Tai Woffinden Best Ever!?

[Grachan]

Just now, waiheke1 said:

And of course a final where over half the field had nothing to race for at the half way mark.

Or qualifiers where when you reached the last 4 heats riders had nothing to race for...

Off the top of my head I can think of 81 overseas final, 82 overseas final, 82 ic final, 84 ic final, 91(?) overseas final (Sam letting Hancock pass). Plus the Collins brothers team riding in the 82 overseas final. 

And tgese are not the incidents with money changing hands, just "favoyrs" for compatriots 

Whereas in the gp series I can only think of the hancock/holder case, where Hancock got rightly excludes, neutralizing the impact of his action. 

Did you include the one when Ole Olsen waved all the Danes through on the last lap because he could no longer qualify? Was that the 84 Inter Continental?

[moxey63]

4 minutes ago, Grachan said:

Did you include the one when Ole Olsen waved all the Danes through on the last lap because he could no longer qualify? Was that the 84 Inter Continental?

1982 Intercontinental. Didn't compare with the Crump and Pedersen one though when they were obviously trying to manufacture the result of a World Cup race so as one country could use the Joker and the other country wanted to finish in a position so they couldn't. It was like Strictly Come Dancing in 60 seconds.  Just as embarrassing though.

Edited October 19, 2018 by moxey63

[MARK246]

14 minutes ago, waiheke1 said:

You know, it is possible for Woffy to win on 9 without winning a heat...

Swap Woffy and Vaculik in ht3. Madsen and ward in ht6. Pedersen and puk in ht8

I never realised the system was that flawed, that was an education 

[FigRoll]

Woffy woffy woffy

[Grachan]

2 minutes ago, moxey63 said:

1982 Intercontinental. Didn't compare with the Crump and Pedersen one though when they were obviously trying to manufacture the result of a World Cup race so as one country could use the Joker and the other country wanted to finish in a position so they couldn't. It was like Strictly Come Dancing in 60 seconds.  Just as embarrassing though.

The amazing thing about that Joker incident was that they didn't scrap it straight afterwards. I never liked the double points thing, but in the World Cup final it was particularly annoying.

[BWitcher]

34 minutes ago, moxey63 said:

Here we go again. It was within days of Rye House closing, his team, and what respect did this show to their fans? He had the suit made, I assume, because he may have just been relieved in getting another gig and didn't have to quit, as he was fearing because his other team - is it Glasgow - wasn't enough to pay the bills. And that is what I mean about the sport being built on sand. Yet we ask why supporters don't roll up in droves to what we once termed a team sport. 

As well as his beaming smile celebrating on the cover of this week's SS with his title-winning team mates of Poole, Chris Harris could make it a double-bubble next week after having helped Somerset win the Cup last night. Explain that one to a friend you're trying to try speedway.

 

At least with the GPs they aren't pretending they're not doing it for self-intent.

So a rider must sit on his backside when he is out of a job, is that your point?

As for him guesting in the Cup Final, that's happened multiple times even in the 'good old days' so hardly a relevant point between then and now.

One thing that is apparent, fans were a hell of a lot more gullible in the past. Many still are, hence believing because a league had a lot of 10pt riders they were all World Title Contenders.

Oh and by the way, I don't disagree it was more fun in the past, more people there, better atmosphere, EVERYTHING seems better.

Of course, you stopped attending a long time before any of the major problems of recent times began so they're just being used a cover for you not getting in free anymore... Boy, it's a long time to hold a grudge!

Edited October 19, 2018 by BWitcher

[Hodgy]

1 hour ago, moxey63 said:

Here we go again. It was within days of Rye House closing, his team, and what respect did this show to their fans? He had the suit made, I assume, because he may have just been relieved in getting another gig and didn't have to quit, as he was fearing because his other team - is it Glasgow - wasn't enough to pay the bills. And that is what I mean about the sport being built on sand. Yet we ask why supporters don't roll up in droves to what we once termed a team sport. 

As well as his beaming smile celebrating on the cover of this week's SS with his title-winning team mates of Poole, Chris Harris could make it a double-bubble next week after having helped Somerset win the Cup last night. Explain that one to a friend you're trying to try speedway.

 

At least with the GPs they aren't pretending they're not doing it for self-intent.

Rye House still owe Harris for 9 meetings, a five figure sum. Loyalty - works both ways. It was great to see him smiling.

[waiheke1]

1 hour ago, Grachan said:

Did you include the one when Ole Olsen waved all the Danes through on the last lap because he could no longer qualify? Was that the 84 Inter Continental?

That was the 82ic final. And actually he waved for Gundersen to pull over to let Bo Petersen through

[waiheke1]

1 hour ago, MARK246 said:

I never realised the system was that flawed, that was an education 

Tbh i dont see it as a flaw. Its about getting the most points, regardless of how you do it  

[MARK246]

10 minutes ago, waiheke1 said:

Tbh i dont see it as a flaw. Its about getting the most points, regardless of how you do it  

All the years I was a mechanic, we worked on a minimum 10pts with a win. Only ever needed 9 to win, oops!!!

[chunky]

12 minutes ago, waiheke1 said:

Tbh i dont see it as a flaw. Its about getting the most points, regardless of how you do it  

Any time you don't have a straight "knockout" system, and rely on points accumulation, strange things can happen. Like you, I don't consider them flaws, but anomalies. As we have said though, just because things CAN happen, it doesn't mean they will!

Steve

[BWitcher]

2 minutes ago, chunky said:

Any time you don't have a straight "knockout" system, and rely on points accumulation, strange things can happen. Like you, I don't consider them flaws, but anomalies. As we have said though, just because things CAN happen, it doesn't mean they will!

Steve

Exactly.

You can win the World Cup in football without ever scoring a goal. I guess that means it's a laughing stock, try explaining it to folks in pubs around the country. No wonder nobody watches the World Cup.

[chunky]

1 minute ago, BWitcher said:

Exactly.

You can win the World Cup in football without ever scoring a goal. I guess that means it's a laughing stock, try explaining it to folks in pubs around the country. No wonder nobody watches the World Cup.

Or a team can be relegated when it has won more matches than teams who stayed up...

Or in cricket, you can earn a draw by scoring fewer runs than your opponent...

In darts, you can have a much higher average even though you lost the leg or match...

Steve

[steve roberts]

1 hour ago, waiheke1 said:

And of course a final where over half the field had nothing to race for at the half way mark.

Or qualifiers where when you reached the last 4 heats riders had nothing to race for...

Off the top of my head I can think of 81 overseas final, 82 overseas final, 82 ic final, 84 ic final, 91(?) overseas final (Sam letting Hancock pass). Plus the Collins brothers team riding in the 82 overseas final.

And tgese are not the incidents with money changing hands, just "favoyrs" for compatriots 

Whereas in the gp series I can only think of the hancock/holder case, where Hancock got rightly excludes, neutralizing the impact of his action. 

There was 'collusion' during the 1996 GP Final round when Hans was 'ganged up upon' allowing Billy Hamill to become champion. Can't recall the exact scenario without checking the facts but Sam Ermolenko was involved as he explained in great detail in his book "Breaking The Limits"

 

[Fromafar]

1 hour ago, Grachan said:

Well, he does seem to be wearing one in the photos, which is odd as the rest of the team are wearing race jackets.

But, surely, even if he got a race suit made that is showing real loyalty to his team - not a lack of it.

Harris said in SS that his wife (or partner) got it made as a surprise when Poole signed him.Cant hide money.

[MARK246]

3 minutes ago, steve roberts said:

There was 'collusion' during the 1996 GP Final round when Hans was 'ganged up upon' allowing Billy Hamill to become champion. Can't recall the exact scenario without checking the facts but Sam Ermolenko was involved as he explained in great detail in his book "Breaking The Limits"

 

I always thought that after the team Exide, with their back to back GP champions, that the FIM stopped multiple rider sponsors. Was it   Rickardsson and Ulameck that were stopped  ? 

[moxey63]

1 hour ago, BWitcher said:

So a rider must sit on his backside when he is out of a job, is that your point?

As for him guesting in the Cup Final, that's happened multiple times even in the 'good old days' so hardly a relevant point between then and now.

One thing that is apparent, fans were a hell of a lot more gullible in the past. Many still are, hence believing because a league had a lot of 10pt riders they were all World Title Contenders.

Oh and by the way, I don't disagree it was more fun in the past, more people there, better atmosphere, EVERYTHING seems better.

Of course, you stopped attending a long time before any of the major problems of recent times began so they're just being used a cover for you not getting in free anymore... Boy, it's a long time to hold a grudge!

No. But to actually have a pair of custom-made jim-jams of his new side is my gripe. That's my point. That is no loyalty to his old fans. In fact, it's a smack in the face.

So, guesting in the Cup Final is fine. It happened in the past, you remind me. But, BWitcher, I thought we were more professional than the past. It is nice to see you compare today's speedway with the good old days when it suits.

 

Fans were certainly gullible in the past. But it is the sense of gullibility from those still defending the sport that I can't fathom. Stand up, BWitcher.That is you, sir!

I hold no grudges, BWitcher. I still answer your boring posts, don't I?

You would try to prove me wrong if I told you today's date was 19th October. You are one of those annoying people.

 

Edited October 19, 2018 by moxey63

[dontforgetthefueltapsbruv]

3 minutes ago, moxey63 said:

 

You would try to prove me wrong if I told you today's date was 19th October. You are one of those annoying people.

 

Anyone now posting from Aussie would say you are wrong..... 

[steve roberts]

3 minutes ago, MARK246 said:

I always thought that after the team Exide, with their back to back GP champions, that the FIM stopped multiple rider sponsors. Was it   Rickardsson and Ulameck that were stopped  ? 

Without quoting all the exact details (I'm working on my model railway after having just walked the dog!) although I can lift a quote from the said book

"I (Ermolenko) let Loram pass me around the outside and I stayed in second, with Billy in third behind me...Nielsen could only make the B Final , while Billy and I, Greg Hancock and Loram, we were all in the A Final..."

He goes on to quote "...What I didn't realise was that Loram and Chris Louis, who were both in a similar situation to me, had their one little arrangement going. I got caught up in something that I didn't know about"

It's an interesting chapter in his book and well worth a read...far too complicated to explain the whole scenaio but enlightening nevertheless as Sam explains that it went back were he felt that the Yanks had been screwed up during a World Pairs semi-final back in 1991. 

[BWitcher]

44 minutes ago, moxey63 said:

No. But to actually have a pair of custom-made jim-jams of his new side is my gripe. That's my point. That is no loyalty to his old fans. In fact, it's a smack in the face.

So, guesting in the Cup Final is fine. It happened in the past, you remind me. But, BWitcher, I thought we were more professional than the past. It is nice to see you compare today's speedway with the good old days when it suits.

 

Fans were certainly gullible in the past. But it is the sense of gullibility from those still defending the sport that I can't fathom. Stand up, BWitcher.That is you, sir!

I hold no grudges, BWitcher. I still answer your boring posts, don't I?

You would try to prove me wrong if I told you today's date was 19th October. You are one of those annoying people.

 

If only you knew what you were actually posting.

I am about as vocally critical of the sport today in the UK as anyone, so it's another to add to the ever growing list of things you've got wrong.

Being right isn't annoying. You keep talking nonsense, I keep correcting you. 

Are you still labouring under the belief that there were more 'world class' stars in the 70's because of the profileration of 10pt averages for example? 

As for Harris.. you're annoyed because a rider for a team you don't support, in a sport you don't watch had a pair of leathers made representing the team he rode for? You are serious about that? Your problems are more far reaching than I thought!

What did you expect, him to turn up wearing a Rye House suit?

Edited October 19, 2018 by BWitcher