BWitcher Posted December 10, 2018 Report Share Posted December 10, 2018 2 hours ago, DJWolves said: He too took a backward step in 2018 and I think most of us expected he would average more than 7.25. No he didn't.. and yes, most fans haven't a clue and simply fail to grasp the difference between riding at No 4 and No 1. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magnificentseven Posted December 10, 2018 Report Share Posted December 10, 2018 1 hour ago, BWitcher said: No he didn't.. and yes, most fans haven't a clue and simply fail to grasp the difference between riding at No 4 and No 1. I think most fans understood what a big step it was for him to take on the number one spot. The problem was that the promotion bigged him up for the task and were confident he would do the job which raised everyone's most people's expectations. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevebrum Posted December 10, 2018 Report Share Posted December 10, 2018 I personally though Jacob would do much better than he did, didn’t under estimate the task of becoming a number one however which proved he isn’t that level yet. Starting further down the averages (assuming he is returning) should see him back to the standard of 2017 although without the influence of Freddie he will struggle to top that. I hope I’m wrong of course. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJWolves Posted December 10, 2018 Report Share Posted December 10, 2018 Not sure I agree with either bwitcher or stevebrum really bwitcher doesn't seem to have grasped that Jacob was losing races in 2018 to people that he would have beaten by the length of the straight in 2017 But stevebrum I think Jacob will come back strong and will improve his average in 2019 and I wouldn't be surprised to see him top our averages Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BWitcher Posted December 10, 2018 Report Share Posted December 10, 2018 (edited) 15 minutes ago, DJWolves said: Not sure I agree with either bwitcher or stevebrum really bwitcher doesn't seem to have grasped that Jacob was losing races in 2018 to people that he would have beaten by the length of the straight in 2017 But stevebrum I think Jacob will come back strong and will improve his average in 2019 and I wouldn't be surprised to see him top our averages You've just shown you don't understand it at all in your answer. How much he increases his average will depend on his riding position. If he starts at 5 he will increase a little.. if he starts at 3 or 4 he will increase a lot. Edited December 10, 2018 by BWitcher Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dabbsjoe Posted December 10, 2018 Report Share Posted December 10, 2018 really liking the look of this team so far. one worry that i think actually cost us last season is we don't have an out and out number 1 in the team like we have in the past few years with Freddie or Tai. might not be so much of a worry this coming season as other than Doyle and maybe Iversen if he signs with KL i don't think there is another teams number 1 to worry about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJWolves Posted December 10, 2018 Report Share Posted December 10, 2018 and yes, most fans haven't a clue and simply fail to grasp the difference between riding at No 4 and No 1. You've just shown you don't understand it at all in your answer. ------------------------------- Well at least your responses will have enabled people to grasp what an arrogant tw*t you are, even if they wont be convinced about your level of understanding Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BWitcher Posted December 10, 2018 Report Share Posted December 10, 2018 (edited) 37 minutes ago, DJWolves said: and yes, most fans haven't a clue and simply fail to grasp the difference between riding at No 4 and No 1. You've just shown you don't understand it at all in your answer. ------------------------------- Well at least your responses will have enabled people to grasp what an arrogant tw*t you are, even if they wont be convinced about your level of understanding Not arrogant, just correct. Your response just further emphasizes what I said. I'll give you a chance though, name these riders that he lost to in 2018 that he was beating by 'the length of the straight' in 2017. I'll give you some help, barring a mechanical issue or a fall there won't be a single one. The difference between riding at No4 to riding at No 1 is around 1-2pts. Jacob's average fell by 0.72 (based on his average being 7.97 at start of year, not sure if that is the right figure). Based on that he at the very worst stayed the same, but realistically it appears he improved. The difference in riding at 4 and 1 isn't just about the significant difference in the fourth ride either. It's the mindset and pressure of being No 1. It's the first race being off the outside gates and of course it's about confidence. Edited December 10, 2018 by BWitcher Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Call me wolfie Posted December 10, 2018 Report Share Posted December 10, 2018 17 minutes ago, BWitcher said: Not arrogant, just correct. Your response just further emphasizes what I said. I'll give you a chance though, name these riders that he lost to in 2018 that he was beating by 'the length of the straight' in 2017. I'll give you some help, barring a mechanical issue or a fall there won't be a single one. The difference between riding at No4 to riding at No 1 is around 1-2pts. Jacob's average fell by 0.72 (based on his average being 7.97 at start of year, not sure if that is the right figure). Based on that he at the very worst stayed the same, but realistically it appears he improved. The difference in riding at 4 and 1 isn't just about the significant difference in the fourth ride either. It's the mindset and pressure of being No 1. It's the first race being off the outside gates and of course it's about confidence. He was actually 8.64 at the start of this year Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BWitcher Posted December 10, 2018 Report Share Posted December 10, 2018 (edited) 18 minutes ago, Call me wolfie said: He was actually 8.64 at the start of this year Thanks Wolfie.. I'd forgotten how crazy it was to sign him in the first place on that average So he went down 1.39.. which fits in with me stating (as I did before a wheel was turned last year) there is a 1-2pt difference between riding at 4 and 1. Plus of course factor in he was coming back from a nasty injury. Keen to know who the riders are he was losing to in 2018 that he was beating by the length of the straight in 2017.. or are we to assume this is made up? Edited December 10, 2018 by BWitcher Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevebrum Posted December 10, 2018 Report Share Posted December 10, 2018 1 hour ago, DJWolves said: Not sure I agree with either bwitcher or stevebrum really bwitcher doesn't seem to have grasped that Jacob was losing races in 2018 to people that he would have beaten by the length of the straight in 2017 But stevebrum I think Jacob will come back strong and will improve his average in 2019 and I wouldn't be surprised to see him top our averages I’m not sure what part you disagree with then as you seem to be agreeing with me! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BWitcher Posted December 10, 2018 Report Share Posted December 10, 2018 (edited) 22 minutes ago, stevebrum said: I’m not sure what part you disagree with then as you seem to be agreeing with me! Correct. You were both very wrong. The rider who will top our averages out of Masters, Schlein, Thorssell (assuming he signs) and Morris will be the one who spends the longest riding at 3 or 4. Edited December 10, 2018 by BWitcher Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Col Posted December 10, 2018 Report Share Posted December 10, 2018 5 minutes ago, BWitcher said: Correct. You were both very wrong. The rider who will top our averages out of Masters, Schlein, Thorssell (assuming he signs) and Morris will be the one who spends the longest riding at 3 or 4. What about if one of them rides at 2, with Howarth at 3 or 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Call me wolfie Posted December 10, 2018 Report Share Posted December 10, 2018 46 minutes ago, BWitcher said: Thanks Wolfie.. I'd forgotten how crazy it was to sign him in the first place on that average So he went down 1.39.. which fits in with me stating (as I did before a wheel was turned last year) there is a 1-2pt difference between riding at 4 and 1. Plus of course factor in he was coming back from a nasty injury. Keen to know who the riders are he was losing to in 2018 that he was beating by the length of the straight in 2017.. or are we to assume this is made up? Difficult to say, he's always been fairly inconsistent, 12 one week and 8 the next but the rolling average doesn't lie. 1-2 points harder at No 1 would seem to add up. Nick Morris had a similar drop after starting at No 1 also Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BWitcher Posted December 10, 2018 Report Share Posted December 10, 2018 (edited) 1 hour ago, Col said: What about if one of them rides at 2, with Howarth at 3 or 4 They won't but if they did, the same principle applies. Edited December 10, 2018 by BWitcher Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BWitcher Posted December 10, 2018 Report Share Posted December 10, 2018 14 minutes ago, Call me wolfie said: Difficult to say, he's always been fairly inconsistent, 12 one week and 8 the next but the rolling average doesn't lie. 1-2 points harder at No 1 would seem to add up. Nick Morris had a similar drop after starting at No 1 also Exactly. Which is why having two of them on such low averages... and neither starting at No 1 gives a big advantage. Masters will start at 1 but highly unlikely will stay there. One of those at 3 and 4 will move to No 1 at some point. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJWolves Posted December 10, 2018 Report Share Posted December 10, 2018 1 hour ago, stevebrum said: I’m not sure what part you disagree with then as you seem to be agreeing with me! Only the part where you said you don't think he can top 2017 without Freddie's influence, I think he can 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJWolves Posted December 10, 2018 Report Share Posted December 10, 2018 1 hour ago, BWitcher said: I'll give you a chance though, name these riders that he lost to in 2018 that he was beating by 'the length of the straight' in 2017. I'll give you some help, barring a mechanical issue or a fall there won't be a single one. -------------------- Haven't got chance to look back through the whole season, but for example Adam Ellis, Rohan Tungate and Richard Lawson Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BWitcher Posted December 10, 2018 Report Share Posted December 10, 2018 (edited) Tungate beat Thorssell at least twice in 2017 at Monmore, certainly did so in the play offs. I highly doubt Thorsell beat the other two, or indeed any rider in the top five of any side by 'the length of the straight'. Anyway, the simple facts remain.. signing Thorssell in 2018 was an awful, awful signing, almost condemning the team to a season of mediocrity before a wheel was turned. The signing of Thorssell in 2019 would be an excellent signing giving the team a great chance of success before a wheel has turned. Edited December 10, 2018 by BWitcher 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BWitcher Posted December 10, 2018 Report Share Posted December 10, 2018 26 minutes ago, DJWolves said: Only the part where you said you don't think he can top 2017 without Freddie's influence, I think he can Agree with you here, we have to hope/believe there is still more improvement to come from him. He has had a taste at No 1, it was tough, but he will be better equipped next time. That may well come this season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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