One Big League - Problem Solved

[Grachan]

Ok, you could say I have too much time on my hands, but I put a spreadsheet together of all the riders who rode in the Pl or CL this year. Converted the averages of riders with no CL average using the 1.3 conversion, and produced a list of averages at CL level.

There were 129 riders between 18 teams. That is over 7 per team. So I took the top 126 riders. Worked out their total average - which was 817.60, then divided that by 18, which came to 45.44.

So, that's all there is to it. Next year should be:

One big league

Averages at CL level.

Points limit 45 (dropping to 42.50 on first set of Green Sheets)

Conversion rate 1.3

Maximum average of 12 (this only affects Robert Lambert, who came to 12.34).

Sorted. The only issue is with GP riders. What would they come in on?

The same as now, I guess.

 

 

 

Edited September 26, 2018 by Grachan

[*JJ]

Er ... the PL and CL are not the only leagues ...

[Grachan]

Just now, *JJ said:

Er ... the PL and CL are not the only leagues ...

Sorry mister pedantic. A merge of the PL and CL.

[*JJ]

While that may well be a good idea, isn't it true that league speedway as a whole needs reorganising?

[Grachan]

2 minutes ago, *JJ said:

While that may well be a good idea, isn't it true that league speedway as a whole needs reorganising?

Yeah. That's what I did. I re-organised it. Any better ideas welcome.

[SteveLyric2]

Hardly 'problem solved'?!  One problem is that many fans and several clubs and riders don't want it!

[Grachan]

Just now, Skidder1 said:

Hardly 'problem solved'?!  One problem is that many fans and several clubs and riders don't want it!

Why would they not want it?

Teams are pretty much at Championship level. Keeps them happy.

No PL riders are forced out the league by weakening. Keeps the PL happy.

Everyone is happy.

Happy happy happy.

The only issue really might be the points limit is a bit high for some people in the CL? It could, perhaps, go down to 42.5 to keep CL teams happy? That's a 2.5 drop for each team. Total is 2.5 x 18 = 45. One more team.

Fine. Get Birmingham in. One more team. Points limit 42.5.

Everyone is happy now. Woo-hooo. I've sorted out the league for next year.

[SteveLyric2]

I asked this question on another thread but think it got overlooked by several trolling posts at the time, BUT....

Which of the current Premiership clubs want to further reduce the standard of Premiership level speedway?  Fans at SGBP clubs are already saying they want the likes of the Zagars, Holders, Lindgrens, Vaculiks, Doyles, NKIs back.

[Grachan]

2 minutes ago, Skidder1 said:

I asked this question on another thread but think it got overlooked by several trolling posts at the time, BUT....

Which of the current Premiership clubs want to further reduce the standard of Premiership level speedway?  Fans at SGBP clubs are already saying they want the likes of the Zagars, Holders, Lindgrens, Vaculiks, Doyles, NKIs back.

That is not really an option at the moment. Personally, I would love to see those riders back, but it ain't gonna happen right now.

The thing is, if this was done we'd lose no more current riders due to the averages forcing them out, but we'd also have teams that are sustainable for the current CL teams.

Sure, it would be nice to strengthen, but the main concern for next year is that the sport is weakened further. This doesn't mean having to lose any of the current riders, at least, and also makes for an interesting larger league.

[racers and royals]

Would you care to list these 129 riders with the averages- because with most of the teams having 3 or 4 riders " doubling up/down" there must have been a lot of changes or dead wood amongst  that figure ?

[ch958]

excellent idea but i'd be lower than 44 or 5, more like 40

[ch958]

28 minutes ago, Skidder1 said:

I asked this question on another thread but think it got overlooked by several trolling posts at the time, BUT....

Which of the current Premiership clubs want to further reduce the standard of Premiership level speedway?  Fans at SGBP clubs are already saying they want the likes of the Zagars, Holders, Lindgrens, Vaculiks, Doyles, NKIs back.

well they'll have to get real then won't they

[Grachan]

24 minutes ago, racers and royals said:

Would you care to list these 129 riders with the averages- because with most of the teams having 3 or 4 riders " doubling up/down" there must have been a lot of changes or dead wood amongst  that figure ?

This is where the whole thing probably falls down, but it's looking a a principle rather than an exact science. The league could run to that strength and not weaken, and dead wood/changes can be replaced.

Anyway:

Robert Lambert 12.00
Jason Doyle 11.65
Krzysztof Kasprzak 10.97
Sam Masters 10.82
Hans Andersen 10.40
Martin Vaculik 10.40
Max Fricke 10.40
Troy Batchelor 10.35
Jacob Thorssell 9.97
Craig Cook 9.96
Niels Kristian Iversen 9.53
Rohan Tungate 9.49
Kenneth Bjerre 9.31
Brady Kurtz 9.24
Peter Kildemand 9.23
Jack Holder 9.14
Richard Lawson 9.05
Danny King 8.83
Rory Schlein 8.79
Nick Morris 8.76
Ricky Wells 8.76
Tobiasz Musielak 8.59
Steve Worrall 8.55
Erik Riss 8.50
Krystian Pieszczek 8.45
Kacper Woryna 8.35
Josh Auty 8.33
Charles Wright 8.21
Josh Grajczonek 8.20
Adam Ellis 8.20
Scott Nicholls 8.19
Chris Harris 8.15
Michael Palm Toft 8.12
Lasse Bjerre 8.07
Linus Sundstrom 7.97
David Bellego 7.80
Richie Worrall 7.57
Jason Garrity 7.56
Claus Vissing 7.55
Kyle Howarth 7.49
Claus Vissing 7.49
Nicolai Klindt 7.35
Ulrich Ostergaard 7.35
Lewis Kerr 7.31
Edward Kennett 7.25
Thomas Jorgensen 7.25
Lewis Kerr 7.18
Jake Allen 7.12
Josh Bates 7.03
Ben Barker 6.97
Aaron Summers 6.94
Ty Proctor 6.92
Rene Bach 6.88
Stefan Nielsen 6.82
Frederik Jakobsen 6.77
Dan Bewley 6.77
Ludvig Lindgren 6.77
Nikolaj Busk Jakobsen 6.72
Stuart Robson 6.69
Lewis Rose 6.67
Nico Covatti 6.65
Josh Bates 6.54
Victor Palovaara 6.50
Nicolaj Busk Jakobsen 6.50
Kevin Doolan 6.40
Rasmus Jensen 6.40
Lewis Rose 6.25
Tero Aarnio 6.21
Mateusz Szczepaniak 6.20
Cameron Heeps 6.19
Mason Campton 6.09
Ashley Morris 6.04
Kyle Newman 6.02
Jye Etheridge 5.95
David Howe 5.90
Mark Riss 5.79
Todd Kurtz 5.76
Bradley Wilson-Dean 5.74
Nike Lunna 5.73
Ben Morley 5.69
Daniel Gappmaier 5.68
Matej Kus 5.68
Paul Starke 5.66
Jonas B Andersen 5.49
Josh Pickering 5.41
Zach Wajtknecht 5.31
Theo Pijper 5.25
Matthew Wethers 5.24
Jonas Jeppesen 5.20
Kasper Andersen 5.20
John Lindman 5.20
Michael Hartel 5.20
Damien Drodz 5.20
Tobias Busch 5.07
Dimitri Berge 5.05
Jan Graversen 4.93
Joel Andersen 4.89
James Shanes 4.88
Emil Grondal 4.77
Ellis Perks 4.70
Mikkel B Andersen 4.69
Tom Bacon 4.52
Fernando Garcia 4.47
Simon Lambert 4.43
James Sarjeant 4.42
Carl Wilkinson 4.38
Max Clegg 4.23
Nathan Greaves 4.20
Matt Williamson 4.14
Broc Nicol 4.00
Gino Manzares 4.00
Jordan Stewart 4.00
Max Ruml 4.00
William Lawson 4.00
James Sarjeant 3.90
Danyon Hume 3.84
Connor Mountain 3.62
Jack Smith 3.07
Mitchell Davey 3.00
Alfie Bowtell 2.34
Georgie Wood 2.32
Jack Thomas 2.31
Danny Phillips 2.00
David Wallinger 2.00
Drew Kemp 2.00
Jack Parkinson-Blackburn 2.00
Joe Lawlor 2.00
Kyle Bickley 2.00
 

[Grachan]

9 minutes ago, ch958 said:

excellent idea but i'd be lower than 44 or 5, more like 40

That's where it falls down. You are diluting again, and alienating PL sides - forcing riders out.

[waytogo28]

1 hour ago, Skidder1 said:

I asked this question on another thread but think it got overlooked by several trolling posts at the time, BUT....

Which of the current Premiership clubs want to further reduce the standard of Premiership level speedway?  Fans at SGBP clubs are already saying they want the likes of the Zagars, Holders, Lindgrens, Vaculiks, Doyles, NKIs back.

Those fans need to bring friends in high multiples 2 / 3 / 4 each in order to finance even the Swedish menu! 2,500 average crowd needed? Is even Poole capable of doing that at the moment?

Edited September 26, 2018 by waytogo28

[GWC]

It needs radical change and not tinkering that has gone on for too many years.

I’m all for the changes suggested!

[RS50]

1 hour ago, Grachan said:

This is where the whole thing probably falls down, but it's looking a a principle rather than an exact science. The league could run to that strength and not weaken, and dead wood/changes can be replaced.

Anyway:

Robert Lambert 12.00
Jason Doyle 11.65
Krzysztof Kasprzak 10.97
Sam Masters 10.82
Hans Andersen 10.40
Martin Vaculik 10.40
Max Fricke 10.40
Troy Batchelor 10.35
Jacob Thorssell 9.97
Craig Cook 9.96
Niels Kristian Iversen 9.53
Rohan Tungate 9.49
Kenneth Bjerre 9.31
Brady Kurtz 9.24
Peter Kildemand 9.23
Jack Holder 9.14
Richard Lawson 9.05
Danny King 8.83
Rory Schlein 8.79
Nick Morris 8.76
Ricky Wells 8.76
Tobiasz Musielak 8.59
Steve Worrall 8.55
Erik Riss 8.50
Krystian Pieszczek 8.45
Kacper Woryna 8.35
Josh Auty 8.33
Charles Wright 8.21
Josh Grajczonek 8.20
Adam Ellis 8.20
Scott Nicholls 8.19
Chris Harris 8.15
Michael Palm Toft 8.12
Lasse Bjerre 8.07
Linus Sundstrom 7.97
David Bellego 7.80
Richie Worrall 7.57
Jason Garrity 7.56
Claus Vissing 7.55
Kyle Howarth 7.49
Claus Vissing 7.49
Nicolai Klindt 7.35
Ulrich Ostergaard 7.35
Lewis Kerr 7.31
Edward Kennett 7.25
Thomas Jorgensen 7.25
Lewis Kerr 7.18
Jake Allen 7.12
Josh Bates 7.03
Ben Barker 6.97
Aaron Summers 6.94
Ty Proctor 6.92
Rene Bach 6.88
Stefan Nielsen 6.82
Frederik Jakobsen 6.77
Dan Bewley 6.77
Ludvig Lindgren 6.77
Nikolaj Busk Jakobsen 6.72
Stuart Robson 6.69
Lewis Rose 6.67
Nico Covatti 6.65
Josh Bates 6.54
Victor Palovaara 6.50
Nicolaj Busk Jakobsen 6.50
Kevin Doolan 6.40
Rasmus Jensen 6.40
Lewis Rose 6.25
Tero Aarnio 6.21
Mateusz Szczepaniak 6.20
Cameron Heeps 6.19
Mason Campton 6.09
Ashley Morris 6.04
Kyle Newman 6.02
Jye Etheridge 5.95
David Howe 5.90
Mark Riss 5.79
Todd Kurtz 5.76
Bradley Wilson-Dean 5.74
Nike Lunna 5.73
Ben Morley 5.69
Daniel Gappmaier 5.68
Matej Kus 5.68
Paul Starke 5.66
Jonas B Andersen 5.49
Josh Pickering 5.41
Zach Wajtknecht 5.31
Theo Pijper 5.25
Matthew Wethers 5.24
Jonas Jeppesen 5.20
Kasper Andersen 5.20
John Lindman 5.20
Michael Hartel 5.20
Damien Drodz 5.20
Tobias Busch 5.07
Dimitri Berge 5.05
Jan Graversen 4.93
Joel Andersen 4.89
James Shanes 4.88
Emil Grondal 4.77
Ellis Perks 4.70
Mikkel B Andersen 4.69
Tom Bacon 4.52
Fernando Garcia 4.47
Simon Lambert 4.43
James Sarjeant 4.42
Carl Wilkinson 4.38
Max Clegg 4.23
Nathan Greaves 4.20
Matt Williamson 4.14
Broc Nicol 4.00
Gino Manzares 4.00
Jordan Stewart 4.00
Max Ruml 4.00
William Lawson 4.00
James Sarjeant 3.90
Danyon Hume 3.84
Connor Mountain 3.62
Jack Smith 3.07
Mitchell Davey 3.00
Alfie Bowtell 2.34
Georgie Wood 2.32
Jack Thomas 2.31
Danny Phillips 2.00
David Wallinger 2.00
Drew Kemp 2.00
Jack Parkinson-Blackburn 2.00
Joe Lawlor 2.00
Kyle Bickley 2.00
 

Well you have got Josh Bates listed twice in the list and Stuart Robson had retired. Two gone from the list.

[Grachan]

5 minutes ago, RS50 said:

Well you have got Josh Bates listed twice in the list and Stuart Robson had retired. Two gone from the list.

Thanks. One Josh Bates consigned to history.

I kept Robson as it is based on this year's figures. Replaced a Bates with Parkinson-Blackburn on 2.00 in the top 126.

That makes the total averages 812.56. Divide by 18 you get 45.14, so still over 45 per 7 riders.

As I said, it's not an exact science here. Just a quick check through to see if such a thing as joining the leagues is viable. I believe this proves it is.

[Daniel Smith]

1 hour ago, RS50 said:

Well you have got Josh Bates listed twice in the list and Stuart Robson had retired. Two gone from the list.

Lewis Rose listed twice and he also has retired. That's another 2 off the list

Edit

Claus Vissing and Lewis Kerr also listed twice. That's now 4 gone

Edit 2

Not likely to see Pieszczek again and definitely not Vaculik in the UK 2019 so they too need to be counted out.

Edit 3

Nicolaj Busk Jakobsen is on twice

Edited September 26, 2018 by Daniel Smith

[Grachan]

8 minutes ago, Daniel Smith said:

Lewis Rose listed twice and he also has retired. That's another 2 off the list

Edit

Claus Vissing and Lewis Kerr also listed twice. That's now 4 gone

Edit 2

Not likely to see Pieszczek again and definitely not Vaculik in the UK 2019 so they too need to be counted out.

I think you are all taking it far too literally. There's bound to be a few mistakes.

It's just a quick cut and paste job to see if two leagues are viable to join as one league. I think it shows they are, as it shows that the current riders can be spread out over the teams and the league can be run on a Championship level without dumbing down on the top PL riders.

That was my point, and I think that should be the discussion here, not if I accidentally put two averages for a few riders in my haste.

But enjoy doing that if that's what you'd rather do.

Why not use your expertise to put a few imaginary sides together under a CL format instead? Might be more interesting. See how viable this could be.

Guess we won't be needing Birmingham then.