iris123 Posted October 19, 2018 Report Share Posted October 19, 2018 2 minutes ago, waiheke1 said: Don't forget Bruce Penhall allegedly paying off -hmm, Jri Stancl, to allow Bruce to beat him and claim world title number 2 Guess it is a case of being safe rather than sorry.If you don’t play the game,even a ‘poor’ opponent can still take you out Ronnie Moore in his online interview with Briggo,does make comment on a sort of mafia at the top of the sport when he first came over,who had control of things and it was difficult to break into this closed shop Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aces51 Posted October 19, 2018 Report Share Posted October 19, 2018 (edited) 59 minutes ago, iris123 said: Seems to remember a story about the Parker brothers in one of those post-war finals.Norman had 3 straight wins and in his 4 th heat was up against his brother,who he knew desperately wanted the title.So Norman let his brother win the heat,even though he could have won 4 on the trot.In his last heat he finished last,but he was of the opinion that if it wasn’t for letting his brother through he could have won that title.Probably again by paying off the others.Think that is correct A good story but unfortunately, the facts don't support what you say. It was the 1949 final. Norman and Jack had both won their first 2, not 3, rides. They met in heat 13 and Jack won with Norman second. However, Norman dropped another point to Louis Lawson in heat 15 and finished last in heat 19, behind Price, Longley and Kitchen. Price won the title with a 15 point maximum, Jack Parker was second with 14 and Lawson third with 13. Norman wouldn't have won it even if he had beaten Jack. He would have scored 11 and still finished 4th. In any event, Price wouldn't have accepted money to lose to Norman because a second place in heat 19 would have put him in a run off for the title with Jack and nor would Lawson because he still had a chance of the title when he and Norman met in heat 15 and he could also have lost his eventual podium place to Norman if he had let him beat him. The whole story lacks credibility. Edited October 19, 2018 by Aces51 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grachan Posted October 19, 2018 Report Share Posted October 19, 2018 19 minutes ago, waiheke1 said: Don't forget Bruce Penhall allegedly paying off -hmm, Jri Stancl, to allow Bruce to beat him and claim world title number 2 I don't think he paid him off. As I recall the story, it said that Stancl came up to him before the race and told him not to worry as he wouldn't try to finish in front of him. I don't think there was anything about money changing hands. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iris123 Posted October 19, 2018 Report Share Posted October 19, 2018 13 minutes ago, Aces51 said: A good story but unfortunately, the facts don't support what you say. It was the 1949 final. Norman and Jack had both won their first 2, not 3, rides. They met in heat 13 and Jack won with Norman second. However, Norman dropped another point to Louis Lawson in heat 15 and finished last in heat 19, behind Price, Longley and Kitchen. Price won the title with a 15 point maximum, Jack Parker was second with 14 and Lawson third with 13. Norman wouldn't have won it even if he had beaten Jack. He would have scored 11 and still finished 4th. In any event, Price wouldn't have accepted money to lose to Norman because a second place in heat 19 would have put him in a run off for the title with Jack and nor would Lawson because he still had a chance of the title when he and Norman met in heat 15 and he could also have lost his eventual podium place to Norman if he had let him beat him. The whole story lacks credibility. Fair enough.Thought there was a story somewhere there,but did put a disclaimer at the bottom as I wasn’t sure But there are enough out there.Olle Nygren has stated something about races being bought in world finals,though I haven’t read the story.Was it in classic speedway or one of those mags? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aces51 Posted October 19, 2018 Report Share Posted October 19, 2018 There have always been stories of points being bought. There are dishonest people in every wallk of life, fortunately a small minority and it would be naive to think that speedway is any different or that the situation today is any different than it was in years gone by. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iris123 Posted October 19, 2018 Report Share Posted October 19, 2018 6 minutes ago, Aces51 said: There have always been stories of points being bought. There are dishonest people in every wallk of life, fortunately a small minority and it would be naive to think that speedway is any different or that the situation today is any different than it was in years gone by. Exactly,but I think at least with the world championship the chances of dodgy dealings in a 20 heat meeting are greater than in a GP season.I think the need for such a deal is very rare in the GPs as it doesn’t often go down to the wire Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve roberts Posted October 19, 2018 Report Share Posted October 19, 2018 (edited) 42 minutes ago, Grachan said: I don't think he paid him off. As I recall the story, it said that Stancl came up to him before the race and told him not to worry as he wouldn't try to finish in front of him. I don't think there was anything about money changing hands. Yes the Sunday People who desperately tried to make a serial from it's initial 'head-line' hitting editorial! Edited October 19, 2018 by steve roberts Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moxey63 Posted October 19, 2018 Report Share Posted October 19, 2018 (edited) 1 hour ago, chunky said: Of course speedway has never been taken seriously. Talk of match-fixing in football and cricket means that they have never been taken seriously either... Steve (sorry, Sigh...) I take football seriously, despite all the guests they're using and the Golden Double goal rule and players swanning off all over Europe to play for blinking foreign teams. And what about that top football side who purposely conceded goals to make them weaker so they could sign better players and come good right at the death to win the top prize? Roy of the Rovers stuff that is. Can't beat it. Much more exciting than speedway. Edited October 19, 2018 by moxey63 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aces51 Posted October 19, 2018 Report Share Posted October 19, 2018 12 minutes ago, iris123 said: Exactly,but I think at least with the world championship the chances of dodgy dealings in a 20 heat meeting are greater than in a GP season.I think the need for such a deal is very rare in the GPs as it doesn’t often go down to the wire You may be right but I can see opportunities in the GP's. A rider in the running for a top 8 spot needing a point of two to get into the semi finals and facing riders already out of the running or similarly, in the semi finals and wanting to get into the final. There will always be those prepared to help a friend or team mate, if it doesn't harm their chances and a very small number, prepared to help for money. I don't think it was or, is now, a major problem. I suspect that the number of times it happens are few and far between. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waiheke1 Posted October 19, 2018 Report Share Posted October 19, 2018 21 minutes ago, iris123 said: Exactly,but I think at least with the world championship the chances of dodgy dealings in a 20 heat meeting are greater than in a GP season.I think the need for such a deal is very rare in the GPs as it doesn’t often go down to the wire I believe one of the reasons Ole was an advocate of the GP series is he felt he had been disadvantaged in the world championship by being, for most of his career, the only Dane in the field. He saw Gps as reducing the opportunities for collusion. I'm sure there were other reasons as well why Ole wanted a series... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BWitcher Posted October 19, 2018 Report Share Posted October 19, 2018 34 minutes ago, moxey63 said: I take football seriously, despite all the guests they're using and the Golden Double goal rule and players swanning off all over Europe to play for blinking foreign teams. And what about that top football side who purposely conceded goals to make them weaker so they could sign better players and come good right at the death to win the top prize? Roy of the Rovers stuff that is. Can't beat it. Much more exciting than speedway. Again all things which went on previously, but you were happy as you were freeloading. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BWitcher Posted October 19, 2018 Report Share Posted October 19, 2018 34 minutes ago, Aces51 said: You may be right but I can see opportunities in the GP's. A rider in the running for a top 8 spot needing a point of two to get into the semi finals and facing riders already out of the running or similarly, in the semi finals and wanting to get into the final. There will always be those prepared to help a friend or team mate, if it doesn't harm their chances and a very small number, prepared to help for money. I don't think it was or, is now, a major problem. I suspect that the number of times it happens are few and far between. Except they weren't... and now they are. Talk about head in sand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moxey63 Posted October 19, 2018 Report Share Posted October 19, 2018 34 minutes ago, BWitcher said: but you were happy as you were freeloading. I certainly was. Happy days. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chunky Posted October 19, 2018 Report Share Posted October 19, 2018 1 hour ago, moxey63 said: I take football seriously, despite all the guests they're using and the Golden Double goal rule and players swanning off all over Europe to play for blinking foreign teams. And what about that top football side who purposely conceded goals to make them weaker so they could sign better players and come good right at the death to win the top prize? Roy of the Rovers stuff that is. Can't beat it. Much more exciting than speedway. How do you do it? You talk about a specific subject - race-fixing - being a major factor in why speedway is not taken seriously. I reply DIRECTLY to your post, and what do you do? You immediately run off in a totally different direction, like a spoilt schoolgirl, hoping that nobody will notice! And you wonder why people don't take YOU seriously? Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chunky Posted October 19, 2018 Report Share Posted October 19, 2018 30 minutes ago, moxey63 said: I certainly was. Happy days. Happy days of guests, race-fixing, and second-halfers better than a three-time World Champ... Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moxey63 Posted October 19, 2018 Report Share Posted October 19, 2018 (edited) 36 minutes ago, chunky said: Happy days of guests, race-fixing, and second-halfers better than a three-time World Champ... Steve No, I meant my freeloading. Edited October 19, 2018 by moxey63 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hodgy Posted October 19, 2018 Report Share Posted October 19, 2018 Tai Woffinden is the most successful British Individual World Champion. Fact. Impossible to compare different eras. Move on. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chunky Posted October 19, 2018 Report Share Posted October 19, 2018 12 minutes ago, Hodgy said: Tai Woffinden is the most successful British Individual World Champion. Fact. Impossible to compare different eras. Move on. Apparently it's not. It has been stated on here that Tai Woffinden is not as good as Ken Eyre or Ian Hindle. That is a fact... Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hodgy Posted October 19, 2018 Report Share Posted October 19, 2018 1 minute ago, chunky said: Apparently it's not. It has been stated on here that Tai Woffinden is not as good as Ken Eyre or Ian Hindle. That is a fact... Steve Not as good or not as successful? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
orion Posted October 19, 2018 Report Share Posted October 19, 2018 If you want a great night in next year get Bt Sports put the speedway on but don't watch it just have it on in the background Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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