Aces51 Posted October 23, 2018 Report Share Posted October 23, 2018 24 minutes ago, iainb said: Wouldn't of said he dominated though... No commonwealth final, no overseas final So he didn't dominate because he didn't win events that weren't held. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waiheke1 Posted October 23, 2018 Report Share Posted October 23, 2018 14 minutes ago, g13webb said: That was the start of the technology that put more emphasis on the bikes. Back in 1973 when Kings Lynn were riding against Newport, Street and Crumpy came to Saddlebow Road with two new inventions 'the Street 4 valvers'. They were ridiculous quick that gave them almighty advantage. It wasn't so much that Crump scored a maximum but the distance he won by. Neil Street, although getting on in years was still a competent competitor who raced to 11 points.. Sitting in the pits with Terry Betts during the interval, he suggested the bikes should be banned, because if not, every rider would have to get one. and that's going to cost the fans more money... By the time Lee started back in '75, 4 valvers were in full swing. The 2 valves died an instant death... Jawa, Weslakes and GM were all the rage, but they were never tuned to the levels they are today. Back in the mid 70's most riders rode standard bikes it was only the privilege few that had works machinery…. If only the privileged few had works machinery - how does this correlate with claims tgat Tai only wins because he had fast bikes. Which all riders have. When in the 70s it was only your Maugers, Olsen and Collins... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iris123 Posted October 23, 2018 Report Share Posted October 23, 2018 3 minutes ago, MARK246 said: Somerton Park wasn't the best track to overtake on either with its four corners. That together with the advantage the 4 valves had from the start made the pair nearly unbeatable I only went there the once.A bank holiday early the season and they were amazing,especially considering Street was a sort of Reg Luckhurst/Bert Harkins standard really 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waiheke1 Posted October 23, 2018 Report Share Posted October 23, 2018 6 minutes ago, Aces51 said: So he didn't dominate because he didn't win events that weren't held. Genuine question, why wasn't he picked for the pairs for England that year? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aces51 Posted October 23, 2018 Report Share Posted October 23, 2018 1 hour ago, sommelier said: Whilst I agree with you regarding PC & Morton at the NSS, NEVER forget also just how good Chris Pusey was, very underestimated rider. Remember my parents taking me to a grass track in the very early 70s to watch PC, Pusey just blew him away!! Pusey was a very good rider. I think that he could have achieved far more than he did but he lacked the professionalism and dedication. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IainB Posted October 23, 2018 Author Report Share Posted October 23, 2018 (edited) 14 minutes ago, Aces51 said: So he didn't dominate because he didn't win events that weren't held. No, not only did he not dominate the qualifiers he had a far easier passage to the final than riders of other era's. Still a great great rider, don't get me wrong, you don't win a world championship without being a great rider... Just nowhere near as good as Tai, like I said in an earlier post I compare PC more to the likes of Mark Loram Edited October 23, 2018 by iainb Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OveFundinFan Posted October 23, 2018 Report Share Posted October 23, 2018 Time to sit back have a cup of tea. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waiheke1 Posted October 23, 2018 Report Share Posted October 23, 2018 PC is imo the greatest rider to won a single world individual title. Loram would possibly be in the bottom 5. No comparison imo, I think PC is closer to Tai than Loram to PC. Loram never topped the top flight averages as an example. I dont believe he shone for england/gb in the way Woffy and PC did. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aces51 Posted October 23, 2018 Report Share Posted October 23, 2018 8 minutes ago, waiheke1 said: Genuine question, why wasn't he picked for the pairs for England that year? I honestly can't remember if we ever knew the reason. I doubt we were ever told. I think that John Berry was the team manager and if so that could explain why John Louis was preferred. Berry and Collins never got on but I can't recall when that started. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waiheke1 Posted October 23, 2018 Report Share Posted October 23, 2018 4 minutes ago, Aces51 said: I honestly can't remember if we ever knew the reason. I doubt we were ever told. I think that John Berry was the team manager and if so that could explain why John Louis was preferred. Berry and Collins never got on but I can't recall when that started. You are right that Berry was team manager, thst would explain it. Th ere were issues agsin 10 years later... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BWitcher Posted October 23, 2018 Report Share Posted October 23, 2018 Can't agree with Peter Collins ranking alongside Mark Loram, he is head and shoulders above him in my opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IainB Posted October 23, 2018 Author Report Share Posted October 23, 2018 (edited) 10 minutes ago, BWitcher said: Can't agree with Peter Collins ranking alongside Mark Loram, he is head and shoulders above him in my opinion. I think Loram gets an undeservedly hard time as everybody throws the not winning a GP in his title winning year stat into any argument you out forward for him... Don't forget he did win his world title bang in the middle of the TRick era Edited October 23, 2018 by iainb Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waiheke1 Posted October 23, 2018 Report Share Posted October 23, 2018 6 minutes ago, iainb said: I think Loram gets an undeservedly hard time as everybody throws the not winning a GP in his title winning year stat into any argument you out forward for him... Don't forget he did win his world title bang in the middle of the TRick era To me that's not the main reason. It's that he didn't get close any other season. That even that season he wasn't dominant in other events. To win a GP series requires quality over a number of meetings, but even that season was he the best rider in the world? Was he in the top 3 riders in the world any other season. Where would he rank in riders of the decade? PC was best rider in the world for 2 seasons (imo) and the 3rd best rider of the decade (behind Mauger and Olsen). 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chunky Posted October 23, 2018 Report Share Posted October 23, 2018 42 minutes ago, waiheke1 said: PC is imo the greatest rider to won a single world individual title. Loram would possibly be in the bottom 5. No comparison imo, I think PC is closer to Tai than Loram to PC. Loram never topped the top flight averages as an example. I dont believe he shone for england/gb in the way Woffy and PC did. Can't argue with any of that! Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moxey63 Posted October 23, 2018 Report Share Posted October 23, 2018 Please, without the fear of being shouted at again, can someone explain if Tai is a better rider because he is more professional than they were in the seventies? If this is the case, surely if PC was riding today he'd be just as professional. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BWitcher Posted October 23, 2018 Report Share Posted October 23, 2018 1 minute ago, moxey63 said: Please, without the fear of being shouted at again, can someone explain if Tai is a better rider because he is more professional than they were in the seventies? If this is the case, surely if PC was riding today he'd be just as professional. I don't think anyone has said that. What has been said is there are more professional riders now than in the 70's. PC would, if he was riding now, be one of the most professional as he was in the 70's. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve roberts Posted October 23, 2018 Report Share Posted October 23, 2018 2 hours ago, Aces51 said: Pusey was a very good rider. I think that he could have achieved far more than he did but he lacked the professionalism and dedication. I talk to Ian Cartwright (one time Halifax 'Duke') whenever I'm visiting 'Mouseman' in Kilburm and he told me that Chris running a pub was the last thing that he should have been doing when he finished with speedway. A brilliant character however and often forgotten about when one talks of great 'Aces' (much to brother, Geoff's, great annoyance) 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chunky Posted October 23, 2018 Report Share Posted October 23, 2018 1 hour ago, moxey63 said: Please, without the fear of being shouted at again, can someone explain if Tai is a better rider because he is more professional than they were in the seventies? If this is the case, surely if PC was riding today he'd be just as professional. When it comes to equipment, track conditions, riding styles, professionalism etc, there are no advantages or disadvantages to be had when attempting to compare eras. As has been stated many times, it is the same for everyone at any particular point in time. PC's professionalism can only be compared to the professionalism of his rivals. Even though the riders today are far more professional, Tai's own professionalism can only be compared to that of his rivals. It is all relative. The thing to remember is that speedway - like all sports - is constantly evolving, and the top guys evolve with the sport. That is why they are the top guys. Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chunky Posted October 23, 2018 Report Share Posted October 23, 2018 4 minutes ago, steve roberts said: I talk to Ian Cartwright (one time Halifax 'Duke') whenever I'm visiting 'Mouseman' in Kilburm and he told me that Chris running a pub was the last thing that he should have been doing when he finished with speedway. A brilliant character however and often forgotten about when one talks of great 'Aces' (much to brother, Geoff's, great annoyance) I wonder how much his lifestyle and dedication (or lack thereof) contributed to not only a lack of real top-level success, but also to such a short career at that level. Chris can certainly be classed as an under-achiever when you consider his talent, and he should definitely have been around for longer than he was. Steve 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waiheke1 Posted October 23, 2018 Report Share Posted October 23, 2018 1 hour ago, BWitcher said: I don't think anyone has said that. What has been said is there are more professional riders now than in the 70's. PC would, if he was riding now, be one of the most professional as he was in the 70's. Though that said, maybe he didn't work as hard as Ole and Ivan, and was more reliant on natural ability. Perhaps why Ole's gating improved to world class standard, and PCs remained average (Though he could produce gates when it mattered, 77 final as an example). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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