Derwent Park

[singy13]

20 minutes ago, TotallyHonestJohn said:

When its gone its gone and it will be dam hard to bring back

Guess I'm being selfish, though it's realistic, because you are right when it's gone can't see it coming back quickly.....though craic going around of new input re promoter for 2019 ?

And the original title of this stream was when I sort of panicked at hearing Derwent Park...my good old venue of thrills, spills and tears, is going soon....... so speedway is not going to be long term whatever.

Re the late great, tho contradictory at times, Ian Thomas......wasn't he just the 'front man' for Tony(moneybags)Mole?

[TotallyHonestJohn]

Honesty 

I never dealt business wise with Ian Thomas but I have heard he could be hard to deal with at times and if you could see what he could do with a pack of cards you would never have played Poker with the guy as his slight of hand was amazing and he was definitely what you would class as "Marmite" but I thought the guy was great and could have listened to his stories all day long. However he was definitely his own man in my opinion and although a small guy he was a great character and a big miss.

Regards
THJ

[comet49]

I'm not too pessimistic about next season having heard from two different sources that we're running, rumours maybe, just hope they're right.

Edited September 26, 2018 by comet49

[topaz325]

5 hours ago, singy13 said:

Hope 'the word' does influence larger crowds - somehow it needs shouted from the proverbial rooftops ??? ....like I said there's only the diehards on here.

Regarding £75k............that was the figure a renowned local 'sports person' told me the night of the Diamonds match (mis-match actually)..

I still recall the Workington guru Ian Thomas telling us - approx 10 yrs ago- that "the honeymoon isn't over yet"..given that Comets were still attracting 1,200 folk to Derwent Park.

And the blind optimist in me still thinks that the sport is capable of another honeymoon at Workington...maybe the upcoming re-structuring during the winter can be the saviour?

Meanwhile let's all Comets fans on here get behind the best team in blue and white, Workington style, for years.

I very much doubt your optimism and I’m a glass half full guy.

[Tsunami]

4 hours ago, singy13 said:

Guess I'm being selfish, though it's realistic, because you are right when it's gone can't see it coming back quickly.....though craic going around of new input re promoter for 2019 ?

And the original title of this stream was when I sort of panicked at hearing Derwent Park...my good old venue of thrills, spills and tears, is going soon....... so speedway is not going to be long term whatever.

Re the late great, tho contradictory at times, Ian Thomas......wasn't he just the 'front man' for Tony(moneybags)Mole?

Don't think so. Thomas created good teams and venues, and when they didn't make money he dropped them. No need for Tony Mole, and he had to remortgage his house when he was duped by his promotion partner.

[singy13]

53 minutes ago, Tsunami said:

Don't think so. Thomas created good teams and venues, and when they didn't make money he dropped them. No need for Tony Mole, and he had to remortgage his house when he was duped by his promotion partner.

What people do for the love of this wonderful sport, or as in Ian's case -did-  is/was often above and beyond the call of duty. And it must be (have been) soul destroying to try and keep their speedway input going....... a far cry from Football/Golf/Tennis/RU and other wealthier sports....easy life for those non-minority outfits eh?

[SteelShoe]

8 hours ago, TotallyHonestJohn said:

Honestly

You can put a 1 in front of that £75 K singy13 as the cost to run the Comets this year will be in excess of £175 K with a generated income of around £115 K on the original 16 home + 16 away meetings so that is a £60 K shortfall before you turn a wheel (so this is where sponsorship would fill the gap). To cover this cost with paying customers (crowd) alone there needs to be approximately 850 fans through the door and that is at a combined rate of £12.50 per person to allow for concessions, the last two crowds were 391 for the Newcastle meeting and 497 for the Scunthorpe one so working it out on the back of a fag packet those two meetings will have cost the promotion the thick end of a £10 K loss to run over the two meetings. Also the crowd for these two meetings needs to cover the cost of the away legs where Workington performed quite well so riders wages increase because of higher points scored and there is now no contribution against rider costs from the home side as there used to be in the past.

The other irony is that the more successful you are as a club the more it costs, teams not reaching semi finals, finals and play offs will obviously lose less money, due to having less meetings, but the Catch 22 on this is if you have a poor team the crowds dwindle so you end up in a spiral of lower crowds, less money to spend on the team, so poorer league position and a cycle that can be hard to break, especially in the current adversarial environment there is between promotions, there is no reward for a successful speedway team as the more meetings you run the more you lose and the "Myth" of these finals and play off meetings generating bigger crowds is just that.

However I would expect (surely) the next two home meetings with Glasgow and Edinburgh to bring in a few more fans through the door and swell the numbers on the terraces as both clubs, like Workington; have a healthy travelling contingent who follow their team, but I very much doubt we will see the crowd break 1000 fans with a more realistic figure around the 650 to 700 maximum, but I live in hope and who knows the word may get out in Cumbria and those lost fans from the 70's, 80's and early 90's come flooding back

Regards
THJ

Well THJ i reckon after reading that depressing post of brutal reality you should change your username to THD. Total Harbinger of Doom lol.  We may as well lock the gates and call an end to the season now it would at least save Laura  some money she can ill afford to lose.

Apart from riders getting injured the only thing that gets me down when i visit Derwent Park are nights when the crowd is poor. Poor compared to what though ?, crowd levels during the Stoney years? or to the current crowd levels of most teams in the Championship. I've visited most Championship clubs this season and doubt whether many if any teams have commanded the 850 fans you state are needed to break even. So there will be more than Worky struggling.

 Speedway is going through a malaise partly self created. Its contributing insidiously to its own demise, ostrich syndrome  still appears to rule  supreme in the corridors of speedway power.

Lost fans won't come back overnight, when you have fallen out of love with something the attraction to give it another go has to be strong . Then you need to enjoy the experience and feel part of something. If we were to make the play off final and win the championship shield then that could be the catalyst. 

The sport desperately needs a really big sponsor but its unlikely to happen.  

The Comets are currently stretched beyond there means . Everyone wants an attractive winning side but the  gate receipts plus additional income from sponsorship etc ain't balancing the books. So what is the answer to the problem then THJ . 

 

 

 

[scaramanga]

4 hours ago, comet49 said:

I'm not too pessimistic about next season having heard from two different sources that we're running, rumours maybe, just hope they're right.

ive hear 3 different rumours about next year 

I off wich I know is wrong as I know the person linked in running it 

the 2nd I don't know personaly but know enough about them to know they wont be running it by them selves so guess that's a no go aswell 

and the other well if true good luck to them but I will be pleasantly surprised if they do take over and run it 

as much as id like to see speedway continue I don't want to see anyone hit financial trouble running it 

 

Edited September 26, 2018 by scaramanga

[comet49]

1 hour ago, scaramanga said:

ive hear 3 different rumours about next year 

I off wich I know is wrong as I know the person linked in running it 

the 2nd I don't know personaly but know enough about them to know they wont be running it by them selves so guess that's a no go aswell 

and the other well if true good luck to them but I will be pleasantly surprised if they do take over and run it 

as much as id like to see speedway continue I don't want to see anyone hit financial trouble running it 

 

Laura did say a week or two ago that “we can’t do anything til we know about the stadium” or similar, perhaps it may be the case of someone else joining her.  I remember Hull winning the league and having to finish cos they had no stadium, sickener for their fans. As always time will tell, everything crossed. 

Edited September 26, 2018 by comet49

[Tsunami]

20 hours ago, SteelShoe said:

Well THJ i reckon after reading that depressing post of brutal reality you should change your username to THD. Total Harbinger of Doom lol.  We may as well lock the gates and call an end to the season now it would at least save Laura  some money she can ill afford to lose.

Apart from riders getting injured the only thing that gets me down when i visit Derwent Park are nights when the crowd is poor. Poor compared to what though ?, crowd levels during the Stoney years? or to the current crowd levels of most teams in the Championship. I've visited most Championship clubs this season and doubt whether many if any teams have commanded the 850 fans you state are needed to break even. So there will be more than Worky struggling.

 Speedway is going through a malaise partly self created. Its contributing insidiously to its own demise, ostrich syndrome  still appears to rule  supreme in the corridors of speedway power.

Lost fans won't come back overnight, when you have fallen out of love with something the attraction to give it another go has to be strong . Then you need to enjoy the experience and feel part of something. If we were to make the play off final and win the championship shield then that could be the catalyst. 

The sport desperately needs a really big sponsor but its unlikely to happen.  

The Comets are currently stretched beyond there means . Everyone wants an attractive winning side but the  gate receipts plus additional income from sponsorship etc ain't balancing the books. So what is the answer to the problem then THJ . 

 

 

 

Your opening gate at Derwent Park in 1999 was 4,400 when my team opened you up at the invitation of Thomas. After the early euphoria, the gates settled down to about 2200 and you had the biggest number of travelling fans, except for the early days with Newport being top dogs till they hit a slump under Tim Stone. Most Championship clubs have never seen those sort of numbers, so Workington's slump to present day is greater  by comparison.  

[TotallyHonestJohn]

21 hours ago, SteelShoe said:

The Comets are currently stretched beyond there means . Everyone wants an attractive winning side but the  gate receipts plus additional income from sponsorship etc ain't balancing the books. So what is the answer to the problem then THJ . 

Win the lottery and run it as a hobby then who gives a monkey's you can be the only one in the stand.(oh and let your pals in for free) (might have to be the Euro for that to happen like eh)

Chatting to one or two promoters the feed back and feel I am getting is if you do not have secondary channels of funding, bar, food, training track to rent, other facilities to let, stock cars etc to market, it becomes very difficult to run a competitive team at even championship level. Read the release from Rosco on the Robins web site he puts it in open and honest terms about an up and coming meeting (and previous ones) that have the potential to hurt their club financially and it seems indicative of the sport.

Buster and Rob get stick from most quarters on here but believe me when I say they do have the best interests of the sport at heart and they are actively looking to improve (or save) where they can, but they are meeting opposition and resistance in every corner, its not my place to state what is going on but I honestly feel for these guys.

Look at the post above by Tsunami, if Worky could attract (and retain) half those 2200 fans back to DP it wouldn't be a problem, so my question to you would be what has changed from then to now, what has made these people attend then and not now, what has changed so dramatically that these fans have deserted the sport in there droves (they couldn't all have died) what has changed so much to stop these fans from coming back (as I wasn't around in those days) as it is still 4 guys racing round a track.

That's your answer for the Worky predicament "people through the doors" as the Worky promotion have very little scope for additional revenue schemes.

Or a generous benefactor or sponsor would do it

Regards
THJ

Edited September 27, 2018 by TotallyHonestJohn

[Pinny]

8 hours ago, Tsunami said:

Your opening gate at Derwent Park in 1999 was 4,400 when my team opened you up at the invitation of Thomas. After the early euphoria, the gates settled down to about 2200 and you had the biggest number of travelling fans, except for the early days with Newport being top dogs till they hit a slump under Tim Stone. Most Championship clubs have never seen those sort of numbers, so Workington's slump to present day is greater  by comparison.  

Workington and Newport by far had the best travelling support and probably home support in the 99-2000 era. Newport would take 500 fans up the road to Reading and Swindon, and a few hundred to Exeter.

Workington I went in 99 and 2000 and the place was packed , and they always brought healthy numbers down to Newport. Think they done Stoke Saturday, Newport Sunday and Exeter Monday. Remember Stonehewer saying in the bar one afternoon at Newport that he had to ride three of his worst tracks in three days in a row! 

Its a crying shame how numbers have fallen hugely all over the UK, the old PL probably used to have an average of about 1100.

Seeing Newport attract crowds as low as 250 in their last years was upsetting, the place could of been a hot bed for speedway. 

Tim Stone worked wonders getting the place going and had the world at his feet during the first three years, and I still believe the year he paid huge wages to the side with Cunningham and Masters in it was the beginning of the end for speedway in Newport, even if it did still run for ten years after. I know for a fact Stoney paid huge money before a wheel had started on that side, and they finished bottom. Cunningham alone lost the club many fans who refused to go and support the club whilst he was there with his anti Welsh comments, despite being half Welsh himself.

Stoney got Wato and Smart back the following year but built the rest of the side all wrong, and never got the same sized crowds back in. After that he was content in paying whatever Wato wanted to resign him, and didnt really care about the rest of the side hence so many wooden spoons. That coupled with his attitude to the fans, driving many people away, meant he slowly run the club into the ground.

Along came the Malletts with a load of money, had the clubs interests at heart but made a lot of mistakes and couldnt get decent crowds back in. 

I do believe had Stoney still been alive the club would still be running in the third tier with probably a tiny fan base.

i wasnt a fan of his, far from it. But there is no doubt that Newport Speedway had enormous potential, their early crowds were huge and passionate, and the type of crowd who wouldnt want the party to end until the product was no longer value for money. And thats what happened.

Workington Speedway has also never really hit it off since Mole left. A few different promoters who have all struggled to get the original fans back and probably never will.

[mikebv]

12 hours ago, TotallyHonestJohn said:

Win the lottery and run it as a hobby then who gives a monkey's you can be the only one in the stand.(oh and let your pals in for free) (might have to be the Euro for that to happen like eh)

Chatting to one or two promoters the feed back and feel I am getting is if you do not have secondary channels of funding, bar, food, training track to rent, other facilities to let, stock cars etc to market, it becomes very difficult to run a competitive team at even championship level. Read the release from Rosco on the Robins web site he puts it in open and honest terms about an up and coming meeting (and previous ones) that have the potential to hurt their club financially and it seems indicative of the sport.

Buster and Rob get stick from most quarters on here but believe me when I say they do have the best interests of the sport at heart and they are actively looking to improve (or save) where they can, but they are meeting opposition and resistance in every corner, its not my place to state what is going on but I honestly feel for these guys.

Look at the post above by Tsunami, if Worky could attract (and retain) half those 2200 fans back to DP it wouldn't be a problem, so my question to you would be what has changed from then to now, what has made these people attend then and not now, what has changed so dramatically that these fans have deserted the sport in there droves (they couldn't all have died) what has changed so much to stop these fans from coming back (as I wasn't around in those days) as it is still 4 guys racing round a track.

That's your answer for the Worky predicament "people through the doors" as the Worky promotion have very little scope for additional revenue schemes.

Or a generous benefactor or sponsor would do it

Regards
THJ

What has changed so dramatically THJ?

Disposable income...

Nowadays we have mobile bills not just for ourselves but our children, nowadays we pay out big money for cable/satellite TV,  nowadays we pay out more big money for access to the Internet, and nowadays we pay fortunes on utility bills, public transport costs and fuel for private travel, insurance on housing and vehicles, higher rental charges, and obviously ever increasing mortgage values on ever increasing house prices...

All the while that has been taking place, Speedway has obviously seen some of the same costs rising, so it's answer was to reduce the quality of the product on offer but brought in umpteen inflation busting price rises on the back of it..

Team Speedway (in the UK),  has no way back from here I would suggest...

 

[John7]

The problem I feel is that the word trendy has a major part to play. A nation that is social media driven has to be keeping up apparences. Pictures are fabricated on social media to gain approval when most of the time events or activities look to be fantastic but are they really? . Also. Darts, boxing and horse racing are all popular sporting events at the present moment and they have two major factors in common alcohol and gambling!

 

[singy13]

1 hour ago, John7 said:

The problem I feel is that the word trendy has a major part to play. A nation that is social media driven has to be keeping up apparences. Pictures are fabricated on social media to gain approval when most of the time events or activities look to be fantastic but are they really? . Also. Darts, boxing and horse racing are all popular sporting events at the present moment and they have two major factors in common alcohol and gambling!

 

The first meeting of a speedway era has many 'newbies' attend to see what goes on in this sport...it's a novelty factor that sees a good crowd then dwindle to those who remain addicted.

It's happened twice at Workington in my time.

My earliest personal fix came in 1970.......5,000+ to see Comets v Bandits....that season crowds were about 3,000 and the Comets hero was Bob Valentine...when he didn't reappear for 1971 many followers were lost too....Lou Sansom was a star too...but sadly the crowds dwindled, many promoters tried revivals...but no one recaptured the publics attention enough to continue, so by 1981 it was a lost cause.. then came 1999 and the wonderful Stoney....he was just great and the fans came in good numbers again......now I have been optimistic of such a revival happening at DP again..lots of keyboard Comets seem to disagree tho.......but will remain hopeful that the 'star' can yet again shine for Comets and bring the floaters out there back????

[singy13]

......hic

[scaramanga]

30 minutes ago, singy13 said:

The first meeting of a speedway era has many 'newbies' attend to see what goes on in this sport...it's a novelty factor that sees a good crowd then dwindle to those who remain addicted.

It's happened twice at Workington in my time.

My earliest personal fix came in 1970.......5,000+ to see Comets v Bandits....that season crowds were about 3,000 and the Comets hero was Bob Valentine...when he didn't reappear for 1971 many followers were lost too....Lou Sansom was a star too...but sadly the crowds dwindled, many promoters tried revivals...but no one recaptured the publics attention enough to continue, so by 1981 it was a lost cause.. then came 1999 and the wonderful Stoney....he was just great and the fans came in good numbers again......now I have been optimistic of such a revival happening at DP again..lots of keyboard Comets seem to disagree tho.......but will remain hopeful that the 'star' can yet again shine for Comets and bring the floaters out there back????

sometimes for this to happen people need to loose it first to make them realise how much they miss it 

sadly if we loose speedway again this year or in the next couple of years I cant see it ever coming back 

not the mess british speedway is in

 

[singy13]

9 minutes ago, scaramanga said:

sometimes for this to happen people need to loose it first to make them realise how much they miss it 

sadly if we loose speedway again this year or in the next couple of years I cant see it ever coming back 

not the mess british speedway is in

 

Sad to say it but you are right......the speedway product isn't as attractive in the UK as it was in those early times, both in 1970 and 1999....and I also think that the Grand Prix formula has had a bad effect on British speedway.....but that's going off the Derwent Park craic I guess, sorry.

[geoff100]

2 hours ago, John7 said:

The problem I feel is that the word trendy has a major part to play. A nation that is social media driven has to be keeping up apparences. Pictures are fabricated on social media to gain approval when most of the time events or activities look to be fantastic but are they really? . Also. Darts, boxing and horse racing are all popular sporting events at the present moment and they have two major factors in common alcohol and gambling!

 

I once took the  big red bus to ladies day at ascot as u say nothing but a load of piss heads never say a horse race all day just drank thats what we up against ,left 4 of them behind laughed all the way home .

[jenga]

3 hours ago, geoff100 said:

I once took the  big red bus to ladies day at ascot as u say nothing but a load of piss heads never say a horse race all day just drank thats what we up against ,left 4 of them behind laughed all the way home .

in the words of sugar, Alan that is ....................................... YOURE FIRED