Derwent Park

[moomin man 76]

The size of the rugby pitch has been sufficient for both Workington Town's matches, as well as international games - most recently Scotland v New Zealand. However, it is not nearly a full sized pitch. Even a casual glance shows that the distance between the 40m and 30m lines on both sides of the pitch are not even close to being 10m apart.

[George Dodds]

On 9/20/2018 at 1:33 PM, rocket007 said:

You have explained exactly what West Ham have to do to cover the Athletics Track from being visible.(Premiership clubs seem to get away with doing what they like, as there was a written rule that stated no club can relocate within 3 miles of another League clubs postcode, which is why Orient kicked up a fuss, but were just over run) Gateshead would not be allowed to play at their Stadium if they get promoted from the NL. Looking on Google Earth, selling off Derwent Park and redeveloping Borough Park for both sports, with the Speedway behind on the old dog track would look like a good option.

Is this a new rule because it didn't stop Rotherham from playing four seasons at Don Valley in Sheffield between leaving Millmoor and building their new stadium, mostly in the bottom division.

[rocket007]

6 hours ago, George Dodds said:

Is this a new rule because it didn't stop Rotherham from playing four seasons at Don Valley in Sheffield between leaving Millmoor and building their new stadium, mostly in the bottom division.

I am not quite sure, but I think any new club wanting promotion to the FL can't have an Athletics Track around the pitch. Also, I believe Rotherham might have been given dispensation because a new ground was planned. West Ham were just allowed to bend the rules completely because they are Premier. Any other club would not have been permitted to do what they have done(mainly moving into another clubs post code)

[George Dodds]

The Comets' biggest problem is that they have nothing to offer the development other than potentially renting the stadium. The club also has a chequered history and regularly (like most speedway clubs) seem on the verge of closing/seeking new owners. You can understand why the football and rugby clubs would be loathe to build a new stadium which would be unpopular with their supporters, only to find that speedway disappears a few years after it is finished. To be part of the scheme someone has to offer money on behalf of the Comets - then they might find a way to include a speedway track. 

[Lord Lucan]

19 minutes ago, George Dodds said:

The Comets' biggest problem is that they have nothing to offer the development other than potentially renting the stadium. The club also has a chequered history and regularly (like most speedway clubs) seem on the verge of closing/seeking new owners. You can understand why the football and rugby clubs would be loathe to build a new stadium which would be unpopular with their supporters, only to find that speedway disappears a few years after it is finished. To be part of the scheme someone has to offer money on behalf of the Comets - then they might find a way to include a speedway track. 

Also tho George what have the Reds/RL club got to offer a new stadium?

Neither are competitive, Reds will very likely never be back in the FL and 42 yrs of failure probably justifies that, as far as Town are concerned they can barely compete in the league they are in and are more interested in the peripheral usage of the stadium by external factors?

It's without doubt a very awkward situation especially for three poorly supported sides to justify one over the other, a multi sports stadium nowadays would have to accommodate all sports or risk losing someone and potentially have a ground more beneficial to other activities than the sport itself that it's supposed to be built for? 

[singy13]

On 9/20/2018 at 9:57 PM, moomin man 76 said:

The size of the rugby pitch has been sufficient for both Workington Town's matches, as well as international games - most recently Scotland v New Zealand. However, it is not nearly a full sized pitch. Even a casual glance shows that the distance between the 40m and 30m lines on both sides of the pitch are not even close to being 10m apart.

Yep..apparently the smallest pitch in the British RL pro(semi-pro) game...?  But then it must be up to the requirements as required by the RFL law ?....great speedway track too......really pity to see it all go.

[George Dodds]

12 hours ago, Lord Lucan said:

Also tho George what have the Reds/RL club got to offer a new stadium?

Neither are competitive, Reds will very likely never be back in the FL and 42 yrs of failure probably justifies that, as far as Town are concerned they can barely compete in the league they are in and are more interested in the peripheral usage of the stadium by external factors?

It's without doubt a very awkward situation especially for three poorly supported sides to justify one over the other, a multi sports stadium nowadays would have to accommodate all sports or risk losing someone and potentially have a ground more beneficial to other activities than the sport itself that it's supposed to be built for? 

I suppose what they offer is the land that their current stadiums are on which then has a value to the council, which owns them, when redeveloped

[Lord Lucan]

10 hours ago, George Dodds said:

I suppose what they offer is the land that their current stadiums are on which then has a value to the council, which owns them, when redeveloped

The council already owns the land the grounds are on so for them there will always be rental income as well as a sale value!! 

A two sports venue only would probably see the developer as the landlord if the council chose to sell the land on and that could leave both Town and the Reds with a larger rental to pay for the use of it, (usually the way with private companies) and for me that brings in the viability of either to afford it? 

Upgrade the existing DP site instead could possibly be a better option but...at what cost to the track, and for how long, or, take a chance that the Comets will be around for a good few years and build a three sports venue, at least you could always expand the viewing areas into the track space in the future if speedway fails so it would have options for any eventuality? 

In any case it'll probably take year's to sort and build so it may not necessarily matter in the long term.... hope I'm wrong tho!! 

[ch958]

so the rugby, football and speedway teams attract roughly similar crowds. One question - do either the rugby or football teams bring players from all over Europe to perform in front of these crowds, and what do they get paid. For the football team i would imagine £100 a game tops.

[Lord Lucan]

7 minutes ago, ch958 said:

so the rugby, football and speedway teams attract roughly similar crowds. One question - do either the rugby or football teams bring players from all over Europe to perform in front of these crowds, and what do they get paid. For the football team i would imagine £100 a game tops.

No is the simple answer. Reds are just a p/t outfit playing in the Northern League and I'd imagine a ton per game for any one of them would be too costly for them over a full season? As for Town any foreign players are generally of the resident type and are offered a fixed rate contract or game by game fee, highly unlikely to be massive and sponsors will be helping out with some of it, it is a tight budget for them but....they seem to keep their head's above water but it's not just crowd's that contribute to their survival?

Difficult environment for all over here thesedays, not exactly awash with capital so you cut your cloth accordingly? 

 

[geoff100]

I would not trust the people.at "town" they have no interest in us except  milking as much from the speedway as they can .

[Lord Lucan]

6 minutes ago, geoff100 said:

I would not trust the people.at "town" they have no interest in us except  milking as much from the speedway as they can .

I was being diplomatic Geoff, deliberately left that bit out!! 

[singy13]

1 hour ago, Lord Lucan said:

No is the simple answer. Reds are just a p/t outfit playing in the Northern League and I'd imagine a ton per game for any one of them would be too costly for them over a full season? As for Town any foreign players are generally of the resident type and are offered a fixed rate contract or game by game fee, highly unlikely to be massive and sponsors will be helping out with some of it, it is a tight budget for them but....they seem to keep their head's above water but it's not just crowd's that contribute to their survival?

Difficult environment for all over here thesedays, not exactly awash with capital so you cut your cloth accordingly? 

 

Obviously the overseas/foreign Town players are 'resident' for the season......Town have finished a very creditable fourth in their division...therefore making the upcoming play-offs, sounds familiar eh ???..Town crowds have averaged 700 plus this season.

[ch958]

2 hours ago, Lord Lucan said:

No is the simple answer. Reds are just a p/t outfit playing in the Northern League and I'd imagine a ton per game for any one of them would be too costly for them over a full season? As for Town any foreign players are generally of the resident type and are offered a fixed rate contract or game by game fee, highly unlikely to be massive and sponsors will be helping out with some of it, it is a tight budget for them but....they seem to keep their head's above water but it's not just crowd's that contribute to their survival?

Difficult environment for all over here thesedays, not exactly awash with capital so you cut your cloth accordingly? 

 

which is exactly what is not happening at Worky or anywhere else in the 2nd div

[Lord Lucan]

56 minutes ago, singy13 said:

Obviously the overseas/foreign Town players are 'resident' for the season......Town have finished a very creditable fourth in their division...therefore making the upcoming play-offs, sounds familiar eh ???..Town crowds have averaged 700 plus this season.

Now, if you'd said Town had finished a creditable fourth in SL and averaged gates of 7000 I'd have been a lot more impressed!! 

20 minutes ago, ch958 said:

which is exactly what is not happening at Worky or anywhere else in the 2nd div

I bow to your superior knowledge of 2nd Division finance's my friend, a subject not close to my heart I'm afraid? 

[singy13]

3 minutes ago, Lord Lucan said:

Now, if you'd said Town had finished a creditable fourth in SL and averaged gates of 7000 I'd have been a lot more impressed!! 

I bow to your superior knowledge of 2nd Division finance's my friend, a subject not close to my heart I'm afraid? 

Workington Town RLFC are close to my heart marra......I watch both RL matches and Comets at DP...the RL crowds are bigger of the two at present.

And re Superleague...Town featured in SL1 in 1996...and it almost ruined the club....no population to attract the crowds required to compete at such a high level. So we make do with 1st Division, or if successful in upcoming play off - The Championship...it's probably similar to why the Comets are always in the second tier of speedway....it's just a small outpost of sports loving people.

[Lord Lucan]

1 hour ago, singy13 said:

Workington Town RLFC are close to my heart marra......I watch both RL matches and Comets at DP...the RL crowds are bigger of the two at present.

And re Superleague...Town featured in SL1 in 1996...and it almost ruined the club....no population to attract the crowds required to compete at such a high level. So we make do with 1st Division, or if successful in upcoming play off - The Championship...it's probably similar to why the Comets are always in the second tier of speedway....it's just a small outpost of sports loving people.

Pleased to read that and I appreciate your passion for your sports!! 

I am well aware of how Town didn't survive in SL and I visited every single ground in the country at the time witnessing the evidence first hand for the two seasons we did survive?

We could and should have survived in that division, my opinion, and we had the crowds to achieve this but didn't capitalize on the opportunity?

I doubt we'll ever see SL again but to achieve the standard required even in the next league up is going to take financial backing this area doesn't have!!

Some things certainly have to change with regards all sports but, will any venture be supported enough to succeed? 

I want "ALL" sport's catered for in this town not just the one's with the scourge of modern sport....."self interest" does that sound familiar eh..marra?? 

 

Edited September 23, 2018 by Lord Lucan
Add text.

[singy13]

12 hours ago, Lord Lucan said:

Pleased to read that and I appreciate your passion for your sports!! 

I am well aware of how Town didn't survive in SL and I visited every single ground in the country at the time witnessing the evidence first hand for the two seasons we did survive?

We could and should have survived in that division, my opinion, and we had the crowds to achieve this but didn't capitalize on the opportunity?

I doubt we'll ever see SL again but to achieve the standard required even in the next league up is going to take financial backing this area doesn't have!!

Some things certainly have to change with regards all sports but, will any venture be supported enough to succeed? 

I want "ALL" sport's catered for in this town not just the one's with the scourge of modern sport....."self interest" does that sound familiar eh..marra?? 

 

Town only played one season in Superleague...which was SL1...and were relegated, never to return - yet - after finishing bottom of the table.

[Marksman]

38 minutes ago, singy13 said:

Town only played one season in Superleague...which was SL1...and were relegated, never to return - yet - after finishing bottom of the table.

Town played 2 consecutive seasons of Top Flight RL in the 90's, but your right it was rebranded to the Super league in '96 and only won 2 games all season before being relegated.  It all went downhill after Peter Walsh left and went back to Australia before SL1...

[Lord Lucan]

32 minutes ago, singy13 said:

Town only played one season in Superleague...which was SL1...and were relegated, never to return - yet - after finishing bottom of the table.

Being as we're just nit picking now Town played in the First Division 1995/96 after winning promotion and just missing the play off places, due to the new SL format being a "summer" objective they carried straight on into SL1 after barely finishing their original Div1 fixtures hence why I quoted "two" seasons in the top flight which effectively it was, one after the other and another reason why we didn't survive?

Oh and by the way, do you remember wondering why every time we won a match in that era and moved off the bottom of the table that French side always managed to beat someone they shouldn't have just to put us back down again, there was self interest in RL back then as well?