berwick bandits 2019

[Najjer]

On 1/14/2019 at 4:27 PM, mac101 said:

That’s the attitude that closes clubs down your called a supporter to support the club through good and bad times how many worky fans are now thinking wish I had supported my team now they don’t have a one 

Not enough I would imagine, hence why the club has withdrawn.

Speedway has this nasty habit of trying to limit the amount of people and fans it loses, instead of trying to attract new fans. Keep bumping the prices up forcing numbers to decrease further and further until eventually the business is completely unsustainable is not a good business plan. Spin King Junior has hit the nail on the head about the scare tactics.

[Sings4Speedway]

3 minutes ago, Najjer said:

Not enough I would imagine, hence why the club has withdrawn.

Speedway has this nasty habit of trying to limit the amount of people and fans it loses, instead of trying to attract new fans. Keep bumping the prices up forcing numbers to decrease further and further until eventually the business is completely unsustainable is not a good business plan. Spin King Junior has hit the nail on the head about the scare tactics.

Big dangers for many clubs (even the currently sustainable ones) is that every club thinks on an insular level, considering their own interests and to heck with the other clubs in the country. Without other clubs surviving there is no value to your own business. If this was standard industry drumming out of business to get a large share makes sense but it isn't, if this was football (and sorry hate cross sport comparisons) if one club fell by the wayside there are literally dozens queuing to take its place but in speedway we have the unique situation whereby a group of riders (with personal agendas) sign for clubs (with personal agendas) and are governed by you guessed it an organisation with personal agendas. Until everyone starts pulling in one direction the only way isn't down just apart.

[balderdash&piffle]

8 minutes ago, Najjer said:

Not enough I would imagine, hence why the club has withdrawn.

Speedway has this nasty habit of trying to limit the amount of people and fans it loses, instead of trying to attract new fans. Keep bumping the prices up forcing numbers to decrease further and further until eventually the business is completely unsustainable is not a good business plan. Spin King Junior has hit the nail on the head about the scare tactics.

It does appear to me, the more a club mis-manages it's affairs, and the BSPA negate their responsibility  by not sorting out the many problems in speedway.  Of course the two are the same, as the promoter is one part of the other.  The more they ask of a declining fan base financially, to the degree where it reaches terminal decline.

[screm]

8 hours ago, TotallyHonestJohn said:

Honestly

IMHO Dick has spelled it out quite succinctly and he is only stating what everyone is aware of, Workington went through this a few years back and the supporters club morphed into the Friends of Workington Speedway and then in to the Workington Speedway Supporters Trust and those bodies injected 20 thousand pounds into Workington Speedway over two seasons becoming the clubs biggest individual sponsor paying for things like medical cover ambulances and other sundry items that go into running a Speedway team and it still didn't save the club.

As much as Dick can be a "dick" and isn't everyone's cup of tea he has hit the nail right on the head here and the new Supporters Club needs to support the club; its always nice to run subsidised coaches and give the riders lump sums but the priority has to be keeping the club afloat first and foremost otherwise you can raise as much money as you like but if there is no club to support what do you do then. You still go to the GP but pay for it yourself anyway! Watch TV Speedway and go to the odd meeting up and down the road rather than have a local club to support. Very short sighted in my view

All revenue streams need to be coming back to the club to keep the thing viable and you don't need to hand over the cash because lets face it what the issue is here; is that certain folk can think that when they are handing over cash that the promoters just put it straight into their pockets and subsidise their "Playboy Lifestyles" which is not the case. (Courtney's Playboys lol, Sorry Scott)

All clubs are operating on a shoe string and the difference to making a small profit or a small loss can be the lifeline that keeps the promotion operating rather than folding another club due to large debts and unsustainable losses. If the Supporters Club worry about where the cash is going commit to paying for something all season, Medical Cover doesn't come cheap pay this direct, the Referee needs to be paid for, meeting fuel and tyres possibly, security or stadium rent, whatever it is; it helps and takes pressure off the promotion. Also it needs to be stated transparency is the key and if you tell people where the funds are being spent and how they are benefiting the club most (not all unfortunately) come on board and understand why this course of action is being followed. Keep an accurate ledger and follow good governance.

Keep the faith Bandit Fans and get behind your promotion to ensure you have a Speedway team in the town to support because in this day and age it will be very difficult to resurrect a club once it has gone

Good luck with the new Supporters Club

Regards
THJ

The supporters club have supported the club in very real terms over the years, they have given substantial donations for the purchase of a new fence, the purchase of a second ambulance, loan fee for riders and many many more. In fact without the supporters club and its donation I suspect Berwick Speedway would've gone by now.  

The thing I find most distasteful about Mr Barrie`s article is the way we are categorised, either fan or supporter, to me they are one and the same. Anyone spending their money to attend meetings, and in many cases making sacrifices to do so deserve better. It is true there were differences between the club and the supporters club last season but as has already been mentioned bridges were being built. This topic was debated on here and looked to have been put to bed, at least partially, now that can have of worms has been opened again, I will only make the point I made at the time, the club would do well not to pick a fight with its most loyal and those who help the club either directly or in-directly as there is only one winner there. 

[Stuntdouble]

 

So dick  decides to get a little personal about some supporters. Yes they are both fans and supporters. They buy season tickets or pay at the gate . Buy a programme and purchase beveridges and the likes at the club bars. Go to away meetings too support , yes again that word support their team . They have giving donations too the club and to the riders too help with equipment. Dick now tells us the riders are well paid . If that’s the case dick last season they must have been very very well paid if they have taken the wage cuts Jamie said at the meeting. The supporters of this club want nothing more than too see a team race in a Saturday and I’m sure they are all grateful to Jamie and his team for allowing them to continue for another season. What they don’t need is a mouthpiece spouting off what he thinks some people want to hear and too slag off supporters on an official website is a bit embarrassing to say the least . Put it on your own blog dick. 

[Tigerforever]

Problem is many supporters clubs do and often quite rightly decide where there funds go as they generated them , now I believe if possible, supporters clubs and promoters/owners must work together , what we have seeen with Workington sadly is that it’s no longer  clubs go to the wall but when.

Remember if your using the name of your club to have a supporters club then I feel they should be involved with you.

no club no supporters club and vice versa,  I believe promotions and fans are needed to work together in the hope no more clubs go bust, not something I’m 100% sure certain will be the case sadly.

[penchev]

A supporters club for the club is what’s needed , if there is no club then no speedway it’s that simple .

the riders will find other clubs and get paid just the same , maybe it’s a question for the riders whether they would prefer money to go them or the club? 

I mean if Harry Kane needed new football boots he would not expect supporters to but them for him would he ? (Different sport I know) 

This is why supporters or fans choose to sponsor a rider so they can provide to offset costs for simple things like tyres and oil 

Speedway has changed dramatically in the last few years , rising costs and dwindling crowds , which in turn makes it so tough to promote the sport , Jamie Courtney should be applauded for keeping the club running and yes we will have speedway next season.

support it or lose it forever , it’s time to step out of the dark ages and move forward together as a club.

Who’s the best ? ...................BANDITS 

[emilali]

So basically the product being offered for this season is yet further watered down than it has been the last few years, yet the prices have been raised?  Alongside this, its entirely the duty of the supporters club to hand over to the club every penny they make? And the justification is simply that they should just be grateful that the speedway is being kept going?

Sorry but this is the 21st century and speedway is vastly overpriced for the product people get to see and the amount of guest riders they see for riders riding elsewhere at any given time and any amount of other excuses that are made when it suits throughout a season. If a supporters group wish to put on trips for their members then thats entirely their prerogative there shouldnt be articles written by that prat regarding the matter.

I think its about time speedway broadly moved itself away from the self praise it craves just for ‘keeping the speedway going’. If you put on a great product and get the entertainment spot on, the crowd would take care of itself. If you dont, I dont see why clubs can turn around and be surprised/offended when people dont go anymore.

[Catch Me If You Can]

11 minutes ago, emilali said:

So basically the product being offered for this season is yet further watered down than it has been the last few years, yet the prices have been raised?  Alongside this, its entirely the duty of the supporters club to hand over to the club every penny they make? And the justification is simply that they should just be grateful that the speedway is being kept going?

Sorry but this is the 21st century and speedway is vastly overpriced for the product people get to see and the amount of guest riders they see for riders riding elsewhere at any given time and any amount of other excuses that are made when it suits throughout a season. If a supporters group wish to put on trips for their members then thats entirely their prerogative there shouldnt be articles written by that prat regarding the matter.

I think its about time speedway broadly moved itself away from the self praise it craves just for ‘keeping the speedway going’. If you put on a great product and get the entertainment spot on, the crowd would take care of itself. If you dont, I dont see why clubs can turn around and be surprised/offended when people dont go anymore.

Sadly you hit nail on head in many ways   Admission costs across Championship seem to all be around the £17 mark? Take it without Seasons Man/Wife /2 kids would be £36 plus  a programme and food, maybe £50 all in? Unless it takes off again like Rugby League did several years ago halycon day crowds gone!

[Sings4Speedway]

44 minutes ago, Catch Me If You Can said:

Sadly you hit nail on head in many ways   Admission costs across Championship seem to all be around the £17 mark? Take it without Seasons Man/Wife /2 kids would be £36 plus  a programme and food, maybe £50 all in? Unless it takes off again like Rugby League did several years ago halycon day crowds gone!

So true. Although with food could be closer to £60. How many fans are lucky enough to have partners / kids who also really want to go to Speedway and who wouldn't choose a day/evening/dinner out for the same money and with a considerable higher level of luxury. 

[TotallyHonestJohn]

23 hours ago, balderdash&piffle said:

Surely,

A supporters  club run by supporters, is a supporters club, of which the supporters decide on what any funds are spent on.

A supporters club run by the club, is a funding stream run by the club for it's own benefit, and should not be called a supporters club, as it is without the control of the supporters.

The way to support a club is to pay through the turnstiles.  The clubs responsibility is to provide adequate entertainment to achieve that.

There are many valid points throughout this thread  off many people and I could have replied to any number of which; however as the one above is quiet succinct I will use this for my response

1. You certainly can not disagree with the statement "A supporters club run by supporters, is a supporters club (SC), of which the supporters decide on what any funds are spent on". However it is where and how the said SC raises these funds is the contentious part I would suggest. If the SC pays for a bus and runs raffles on the bus and self generates the cash amongst its own members there can not be an issue, it is when the SC are using the crowd in general in the stadium and the clubs facilities to raise these funds the promotions get upset, after all if the SC started selling hot dogs (widgets? raffle tickets, anything really?) they would pay the club (promotion) to do so for allowing them to obtain cash from the crowd at that venue and operating a franchise in effect

2, Again "A supporters club run by the club, is a funding stream run by the club for it's own benefit, and should not be called a supporters club, as it is without the control of the supporters" is correct to a certain extent however the SC or the funding stream should change its name as it is more of a Trust or the like; but it can still be run by the supporters or a SC without control of the promotion it just means that the revenues earned come back to supporting the promotion in running the team; however the basic statement is correct but again the frustration I would suggest from the clubs point of view is that much effort goes into running a SC for the benefit of the members but if the Speedway Team doesn't exist whats the point of a SC

3. This statement is the potentially the most valid "The way to support a club is to pay through the turnstiles.  The clubs responsibility is to provide adequate entertainment to achieve that". however everyone appreciates that crowds are (and have been for some time) in decline and there are many posts saying the entertainment isn't what it should be which I have difficulty in understanding. 15 heats with 4 guys racing 4 laps? it is what it is isn't it? or is that to simplistic a view. What do people want for "More Entertainment" a water jump coming out of bends 2 and 4 with road humps at various points along the track? or jazz bands, majorettes and cheer leaders jumping round between heats like american football? No most fans who attend want teams with Cook Harris King Woofy NKI and Lambert (R not S) and any other array of top riders but all this costs. Without support for the promotion to stop them haemorrhaging money you wont have a team to support so whats the point of a Supporters Club.

So to me it is not even a chicken and egg scenario as the club must come first, as obvious as it is; if you don.t have a club; you have nothing to support; most if not all promotions are blowing their collective brains out and as sad as it is the situation Workington now find themselves in might just be the wake up call the sport needs as everyone is living beyond their means. I don't think Workington will be the final casualty in this saga either.

There are some genuine fans in Berwick who love their speedway and would follow their club anywhere and some of the detractors need to take a step back and if they cant support the club and help to generate funds they (IMHO) need to stop the infighting and take council with themselves and if they don't believe in what is being done and don't want to help so be it; at least let the fans, supporters whatever they want to be called get on in trying to support (save) the club.

Sorry if this has opened old wounds but look at Workington and their supporters (club) trust who injected large sums into the club, working with/for the promotion over the last two years and it still didn't stop the situation they find themselves in this year however if that money raise kept the club afloat for those two extra years then they contributed to a treble winning team last year so there was a successful outcome in that respect.

Regards
THJ

[allthegearbutnaeidea]

With the rumours of no Rob Grant doing food and no Dennis behind the scenes anymore with Scott already stating he wasn’t going to be helping a lot are we going to last very long at all? being honest.

[allthegearbutnaeidea]

6 minutes ago, TotallyHonestJohn said:

There are many valid points throughout this thread  off many people and I could have replied to any number of which; however as the one above is quiet succinct I will use this for my response

1. You certainly can not disagree with the statement "A supporters club run by supporters, is a supporters club (SC), of which the supporters decide on what any funds are spent on". However it is where and how the said SC raises these funds is the contentious part I would suggest. If the SC pays for a bus and runs raffles on the bus and self generates the cash amongst its own members there can not be an issue, it is when the SC are using the crowd in general in the stadium and the clubs facilities to raise these funds the promotions get upset, after all if the SC started selling hot dogs (widgets? raffle tickets, anything really?) they would pay the club (promotion) to do so for allowing them to obtain cash from the crowd at that venue and operating a franchise in effect

2, Again "A supporters club run by the club, is a funding stream run by the club for it's own benefit, and should not be called a supporters club, as it is without the control of the supporters" is correct to a certain extent however the SC or the funding stream should change its name as it is more of a Trust or the like; but it can still be run by the supporters or a SC without control of the promotion it just means that the revenues earned come back to supporting the promotion in running the team; however the basic statement is correct but again the frustration I would suggest from the clubs point of view is that much effort goes into running a SC for the benefit of the members but if the Speedway Team doesn't exist whats the point of a SC

3. This statement is the potentially the most valid "The way to support a club is to pay through the turnstiles.  The clubs responsibility is to provide adequate entertainment to achieve that". however everyone appreciates that crowds are (and have been for some time) in decline and there are many posts saying the entertainment isn't what it should be which I have difficulty in understanding. 15 heats with 4 guys racing 4 laps? it is what it is isn't it? or is that to simplistic a view. What do people want for "More Entertainment" a water jump coming out of bends 2 and 4 with road humps at various points along the track? or jazz bands, majorettes and cheer leaders jumping round between heats like american football? No most fans who attend want teams with Cook Harris King Woofy NKI and Lambert (R not S) and any other array of top riders but all this costs. Without support for the promotion to stop them haemorrhaging money you wont have a team to support so whats the point of a Supporters Club.

So to me it is not even a chicken and egg scenario as the club must come first, as obvious as it is; if you don.t have a club; you have nothing to support; most if not all promotions are blowing their collective brains out and as sad as it is the situation Workington now find themselves in might just be the wake up call the sport needs as everyone is living beyond their means. I don't think Workington will be the final casualty in this saga either.

There are some genuine fans in Berwick who love their speedway and would follow their club anywhere and some of the detractors need to take a step back and if they cant support the club and help to generate funds they (IMHO) need to stop the infighting and take council with themselves and if they don't believe in what is being done and don't want to help so be it; at least let the fans, supporters whatever they want to be called get on in trying to support (save) the club.

Sorry if this has opened old wounds but look at Workington and their supporters (club) trust who injected large sums into the club, working with/for the promotion over the last two years and it still didn't stop the situation they find themselves in this year however if that money raise kept the club afloat for those two extra years then they contributed to a treble winning team last year so there was a successful outcome in that respect.

Regards
THJ

On point 1, no money raising is done within the Stadium as the Club stopped allowing it despite still expecting donations, they also stopped the SC from doing the 50/50 draw and the last time a significant donation was made (past promotion) it was for a new medical room, the money was handed over and nothing ever happened of it/it has never been used to this day. The bad blood between the Supporters Club and the Club was being patched up with Scott Courtney and the SC but since he has stepped down there has been numerous articles on the website taking digs at the supporters club and I don’t think Jamie has once made contact with them to try and sort anything out. If John Anderson treated his fans a bit better non of this would be happening I don’t think, I know it’s a different promotion but they havn’t been going the best way about it recently have they?

[mac101]

Edinburgh’s  fans probably are the best for  keeping there club  afloat every year they raise some amount of money I applaud them 

[Gazc]

8 minutes ago, mac101 said:

Edinburgh’s  fans probably are the best for  keeping there club  afloat every year they raise some amount of money I applaud them 

Difference being the Edinburgh promotion value the supporters and everything they do for the club.

The Berwick Supporters on the other hand are not as appreciated by there promotion or there mouthpiece but that dosent make them any less important.

[Fromafar]

34 minutes ago, mac101 said:

Edinburgh’s  fans probably are the best for  keeping there club  afloat every year they raise some amount of money I applaud them 

They have faith in their Promotion who have been at the helm of the Club for a long time ,that counts for a lot IMO.They have been fortunate that their main money men back the club to the hilt.

[TotallyHonestJohn]

4 hours ago, allthegearbutnaeidea said:

On point 1, no money raising is done within the Stadium as the Club stopped allowing it despite still expecting donations, they also stopped the SC from doing the 50/50 draw and the last time a significant donation was made (past promotion) it was for a new medical room, the money was handed over and nothing ever happened of it/it has never been used to this day. The bad blood between the Supporters Club and the Club was being patched up with Scott Courtney and the SC but since he has stepped down there has been numerous articles on the website taking digs at the supporters club and I don’t think Jamie has once made contact with them to try and sort anything out. If John Anderson treated his fans a bit better non of this would be happening I don’t think, I know it’s a different promotion but they havn’t been going the best way about it recently have they?

Honestly

I can see it still rankles many people and I take it from your comments that you have been involved and as I stated earlier I don't want to stir up a hornets nest but what I will add is it does need someone to facilitate this whole process... In that I mean someone who is trusted and who can liaise between the parties ie the SC or trust and the promotion, as openness and good governance must prevail as people are being asked to raise and hand over cash... The process has to be seen as benefitting the club as a whole and supporting the club in their endeavours to remaining viable...

It's not easy and at Workington we alienated some fans but the monies raised were diverted to key resources in running the club and everyone knew where the monies were going and a committee agreed as to where it would be spent... Honestly there needs to be a coming together rather than having a go at each other as a lot of the current fan base have a great deal to offer and who knows what they could achieve if they pulled together.

Here's a daft idea get the thing up and running and retain (with agreement of the promotion) half what you raise which is used to set up a fund to buy into the club after all it is still on the market... you never know you could end up with a serious percentage if not all of the place and run it with a committee... just a thought..

Regards 

THJ 

[penchev]

What do other clubs supporters clubs do ? 

And how are the run ?

And how irionic that dick Barrie (who’s comments have upset some people) 

is to be inducted into the bandits hall of fame later this month 

Edited January 17, 2019 by penchev

[bigeddiechek]

I think there is nothing wrong with supporters clubs, in whatever form they take.

One thing I would say is if they are raising money under a club's brand, then they should have audited accounts each year.
I don't know if that is the case, but assuming it is, then they can do whatever they like with it.

The fact that they use the Berwick Bandits brand always opens them to a certain amount of legislation, which has always surprised my why they haven't called themselves something different.
The tax man can hook onto something like this very quickly, and aggressively, especially if historically the funds have been raised in - or around - the organisations base (i.e. Shielfield).

But I am pretty sure there will be robust auditing of financials in place, so - as the old saying goes - "move along, nothing to see here".

[allthegearbutnaeidea]

Yes the Supporters Club committee are about to induct Dick Barrie into the hall of fame next Saturday, and he has just made his feelings very much clear on what he thinks of those people who have just honoured him. If that doesn’t show you something, nothing will.