basically stopped messing around and took the whole thing to a far more serious professional level. Funnily enough, just like Mauger did.

As for the 45 year old, might want to work on your Maths first of all. Secondly, he too, after many years of 'going through the motions' realised he had to either step down from GP's completely or refocus and take the thing a whole lot more seriously. He chose the second route.

You don't need to be 'kidded'. It's a reality, riders today are far more professional and are way above the standards of yesteryear. That's not even a debate. That isn't to say riders of yesteryear wouldn't be able to compete if they rode in this era because many of them would adapt and become more professional themselves, certainly the likes of Mauger would. There are some who would not however and drop down the ranks... just as there are some now who have all the talent but lack the overall package.

Edited October 8, 2018 by BWitcher

[moxey63]

40 minutes ago, BWitcher said:

A view totally lacking in foundation and fact.

I'm assuming you are talking about Doyle with regards to a rider who has 'only risen up the ranks' due to other riders retiring? May as well say the same about Mauger then. That just shows what a foolish statement that is.

Doyle 'rose up through the ranks' because he looked at what other riders were doing and tried to improve on it. Basically stopped messing around and took the whole thing to a far more serious professional level. Funnily enough, just like Mauger did.

As for the 45 year old, might want to work on your Maths first of all. Secondly, he too, after many years of 'going through the motions' realised he had to either step down from GP's completely or refocus and take the thing a whole lot more seriously. He chose the second route.

You don't need to be 'kidded'. It's a reality, riders today are far more professional and are way above the standards of yesteryear. That's not even a debate. That isn't to say riders of yesteryear wouldn't be able to compete if they rode in this era because many of them would adapt and become more professional themselves, certainly the likes of Mauger would. There are some who would not however and drop down the ranks... just as there are some now who have all the talent but lack the overall package.

If only Jason Crump had been more professional and stopped messing about, he could have nosed out Rickardsson to win all those titles which he finished second. And Leigh Adams, who it took years to even win that first GP round because the opposition was extremely strong.

No need to go off on one, BWitcher, it is my opinion. No science in it, just an opinion.

Edited October 8, 2018 by moxey63

[IainB]

36 minutes ago, moxey63 said:

 but we have had a rider winning three titles when the main opposition has been from a 45-year-old, who it took 20 years to take his second crown

You're right, he's rubbish... Don't forget it took him 27 years to win his first crown

[moxey63]

11 minutes ago, iainb said:

You're right, he's rubbish... Don't forget it took him 27 years to win his first crown

Not saying he's rubbish. Just questioning the consistency and class of those around him.

 

We may talk about professionalism being better than it was and all that. But who's gaining from this professionalism?  Not the fans, who are nodding off in their droves. Give me the chance to watch the likes of the 2018 band of GP stars and the ones from 10 years ago, and I just wish there was a system restore button on this speedway thing. Has professionalism taken away the character of today's riders and made them robotic? 

Edited October 8, 2018 by moxey63

[customhouseregular]

We obviously will never know, but if Tai had to race through WCQR's, British Finals, Nordic/British/ American Finals, European and Inter- continental Finals etc. etc., would have made the World Final every year, let alone win 3 titles?.

[BWitcher]

40 minutes ago, moxey63 said:

If only Jason Crump had been more professional and stopped messing about, he could have nosed out Rickardsson to win all those titles which he finished second. And Leigh Adams, who it took years to even win that first GP round because the opposition was extremely strong.

No need to go off on one, BWitcher, it is my opinion. No science in it, just an opinion.

I've not questioned your opinion.

I've stated the reasoning you gave behind it is nonsense. I'll leave it up to you to decide what that makes your opinion look like.

[BWitcher]

1 minute ago, customhouseregular said:

We obviously will never know, but if Tai had to race through WCQR's, British Finals, Nordic/British/ American Finals, European and Inter- continental Finals etc. etc., would have made the World Final every year, let alone win 3 titles?.

Well, given as he rarely ever misses out on a GP semi, and the previous rounds you mention would be a lot easier than a GP.. not much chance of that.

[BWitcher]

28 minutes ago, moxey63 said:

 

 

We may talk about professionalism being better than it was and all that. But who's gaining from this professionalism?  Not the fans, who are nodding off in their droves. Give me the chance to watch the likes of the 2018 band of GP stars and the ones from 10 years ago, and I just wish there was a system restore button on this speedway thing. Has professionalism taken away the character of today's riders and made them robotic? 

Once again, when you are shown to be wrong, you introduce something completely irrelevant to the debate.

As for 10 years ago, you were spouting the same nonsense then!

Do you even watch the GP's? I seriously have to question that when you have riders like Zmarzlik racing the way they do now. 

Edited October 8, 2018 by BWitcher

[Grachan]

5 minutes ago, customhouseregular said:

We obviously will never know, but if Tai had to race through WCQR's, British Finals, Nordic/British/ American Finals, European and Inter- continental Finals etc. etc., would have made the World Final every year, let alone win 3 titles?.

I think you only have to see what he did on Saturday when the real pressure was on to get the answer to  that.

[moxey63]

1 minute ago, BWitcher said:

Once again, when you are shown to be wrong, you introduce something completely irrelevant to the debate.

As for 10 years ago, you were spouting the same nonsense then!

I haven't been shown to be wrong. I have been shown to have a different opinion than yours. That's all. I still have my opinion. In my eyes, I am right. Your eyes, I am wrong. There is no definitive correct answer. 

And yes, 10 years ago we probably still disagreed.