One Big League - Problem Solved

[Fromafar]

59 minutes ago, mikebv said:

Is it going to be yet more 'deck chair shuffling on The Titanic' again?

Deep down we all know it will be....

The time to be radical has almost passed...

Doing the same thing time and time again and each time expecting a different outcome was considered a sign of insanity according to Einstein..

Seldom wrong was he?

Agree, deep down you know another sticking plaster job coming up.

[Aces51]

I certainly think we need a bigger top division.

However, what I want to see are realistic and sensible plans,

to give the sport credibility,

to have a simplified rule book that is applied consistently and fairly,

to avoid unnecessary delays during meetings,

to compile sensible fixture lists that provide regular meetings and avoid cramming in meetings to meet play off deadlines,

to make meetings more entertaining by presenting a product that will not just keep the die hard fans happy but make newbies eager to come back,

to publicise the sport in ways that will appeal to both the young and to the thousands who have walked away, 

to allow tracks to run on whatever night attracts their best crowd. 

Easier said than done but we need radical thinking to present speedway as a dangerous and exciting but professional sport. To attract new fans we need a bit of  razzmatazz and some controversy by allowing promoters and riders a degree of latitude to react to the opposition and to decisions made by referees.

We know the status quo doesn't work, it has led us to where we are.

 

[OveFundinFan]

In reply to Aces51 - re the rule book......I thought Buster Chapman was going to sort that out, sure he said something to that effect when he became chairman.

[Fromafar]

9 minutes ago, Aces51 said:

I certainly think we need a bigger top division.

However, what I want to see are realistic and sensible plans,

to give the sport credibility,

to have a simplified rule book that is applied consistently and fairly,

to avoid unnecessary delays during meetings,

to compile sensible fixture lists that provide regular meetings and avoid cramming in meetings to meet play off deadlines,

to make meetings more entertaining by presenting a product that will not just keep the die hard fans happy but make newbies eager to come back,

to publicise the sport in ways that will appeal to both the young and to the thousands who have walked away, 

to allow tracks to run on whatever night attracts their best crowd. 

Easier said than done but we need radical thinking to present speedway as a dangerous and exciting but professional sport. To attract new fans we need a bit of  razzmatazz and some controversy by allowing promoters and riders a degree of latitude to react to the opposition and to decisions made by referees.

We know the status quo doesn't work, it has led us to where we are.

 

It's hard to tell how many NEW fans the sport is attracting but you can see by the crowd levels that we are losing a lot of OLD fans for various reasons,and just muddling along paying out more money every season.Its not going to end well for a lot of clubs.In the late 60's the National League was introducing and brought a lower level of competition and was an entry for young riders which was well supported and meaningful,now it seems we're just trying to reduced a lot of the sport to a lower level for financial  reasons and expecting the fans to stump up to watch riders taking Promotions to the cleaners,will no real throughs for anybody but themselves and its wearing thin IMO .

[waytogo28]

55 minutes ago, Aces51 said:

to have a simplified rule book that is applied consistently and fairly,

to avoid unnecessary delays during meetings,

to compile sensible fixture lists that provide regular meetings and avoid cramming in meetings to meet play off deadlines,

 

All three promises of change on this were broken, lost or just ignored. Getting rid of "gardening" for example - lasted three matches at King's Lynn. Unnecessary delays ditto ( now such delays are tactics during the meeting as we saw recently at KL - 35 minutes of grading during the meeting ). As for sensible fixture lists, we had two doubleheaders ( both times against the same opposition ) in a month. Hmmm. As Rosco recently said 'it is what it is" about all such things in UK speedway. I suppose that means take it or leave it - a point of view the Chairman appears to hold.

[Daniel Smith]

2 hours ago, Aces51 said:

I certainly think we need a bigger top division.

However, what I want to see are realistic and sensible plans,

to give the sport credibility,

to have a simplified rule book that is applied consistently and fairly,

to avoid unnecessary delays during meetings,

to compile sensible fixture lists that provide regular meetings and avoid cramming in meetings to meet play off deadlines,

to make meetings more entertaining by presenting a product that will not just keep the die hard fans happy but make newbies eager to come back,

to publicise the sport in ways that will appeal to both the young and to the thousands who have walked away, 

to allow tracks to run on whatever night attracts their best crowd. 

Easier said than done but we need radical thinking to present speedway as a dangerous and exciting but professional sport. To attract new fans we need a bit of  razzmatazz and some controversy by allowing promoters and riders a degree of latitude to react to the opposition and to decisions made by referees.

We know the status quo doesn't work, it has led us to where we are.

 

Bigger league I agree, but certainly not just 1 big league. 

[The Third Man]

If there are two leagues, one will be bigger.

the question needs to be at what level can we afford the big league to be

For quite a few seasons now clubs have paid out more money for riders they cant afford supposedly to get more fans in.

it hasn't worked, we need the pitch the "big" league at a level that can be afforded and then hope to rebuild, but it looks like that wont happen

obviously some clubs like to lose money year on year 

[BWitcher]

1 minute ago, The Third Man said:

If there are two leagues, one will be bigger.

the question needs to be at what level can we afford the big league to be

For quite a few seasons now clubs have paid out more money for riders they cant afford supposedly to get more fans in.

it hasn't worked, we need the pitch the "big" league at a level that can be afforded and then hope to rebuild, but it looks like that wont happen

obviously some clubs like to lose money year on year 

Utter nonsense.

For years and years the big teams have pandered to the small teams.. That is what hasn't worked. Constantly dumbing down to the lowest level in the league, losing both sets of clubs fans.

The 'smaller' teams used to get bumper crowds when the likes of Holder/Ward visited with Poole.. 

The league has been steadily weakened year after year... and crowds have fallen. 

As some riders are forced out, the next level of riders name their price and so you end up still paying out but for a lesser calibre of rider.

 

[GWC]

Can’t deny the loss of star names (through retirement and injury) has contributed to the decline in attendances and those coming through are not in the same class, but so has the quality of racing and the stadiums the sport is held in.

If we had 10 Belle Vues it would be a different story!

 

[BWitcher]

1 hour ago, GWC said:

Can’t deny the loss of star names (through retirement and injury) has contributed to the decline in attendances and those coming through are not in the same class, but so has the quality of racing and the stadiums the sport is held in.

If we had 10 Belle Vues it would be a different story!

 

The quality of racing has been discussed numerous times, it's no different. 

If Belle Vue was packed out every week that argument could be used... it isn't though.. and neither are any other tracks that are meant to have the best racing.

[Aces51]

The crowd numbers started to drop in the 1980's, long before the star riders departed. I am not saying that the drop in quality in more recent years has not had an effect, I can understand that some want to see the best, they were used to seeing the best and so now either pick and choose when to attend or, don't attend at all. However, I don't see it as the most important problem to solve. Get the basics right, rules, credibility, delays, entertainment etc., and make fans feel valued and you then have the opportunity for the sport to develop and grow to a stage where the top riders are again affordable.

Good facilities and producing tracks conducive to good racing will also help but again are not the answer on their own. I don't think there is a golden bullet, it's a mix of things that need to be put right but crowds were increasing at Belle Vue prior to being forced to race on Mondays and a return to a sensible race night will help to return to that trend. Many of the people who live in speedway catchment areas but don't know the sport exists locally, won't have a clue about the names of the top stars but find a way to get them to attend and it will be the quality of the speedway experience that will determine whether they attend again.

Edited September 28, 2018 by Aces51

[Icicle]

It has very little to do with format. Its the lack of publicity that has killed this sport. I remember, in the 90's I rediscovered the sport due to sitting in house near Powderhall, Edin, with the boys, hearing a noise, which I recognised & next week taking them. NOT because of any publicity, but because I recognised noise! During that time, even though Ed had been there for many tears, when talking to a good (all) friends all expressed surprised that "Speedway still existed"! In  other words NO PUBLICITY.

 

If you don't know you don't go....

[Daniel Smith]

Some of the best times as a Speedway fan for me has been in the second tier of British Speedway.

I'm not all that bothered by "star names" as such but what I don't want to see is rider's expelled from British Speedway because some can't afford them. The door should always be open for them if they're prepared to accept the wages and promoters are willing to pay.

[The Third Man]

2 hours ago, BWitcher said:

Utter nonsense.

For years and years the big teams have pandered to the small teams.. That is what hasn't worked. Constantly dumbing down to the lowest level in the league, losing both sets of clubs fans.

The 'smaller' teams used to get bumper crowds when the likes of Holder/Ward visited with Poole.. 

The league has been steadily weakened year after year... and crowds have fallen. 

As some riders are forced out, the next level of riders name their price and so you end up still paying out but for a lesser calibre of rider.

 

You pay what you want to pay, if everyone as a group got together to say No, it would be No,

but the "bigger" clubs will have to get the best, so they wont agree, well if they want speedway in this country to continue, they will have to act in the best interest of the group, not the individual, so goodbye to speedway

[ch958]

37 minutes ago, Aces51 said:

The crowd numbers started to drop in the 1980's, long before the star riders departed.

everyone conveniently forgets this when they go on anout dilution of talent - its the overall product not necessarily big names

[Whisperer]

7 hours ago, Grachan said:

Surely it would be good business for Berwick, Redcar and Scunthorpe to have teams like King's Lynn and Poole in town? Why is speedway so obsessed with getting teams exactly equal?

The teams would be built under the same points limits, or they could ride in the NL if they couldn't compete at CL level.

Speedway really needs the top division to be a decent size, even if it is set at current CL level.

If nobody will move up, what if the 7 PL teams say that they intend to drop down to the CL. What would happen then?

 

Please go back and look over some of the threads linked to those clubs after they lost at home in 2018 then you will understand why they don't want to get hammered at home. Regardless of the points limit many of the current PL clubs know just how to build a side to get the riders they want and Berwick, Redcar and Scunny will be the ones who get shafted by the experts who have been doing it to each other for years.

Edited September 28, 2018 by Whisperer

[BWitcher]

24 minutes ago, The Third Man said:

You pay what you want to pay, if everyone as a group got together to say No, it would be No,

but the "bigger" clubs will have to get the best, so they wont agree, well if they want speedway in this country to continue, they will have to act in the best interest of the group, not the individual, so goodbye to speedway

So, that happens in all sports and they continue just fine.

Speedway continues down a path of trying to do it differently.. and it keeps failing.

[BWitcher]

1 hour ago, Aces51 said:

The crowd numbers started to drop in the 1980's, long before the star riders departed. I am not saying that the drop in quality in more recent years has not had an effect, I can understand that some want to see the best, they were used to seeing the best and so now either pick and choose when to attend or, don't attend at all. However, I don't see it as the most important problem to solve. Get the basics right, rules, credibility, delays, entertainment etc., and make fans feel valued and you then have the opportunity for the sport to develop and grow to a stage where the top riders are again affordable.

Good facilities and producing tracks conducive to good racing will also help but again are not the answer on their own. I don't think there is a golden bullet, it's a mix of things that need to be put right but crowds were increasing at Belle Vue prior to being forced to race on Mondays and a return to a sensible race night will help to return to that trend. Many of the people who live in speedway catchment areas but don't know the sport exists locally, won't have a clue about the names of the top stars but find a way to get them to attend and it will be the quality of the speedway experience that will determine whether they attend again.

Agreed, but the simple premise of cutting the product and keeping the price the same for any business is doomed to failure.

[B.V 72]

People do have a point re big names bringing in the crowds.We had at Kirky lane one of the worlds greatest riders in Jason Crump yet the crowds are still bigger at the NSS,and I for one and I think a lot of Belle vue fans would agree get as big a buzz from watching Dan Bewley ride as I did watching Jason Crump.

Get the product right first ie no doubleing up, slicker run meetings,run with your own one to seven bar injury,well thought out even fixture list, with time spent avoiding any overseas clashes etc.

Even if we loose the few bigger names we have left the league will produce its own stars in time eg in the championship Craig Cook is a big name rider in that league and I would think would put numbers on the gate.

Two of the best races I have seen this year have included Cook and Fricke against Jason Doyle and Jack Holder swaping places throughout the race.Up against Doyle these three riders would be considered to be lesser riders but they held there own and even beat Doyle so if a few of the bigger name riders are missing next year I do not think the standard of racing we have watched this year will drop in the slightest,and the likes of these three riders will become the leagues top riders.

[GWC]

55 minutes ago, BWitcher said:

So, that happens in all sports and they continue just fine.

Speedway continues down a path of trying to do it differently.. and it keeps failing.

You can have the best footballers cricketers but not guaranteed to win anything.

Do the same in Speedway and you win everything so there is a big difference.

Promoters are very much aware of this and try and keep it balanced for everyone.(something US sports do)