Alarm bells at Plymouth?

[BobC]

Fridays 3 team tournament is being talked about as being the last at Plymouth. Post is from Promoter,Mark Phillips.

Copied and paste from the Plymouth Devils forum.

Hi all, I hope you will turn up in your droves next week as it is a possibility that it may be the last ever meeting at the raceway, The roumers are that the National league is to be scheduled with an even lower points limit for team building for 2019...as a promoter trying to get supporters in through the turnstiles I feel that having another 1 or 2 Wobblies in the team will be detrimental to the operation and give us an unsalable product. The step up to the championship league incurs the extra costs as listed below
 bond to the BSPA
Rider loan fees in the region of £10K to £14k
estimated rider signing on fees  of £15k
rider weekly wage costs of £7.5k
standard meeting costs of £2k
so in reality, unless major sponsorships are obtained there cannot be a future in the championship league
unless some forward thinking policy’s are put into place at the AGM, National league racing will also have no future.
i am in the position of not knowing what is happening in 2019 and it is a great concern, not only for myself , for the supporters and the sport in general.
for your knowledge, we have generally reached 400 to 450 spectators weekly and last night reached an all time low of 230. 
If there are any businesses / supporters who are able to contribute tax deductible funds please let me know.

Mark Phillips 

(stuck between a rock and a hard place yet again )

Read more: http://plymouthdevils.proboards.com/thread/9729/friday-28th-last?page=1#ixzz5S847H8dm

[Islander15]

Unfortunately both Plymouth & Isle of Wight have ran articles in the speedway star lately saying that a devalued NL isn’t viable and they may have to look at stepping up a tier. Obviously the costs of that can be as detrimental as running with many ‘wobblers’ in the team. 

[Halifaxtiger]

2 hours ago, BobC said:

Fridays 3 team tournament is being talked about as being the last at Plymouth. Post is from Promoter,Mark Phillips.

Copied and paste from the Plymouth Devils forum.

Hi all, I hope you will turn up in your droves next week as it is a possibility that it may be the last ever meeting at the raceway, The roumers are that the National league is to be scheduled with an even lower points limit for team building for 2019...as a promoter trying to get supporters in through the turnstiles I feel that having another 1 or 2 Wobblies in the team will be detrimental to the operation and give us an unsalable product. The step up to the championship league incurs the extra costs as listed below
 bond to the BSPA
Rider loan fees in the region of £10K to £14k
estimated rider signing on fees  of £15k
rider weekly wage costs of £7.5k
standard meeting costs of £2k
so in reality, unless major sponsorships are obtained there cannot be a future in the championship league
unless some forward thinking policy’s are put into place at the AGM, National league racing will also have no future.
i am in the position of not knowing what is happening in 2019 and it is a great concern, not only for myself , for the supporters and the sport in general.
for your knowledge, we have generally reached 400 to 450 spectators weekly and last night reached an all time low of 230. 
If there are any businesses / supporters who are able to contribute tax deductible funds please let me know.

Mark Phillips 

(stuck between a rock and a hard place yet again )

Read more: http://plymouthdevils.proboards.com/thread/9729/friday-28th-last?page=1#ixzz5S847H8dm

Historically, challenge matches against select sides almost always attract lower attendances (unless there is something special or unusual on offer). Looking at the teams last week, its little wonder the crowd was poor. 

20 minutes ago, Islander15 said:

Unfortunately both Plymouth & Isle of Wight have ran articles in the speedway star lately saying that a devalued NL isn’t viable and they may have to look at stepping up a tier. Obviously the costs of that can be as detrimental as running with many ‘wobblers’ in the team. 

Mark Philips 'rock and hard place' description is just about spot on.

My suspicion is that Isle of Wight and Plymouth will not be the only ones to consider their entire future if the points limit is devalued significantly. I suspect Mildenhall, Kent, Birmingham, Eastbourne, Coventry (if they continue) and possibly  Stoke would not want that. Even Belle Vue, who attract decent attendances for Colts meetings, would be wary of downgrading the standard to a substantial degree. 

That was shown last season when a majority of clubs wanted an increase in the points limit but due to some technicality it never came to pass. 

Its entirely possible that all of the above teams could not go into the Championship without huge financial risk yet they recognise that their fans do not wish to see a glorified training session. I can only trust that sanity prevails and the NL is allowed to go the way it wishes rather than being forced into a position which might well endanger the existence of its members.

Edited September 25, 2018 by Halifaxtiger

[cityrebel]

11 minutes ago, Richard Weston said:

It would not surprise in the least if a 6.5 average will be No 1 in the NL next year; forcing all those above either up or out. As I have said elsewhere on this forum, it will be little better than SDL (or similar).

The way things are heading, the NL is going to be hung out to dry to (try and) save the Premiership and Championship.

Just my personal view,of course.

I have to agree. The third tier has never got the recognition it deserves. These are certainly dark days for the sport.

[Sings4Speedway]

The major problem is consistency.  Set a limit and stick to it overwise riders averages count for nothing.  I actually believe a lower limit would generate more entertaining close racing as the gap in rider standard would be lower BUT it would require a huge flow of new riders in as many will end up with falsely inflated averages and stuggle to get a place the following season. 

[Halifaxtiger]

19 minutes ago, Richard Weston said:

It would not surprise in the least if a 6.5 average will be No 1 in the NL next year; forcing all those above either up or out. As I have said elsewhere on this forum, it will be little better than SDL (or similar).

The way things are heading, the NL is going to be hung out to dry to (try and) save the Premiership and Championship.

Just my personal view,of course.

Its a view that might well be right...…………..until the clubs decide that they can't afford to run at either a higher or lower level and start pulling out. That might change the position.

The worst part is that the NL should be allowed to decide its own destiny as a collective, not have some arbitrary decision forced upon them.

The only consolation is that I heard rumours at the back end of 2017 that the points limit would be very low, and it simply didn't materialise.

[Hawk127]

Perhaps if they run league meetings on a 4TT basis would that make a difference? Surely the powers that be really don’t want to shoot themselves in the foot with grass roots speedway (no disrespect to any club) being lost. Entertainment wise it is great and the IOW and Plymouth and all the others in that league are great ambassadors for the sport. BSPA get real.

[Islander15]

1 hour ago, Halifaxtiger said:

Its a view that might well be right...…………..until the clubs decide that they can't afford to run at either a higher or lower level and start pulling out. That might change the position.

The worst part is that the NL should be allowed to decide its own destiny as a collective, not have some arbitrary decision forced upon them.

The only consolation is that I heard rumours at the back end of 2017 that the points limit would be very low, and it simply didn't materialise.

Exactly. Unfortunately that’s happened too often in recent years so it wouldn’t surprise me if it happened again. Just look at the asset fiasco. 

[speedy bill]

National league is a great product,B S P A but out leave it alone ,A pay scale must be worked out to suit all clubs from Birmingham to Buxton say a top payment of £20 A POINT  and 20p travel.Any team paying over the rate to be fined ,if riders cant make it pay then sorry try to get a champion ship  place.  Or put up with it 

[SharpenRake]

Form a breakaway organisation and league outwith the BSPA e.g. BSDA and NDL. No doubt they will threaten riders that if they ride for a BSDA team they will not be allowed to ride in the future for a BSPA team. But can you see BSPA teams refusing to sign up and coming riders from the BSDA when they are ready for a BSPA spot? 

[teaboy279]

42 minutes ago, speedy bill said:

National league is a great product,B S P A but out leave it alone ,A pay scale must be worked out to suit all clubs from Birmingham to Buxton say a top payment of £20 A POINT  and 20p travel.Any team paying over the rate to be fined ,if riders cant make it pay then sorry try to get a champion ship  place.  Or put up with it 

Absolutely pointless, everyone's contract will say 20 quid per point. But not everyone will only receive that.

The stories I am hearing from people in the know is a) essentially what Mark Phillips has said 

b) 5 man teams being the alternative.

The strongest suggestions are that either scenario will force clubs like Brum, Eastbourne,Iow, Kent,and Mildenhall up a league.

Whatever the outcome The National League as we know it (the strongest league of all, mainly due to the BSPA totally ignoring it) looks set to be ripped apart to prop up the mess of the top 2 flights,that the BSPA have let go down the drain.

I can see positives in this if the 2nd tier can run mainly on British riders, one current promoter suggested to me that next year's championship 2nd strings would be NL  number 1s and Championship reserves would be NL heat leader and better 2nd strings level.

I believe from piecing together various bits of info, rumour, gossip, and speculation that by running 2 bigger top flight leagues, and then a pure development league it may make it easier to step up a level. And make the steps more achievable.

Other forms of motorcycle racing have levels of ability. For example

Club racing- national series- moto 3- moto 2 - moto gp.

To get more lads (and lasses) riding speedway their has to be a clearer path to progress along.

As it stands a top national league rider can earn more then a championship reserve, but if he stepped up to championship he would earn less then the original reserve as he won't be of the standard. So one is riding (and struggling) away at CL level, and a slightly lesser rider can almost earn a living out of maxing out at NL.  Which rider is better of in the long run though?

If we want a string of World Beaters which eventually attract main stream tv media, and then more sponsorships. There has to be some incentive to jump up through the leagues.

Question to Mark Phillips if the upper leagues are expanded and using most of the competent National League riders in the teams, would this significantly lower costs and make it more viable. And I have read various comments from Plymouth/Stoke/Brum and even Eastbourne fans say they would only return when higher league racing returned. Do you think these people would add significant numbers to the gate, and in turn make it more viable still? Plymouth is a great venue, despite the pig of a journey and the match day entertainment is up there with market leading IOW, so would be an awful loss to the sport. I totally see the rumoured national league proposals making it totally unviable for many clubs, I d suggest the limit of 32 would take gates at my club down by at least half.

These things need sorting out now, the powers that be need to be having meetings on a weekly basis and at least get the skeleton of a proposal together, and then consult us last few mugs prepared to do 500 mile round trips to support our team to gauge our opinions.

Every time the BSPA lock themselves in a room, someone or something seems to get screwed up, stupidity must be summed up by the saying "you can keep doing the same things and expecting different results"

Someone independent needs to get involved in the process and stop the year on year decline in every aspect of the sport, whilst the BSPA think they the best interests at heart, this will always be tainted with their own personal interests. So the committee essentially needs a dictator.

Personally I d get Barry Bishop in as the chairman, if he can't breath life into the sport I can't think of many that could.

 

Don't take any of this post as statement of fact, it is purely the ramblings of a frustrated and passionate fan, and a picture painted in my head by the snippets of info and mainly rumours I 've heard along the way.

 

[JCookie]

The NL should be a development league and nothing else. The fact that there's around 50 points between top and bottom just says it all. The likes of Mildenhall, Kent & Birmingham have no place in what should be a development league 

[Fromafar]

It's typical BSPA,"I'm alright Jack".

[Tigerforever]

Lots of replies to Mark Philips statement yet not one poster named the third tier of British speedway by its proper name, National Development League !  Unfortunately I believe rightly or wrongly this is now a stand alone league and no longer the development league it was set up to be,  If the talk about lower points limit in the Premiership to encourage teams from the Championship to move up is true then what becomes of the Championship?

Would the so called bigger teams in the Third tier move up ?

no matter what happens it seems clubs can’t find middle ground no matter what league they race in, 

You can’t tell me Buxton will ever challenge Mildenhall, or if the two top leagues merge can Scunthorpe compete with Poole

Answers on a postcard

[East End Fan]

2 hours ago, JCookie said:

The NL should be a development league and nothing else. The fact that there's around 50 points between top and bottom just says it all. The likes of Mildenhall, Kent & Birmingham have no place in what should be a development league 

Who decides whether the National League should be a development league and nothing else ?  Clearly JCookie does not support or go to watch N.L. racing.   At ANY level

there will always be teams at the top and teams at the bottom. Every N.L. club is a business just like those at a higher level. Does Jcookie think that all the investment made

and work done will be worth it to see very low standards ? He is deluded...in fact, the higher the standard of the 3rd tier, the better class of rider will be produced. THAT is a 

FACT and it is ignored by the BSPA who seem not to understand the sport they operate. Way back in history ( can't quite remember the actual date) the 2nd league broke away from

the Control Board and ran, I think, very successfully.  I can see the same thing happening again with the N.L. breaking away from the BSPA. And who could blame them ?

[Islander15]

The NL IS developing riders whilst also being a competitive league that people want to pay money for to watch. Look at Bewley, Bickley, Kemp, Edwards, Jenkins, Atkins, Mountain, Hume, Shanes, Bacon, Bowtell, Thomas, Stoneman, Brennan, Wood etc and all these riders have successfully made the step up or are very close to it. Ripping apart this league and making it full of sides like that Scunthorpe Stags team recently is not going to get fans to turn up and watch them and not going to prepare these riders for the step up!

[cityrebel]

Survival of the fittest is the new BSPA master plan, and sod the rest.

[Ghosty]

Nothing wrong with Mildenhalls 2018 team, they just struck it very lucky having so much YOUNG up & coming talent in one hit. With the existing rules they will have to say bye bye to several of their gifted team, possibly to the benefit of the opposition!    

[gee jay]

of course people like jcookie has that opinion . if i followed ipswich for example i'd love to have mildenhall as a nursery club so they could develope 15 yr olds for a year so we could acquire  them for nothing when they are 16 with no effort , financial or time wise . trouble is times have moved on since the sprockets ,mavericks , pumas , tiger cubs , spitfires and many more graced our tracks. we now have the youth championships and 3 development leagues for that very purpose . the last team to put a real development side together was scunthorpe which lasted 1 year because they were getting slaughered home and away and opposing promoters were complaining that they were having to pay their riders too much money. another fact is to look at all the teams in the N.L . only belle vue , kent and buxton are there by choice. all the rest are there because it was a straight choice between 3rd tier or oblivion . as i see it this same old self-benefiting rubish is going to keep coming back so for me the first thing to vote on at the agm is to change the name and just drop the development tag from the title , it was good enough for the top 2 leagues so it's good enough for us. 

[Fromafar]

1 hour ago, cityrebel said:

Survival of the fittest is the new BSPA master plan, and sod the rest.

Always has been their way out of trouble,trouble is there is a big injury list these days and still growing.