Peterborough v Lakeside KOC, CS SF & Play Off SF 6th/7th Oct

[BobC]

1 hour ago, New era Panthers said:

The referee Graham Reeve tonight was awful  he missed 5/6 ragged starts when riders should have been called back Newman clearly finished third in heat  7 but he gave third place to Wilkinson who was a wheel length behind  excluded Palm Toft in heat 6 for going over the tapes when it was already being pinned to the ground by another rider . Worst display I've seen from a ref in many a year he was shocking , Also in heat 2 Andersen nearly wiped every body out as he went towards outside bend 1 lap 1 but he allowed race to continue until he eventually crashed coming into the home straight lap3 then declared unfit to race and withdrawn from the meeting then allowed to come back into the meeting and take 3 more rides . Good luck to Lakeside in the final they deserved the win over 2 legs against a depleted Panthers side who generally were not at the races. I do think they will find Workington a lot harder to beat though

Agree 100%. Sat near start and couldn't believe his decisions. Totally inept.

[stevehone]

regarding the meeting tonight, how many clubs would have lighting available on site and ready to go, not many i would suggest

[PE7Panther]

3 hours ago, NeilWatson said:

A great deal of uninformed nonsense posted here tonight. I challenge any other Club faced with a major floodlight failure to be able to install temporary lights (albeit with a delay) and then complete the meeting.

Well yeah, but it shouldn't have taken so long.     

Sh*t happens and it'd be totally unreasonable to blame anybody at Panthers for an electric fault.  But the whole thing was an utter farce.  Given the fact that contingency floodlights were available on site -  and that must have been known beforehand - it should never have taken so long to get them set up.  

Some of what we witnessed beggared belief.  After ages watching Fred Karno's Army trying to fix the floodlights, and then fetching two sets of temporary floodlights, it was eventually announced that another (third) set were needed, and that they'd be put on the centre green to give more light to turn 3.  But Fred K's truck tazzed around the outside of the track  

After a further comical delay, Fred K brought them onto the infield - but set up them much too far from the track.  Everybody and his dog could see that most of the light was illuminating the grass and not the track.  It was also obvious that it hadn't been set at the maximum height, which surely was needed.  After several more wasted minutes, Fred K reappeared (I was half expecting the Keystone Cops to be following him!) and hastily raised it to the max.  Eventually the beams were redirected to give more light to the track, enough for the racing to restart.  But it could have been, AND should have been, all sorted out about an hour beforehand.   

Another thing: why didn't Panthers just concede and let the ref abandon it with the result to stand.  If my arithmetic is correct, we needed three 5-1 heat wins on the bounce to even make it a last heat decider.  There wasn't a snowball's chance in hell of that happening.  Anyway, I reckon about 2/3 of the people had already gone home by then. 

Yet another case of the speedway shooting itself in the foot.   

[stevehone]

there are regulations regarding where obstacles can go on the infield, not so easy as moving lights nearer the track

[PE7Panther]

3 hours ago, TonyE said:

, and the Lakeside reserves scored just two points between them.

You make a good point there.  Panthers' failure to win on aggregate wasn't anything to do with Lakeside bringing in those 3 riders.  It was their 'big three' that made the difference - as it was always likely to do. 

Anyway, bottom line is that Lakeside went through...... and deserved it.     

   

[PE7Panther]

14 minutes ago, stevehone said:

there are regulations regarding where obstacles can go on the infield, not so easy as moving lights nearer the track

I don't know what those regulations are, so I'm happy to bow to your greater knowledge and say "fair enough".  But they were not set up at the max height or directed onto the track enough when they set them up initially.  There is no argument against that. 

 

[PE7Panther]

2 hours ago, New era Panthers said:

The referee Graham Reeve tonight was awful  he missed 5/6 ragged starts when riders should have been called back Newman clearly finished third in heat  7 but he gave third place to Wilkinson who was a wheel length behind  excluded Palm Toft in heat 6 for going over the tapes when it was already being pinned to the ground by another rider . Worst display I've seen from a ref in many a year he was shocking , Also in heat 2 Andersen nearly wiped every body out as he went towards outside bend 1 lap 1 but he allowed race to continue until he eventually crashed coming into the home straight lap3 then declared unfit to race and withdrawn from the meeting then allowed to come back into the meeting and take 3 more rides . Good luck to Lakeside in the final they deserved the win over 2 legs against a depleted Panthers side who generally were not at the races. I do think they will find Workington a lot harder to beat though

I agree with you 100% on all the points you make here. 

Everybody around me was staggered when the red light came on to exclude Tofty.  It should have been white!   And, like you, I thought Newman had pipped Wilko on the line. 

Yep, good luck to Lakeside against Worky - I think they may need it.     

[PE7Panther]

4 hours ago, NeilWatson said:

Totally incorrect. Once a meeting starts it is the referee, and the referee ALONE who can decide to abandon a meeting. As staging Promoter I have no control over that decision.

At best, that's disingenuous.   If the two teams - riders & management - don't want to continue, and after discussions with all parties concerned, the ref will almost always go along with it.  There have been countless examples.  You may well say that it's the ref that has ultimately made the decision, and strictly speaking you'd be correct.  But trying to say, as you are doing here, that it's purely down to the ref "alone" is bull5h*t.      

[PE7Panther]

4 hours ago, Baldyman said:

Credit to Simon lambert...great score.

I wouldn't say it was a "great" score.  Ok, chalking up 13 points is always good..... on paper.   But it took him 7 rides.  He deserves credit for beating Ellis in heat 11, but the rest of his points were taken off their two reserves who did naff-all in the whole meeting. And 5 of them came by virtue of finishing ahead of team-mates (Wilko twice, Tofty, TJ & Grondal).   So I'd say that 13 points flattered him somewhat.       

[PE7Panther]

1 hour ago, stevehone said:

regarding the meeting tonight, how many clubs would have lighting available on site and ready to go, not many i would suggest

How is that relevant?   It's avoiding the issue of how long it took, and what an embarrassing shambles it was.  It was like watching Fred Karno's Army  

[stevehone]

32 minutes ago, PE7Panther said:

And, like you, I thought Newman had pipped Wilko on the line.     

after seeing my pictures of it i believe Mr Reeve apologised to Kyle

[stevehone]

Just now, PE7Panther said:

How is that relevant?   It's avoiding the issue of how long it took, and what an embarrassing shambles it was.  It was like watching Fred Karno's Army  

it's relevant because we had 15 races plus all the 2nd half, doubt that would have happened anywhere else, and people would go home after not finishing the meeting saying they'd been short changed

[PE7Panther]

28 minutes ago, stevehone said:

it's relevant because we had 15 races plus all the 2nd half, doubt that would have happened anywhere else, and people would go home after not finishing the meeting saying they'd been short changed

You're missing the point.  

Again  

If every other track wouldn't have had access to back up floodlighting - so what?!!  There's little point having it if it can't be set up quickly and efficiently.   I'd argue that it makes the situation even worse.  How many people would say that it was ok that it took so long and was such a shambles?  Not the hundreds who went home, that's for sure.  They effectively lost out because they gave up on the final 4 heats.  Nobody can blame them either.   And judging by the comments and moans going on around me, very few of the die-hards who stayed on to the bitter end thought it was all ok or acceptable either.  

If it had been called off promptly everybody would've been disappointed, and there might have been some moans.  But the vast majority would've accepted it as being just one of those things and beyond Panthers' control.  And given the fact that we were staring defeat down both barrels, it's not as if there was any realistic chance of going through.    

 

Edited October 1, 2018 by PE7Panther

[stevehone]

1 hour ago, PE7Panther said:

And given the fact that we were staring defeat down both barrels, it's not as if there was any realistic chance of going through.    

 

it wasn't just about that though, it was making sure ALL races were completed and not ripping off the public

[cityrebel]

5 hours ago, rocket007 said:

To be honest, both sides had probably had enough by then and made a gentlemans agreement. As for the curfew, I really don't believe there is one as I have been going to Rye House for many years and never heard of one before and several times in the past have been at the track until nearly 11.pm. It seems strange that one week when results matter, meetings can go on until 11pm, then the following week when the second result doesn't matter after heat 13, it suddenly becomes a curfew issue.

Exactly, I've been going to Rye since 1972 and have never heard of a curfew. If it is a new legal requirement, the meeting should have started at 6pm.

[Panthers89]

10 hours ago, rocket007 said:

How do you know Lakeside are refusing to ride? Are you there? Why would Lakeside refuse to ride as they are 12 points ahead on agg and unlikely to concede 4 5-1 in the last 4 heats. If meeting is abandoned, result would stand and Lakeside go through without refusing to do anything.

You can have a look at Geds post on the panthers Facebook to confirm that if you’d like as I can’t screenshot It. 

I personally wasn’t there as I’ve got to pick and choose my meetings this season due to a lot of other commitments which is needing my money sadly.

In answer to your question, I’ve no idea why lakeside refused to ride, it’s pretty stupid too, especially when it would have been a miracle for the Panthers to go through.

A frustrating evening for everyone it seems, the fans, the riders and the management. As Neil has said, name a team that could have the facility in place to replace the floodlights? In answer, no one. Yes a miracle was needed, but you’ve got to have a go and not give up surely? So Ged was right to try what he can. 

In the end Picking for Morley certainly gained another 6 points, but Kasper for Bowtell would have been a couple points less so the 4 points wouldn’t have made a difference. Without BWD at home, there are simply not enough heat winners in that team to cause any kind of trouble.

Good luck Lakeside in the final, panthers can still look forward to Scunny in the cup and league semi final against Lakeside, so the season definitely is over.

[Sully]

5 hours ago, PE7Panther said:

You make a good point there.  Panthers' failure to win on aggregate wasn't anything to do with Lakeside bringing in those 3 riders.  It was their 'big three' that made the difference - as it was always likely to do. 

Anyway, bottom line is that Lakeside went through...... and deserved it.     

   

and Josh Pickering.....

[Sully]

6 hours ago, PE7Panther said:

Another thing: why didn't Panthers just concede and let the ref abandon it with the result to stand.  If my arithmetic is correct, we needed three 5-1 heat wins on the bounce to even make it a last heat decider.  There wasn't a snowball's chance in hell of that happening.  Anyway, I reckon about 2/3 of the people had already gone home by then. 

Yet another case of the speedway shooting itself in the foot.   

Why should they concede when the result wasn’t decided. Not the sort of attitude I’d want from a team I support. Good job they didn’t concede with 3 races to go in 2006 when faced with the impossible eh...

[Noodles]

5 hours ago, stevehone said:

after seeing my pictures of it i believe Mr Reeve apologised to Kyle

Any pictures of Ellis touching the tapes before Tofty? Was clear to me and everyone around me and we were amazed to see the red light come on. 

[wealdstone]

Panthers were beaten by the better side. Poor choice of guests for injured riders (not necessarily the fault of management) cost dearly. It may well be that Panthers have made the wrong call in play off opponents.

Overall however Panthers have exceeded expectations this year.