Grachan Posted October 17, 2018 Report Share Posted October 17, 2018 Just now, waiheke1 said: Was the sport stronger in depth in the 80s? There were only 3 countries with any depth - England USA and Denmark. Sweden NZ and Australia had a couple of international/world class riders each at various points in the decade. Finland Germany and at a push Poland could argue the same. Poland's depth today is arguably better than England's was. Australia, Sweden, Denmark, England and Russia all have a nucleus of quality riders. Then the likes of USA Latvia Czech Slovakia and Slovenia all have one quality rider each. It's just a feeling, although I may be being swayed by the standard of riders in the British League being higher, plus most of the strength in depth now being in Eastern Europe. Of course, then again, maybe it was so hard for people to beat Hans Nielsen because the general standard of rider was lower. We can never really know either way. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve roberts Posted October 17, 2018 Report Share Posted October 17, 2018 1 hour ago, BluPanther said: Chris Louis said in an interview published today... “Are the bikes too fast? Not necessarily, but the characteristics of the bikes are all wrong. They are so unpredictable. Unless you are riding them flat out they can be problematic and as soon as you back off you’re in whole new territory.” Kelly Moran was quoted as saying same about lay down bikes years ago when he gave one a trial...and there was no one more skillfull on a bike than Kelly! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sommelier Posted October 17, 2018 Report Share Posted October 17, 2018 5 hours ago, BWitcher said: Gollob simply cannot come into the equation, nowhere close to being best ever. If he truly was 'the best ever' or 'the most talented' then he was a complete bottle job.. which rules him out of any best ever conversation. Gollob can in my eyes!!!! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moxey63 Posted October 17, 2018 Report Share Posted October 17, 2018 8 minutes ago, sommelier said: Gollob can in my eyes!!!! Gollob is up there. I was just relieved at the time when he won his title. A rider you'd pay to see. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iris123 Posted October 17, 2018 Report Share Posted October 17, 2018 Thought the bike problem really came to a peak when the new silencers were brought in a few years ago?Then there was even talk of a strike or boycott I think.And it was affecting almost everyone,even Gollob and the other Poles.Has the problem been solved or have riders just got used to the difficulty and accepted it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sommelier Posted October 17, 2018 Report Share Posted October 17, 2018 38 minutes ago, moxey63 said: Gollob is up there. I was just relieved at the time when he won his title. A rider you'd pay to see. In all the years I have been watching speedway, for me personally & been very fortunate to watch Tomasz in his prime all over Europe & particularly in Poland, NEVER seen a rider so graceful on a bike. Thomasz was by far the best rider I have seen. And so missed 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve roberts Posted October 17, 2018 Report Share Posted October 17, 2018 23 minutes ago, sommelier said: In all the years I have been watching speedway, for me personally & been very fortunate to watch Tomasz in his prime all over Europe & particularly in Poland, NEVER seen a rider so graceful on a bike. Thomasz was by far the best rider I have seen. And so missed I saw Tomasz ride on only a number of occasions whilst with Ipswich but I have to say he used to impress me when I used to watch him competing in the GP's! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sommelier Posted October 17, 2018 Report Share Posted October 17, 2018 3 minutes ago, steve roberts said: I saw Tomasz ride on only a number of occasions whilst with Ipswich but I have to say he used to impress me when I used to watch him competing in the GP's! Better than a Blue pill round Bydgoszcz! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BWitcher Posted October 17, 2018 Report Share Posted October 17, 2018 3 hours ago, sommelier said: Gollob can in my eyes!!!! As would Sudden Sam in mine... but realistically... I would say at their very best they're both a match for anyone... but to be best ever it's about being at your very best for a much longer period of time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BWitcher Posted October 17, 2018 Report Share Posted October 17, 2018 (edited) 2 hours ago, sommelier said: In all the years I have been watching speedway, for me personally & been very fortunate to watch Tomasz in his prime all over Europe & particularly in Poland, NEVER seen a rider so graceful on a bike. Thomasz was by far the best rider I have seen. And so missed When conditions suited. He may have been the most graceful, he may have been the most entertainnig.. He clearly wasn't the best, history has already proven that. It's not a situation where we're trying to compare riders from different eras.. Gollob wasn't the best in his own era. Edited October 17, 2018 by BWitcher 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
burton1 Posted October 17, 2018 Report Share Posted October 17, 2018 14 hours ago, waiheke1 said: Fair to say Woffy is knocking on the door of top 10 of all time though (imo). Of the three times world champs id have him behind Crump and probably Olsen, but ahead of Gundersen and Nicki P. Ahead of all double world champs with possible exceptions of Young and Moore. And maybe ahead of Hancock. Woffinden a better rider than gundersen,I read that two hours ago and I've just come around after hitting the floor in shock. 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moxey63 Posted October 17, 2018 Report Share Posted October 17, 2018 40 minutes ago, burton1 said: Woffinden a better rider than gundersen,I read that two hours ago and I've just come around after hitting the floor in shock. Didn't bang your head, did you? That's when your judgement might become impaired. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BWitcher Posted October 17, 2018 Report Share Posted October 17, 2018 (edited) 1 hour ago, burton1 said: Woffinden a better rider than gundersen,I read that two hours ago and I've just come around after hitting the floor in shock. Why? You've not got off to a good start as you've got support from several folk who have shown themselves to be rather limited in terms of their speedway intelligence in this thread, let's hope you can do better. Incidentally, I'm not saying he is per se.. just interested if you can come up with some genuine reasons to back why he isn't better and not the drivel put forward by certain others on this thread. Edited October 17, 2018 by BWitcher Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
burton1 Posted October 17, 2018 Report Share Posted October 17, 2018 12 minutes ago, BWitcher said: Why? You've not got off to a good start as you've got support from several folk who have shown themselves to be rather limited in terms of their speedway intelligence in this thread, let's hope you can do better. Incidentally, I'm not saying he is per se.. just interested if you can come up with some genuine reasons to back why he isn't better and not the drivel put forward by certain others on this thread. Come on stop taking the mick,gundersen is an all time great .along with Nielsen they are the greatest riders I've ever seen by a country mile. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BluPanther Posted October 17, 2018 Report Share Posted October 17, 2018 2 minutes ago, burton1 said: Come on stop taking the mick,gundersen is an all time great .along with Nielsen they are the greatest riders I've ever seen by a country mile. In your opinion... I think Olsen was better than both of them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
burton1 Posted October 17, 2018 Report Share Posted October 17, 2018 15 minutes ago, BluPanther said: In your opinion... I think Olsen was better than both of them. Maybe so but when I started ole was nearly finished as was Ivan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve roberts Posted October 17, 2018 Report Share Posted October 17, 2018 32 minutes ago, burton1 said: Come on stop taking the mick,gundersen is an all time great .along with Nielsen they are the greatest riders I've ever seen by a country mile. I saw much of Hans being an Oxford fan of many years and was privileged to see him ride all over the UK as well as abroad. I first saw him during his first year in Britain and it was obvious then that there was something special about him. I place him among the greats and his team leadership skill was second to none and to watch him team ride was a joy to behold. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BWitcher Posted October 17, 2018 Report Share Posted October 17, 2018 (edited) 40 minutes ago, burton1 said: Come on stop taking the mick,gundersen is an all time great .along with Nielsen they are the greatest riders I've ever seen by a country mile. Nobody has said he isn't an all time great. I have asked for the reasons why Gundersen ranks so much above Woffinden that you would 'fall over' at the prospect of someone saying Woffinden was better. Now you've taken it further and as I assume you have seen Rickardsson they are better than him by 'a country mile' which puts us back into fantasy land. Edited October 17, 2018 by BWitcher Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
burton1 Posted October 17, 2018 Report Share Posted October 17, 2018 21 minutes ago, BWitcher said: Nobody has said he isn't an all time great. I have asked for the reasons why Gundersen ranks so much above Woffinden that you would 'fall over' at the prospect of someone saying Woffinden was better. Now you've taken it further and as I assume you have seen Rickardsson they are better than him by 'a country mile' which puts us back into fantasy land. You surely couldn't of seen gundersen ride if your asking me this question. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BWitcher Posted October 17, 2018 Report Share Posted October 17, 2018 (edited) 13 minutes ago, burton1 said: You surely couldn't of seen gundersen ride if your asking me this question. I've seen him ride countless times and I have't once said he wasn't a brilliant rider. However, you've now posted three times but are still to come up with a single reason why Gundersen is so far ahead of Woffinden... and seemingly now Rickardsson too. Edited October 17, 2018 by BWitcher Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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