Warsaw 2019

[g13webb]

2 hours ago, Trees said:

If we had these calibre of riders in every race maybe we would, come on now this is the World Championship, it should provide the best racing!

As like so often, you're missing the point.    If the track was prepared better, then the  racing would be much more enjoyable, regardless of the quality of the rider.  

A blind man would recognise that , even if those wearing tinted shades can't ….

 

NB.  I thought Robert Lambert did exceptionally well.    A future SGP star in the making , without a doubt......

 

Edited May 19, 2019 by g13webb

[waytogo28]

7 hours ago, Trees said:

If we had these calibre of riders in every race maybe we would, come on now this is the World Championship, it should provide the best racing!

However, after taking out Lambert R., Jason Doyle and Max Fricke the other riders are all much of a muchness so they should be able to race well against each other and provide similar racing and passing attributes ( not so quickly of course ) but I see so little eagerness from them to give chase. Not enough dosh or status on offer I suppose, to get them fired up and taking the risks.

[Mark]

1 hour ago, waytogo28 said:

However, after taking out Lambert R., Jason Doyle and Max Fricke the other riders are all much of a muchness so they should be able to race well against each other and provide similar racing and passing attributes ( not so quickly of course ) but I see so little eagerness from them to give chase. Not enough dosh or status on offer I suppose, to get them fired up and taking the risks.

What am I missing !     Lambert got to the semi final and Doyle had a broken rib.    

[Mark]

Tai's move on lap 1 in Heat 4 was brutal on Laguta.     Down firmly shut and Laguta given no room up the fence.    I'm a big fan of Woffinden but I hope not to hear any bleating if any other rider does something similar to him.

[mickthemuppet]

There has to be something wrong with a scoring system when Leon Madsen or anybody else can win a GP when he only won one race all night. The old individual world championship scoring system was far superior as it was a true test .Under the old 20 heat scoring Patrick Dudek would have been the winner and Leon Madsen only 8th

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited May 19, 2019 by mickthemuppet

[chunky]

8 minutes ago, mickthemuppet said:

There has to be something wrong with a scoring system when Leon Madsen or anybody else can win a GP when he only won one race all night. The old individual world championship scoring system was far superior as it was a true test .Under the old 20 heat scoring Patrick Dudek would have been the winner and Leon Madsen only 8th

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I don't agree with the system for determining the winner of an individual GP, but it comes down to the modern desire to have playoffs and finals for everything "in order to maintain interest".  However, the overall system for determining the World Champion is far superior to - and much fairer than - the old system. I'm just pleased that winning a GP doesn't count toward the overall championship.

Steve

[AFCB Wildcat]

20 minutes ago, mickthemuppet said:

There has to be something wrong with a scoring system when Leon Madsen or anybody else can win a GP when he only won one race all night. The old individual world championship scoring system was far superior as it was a true test .Under the old 20 heat scoring Patrick Dudek would have been the winner and Leon Madsen only 8th

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

But what did he actually win apart from a meaningless trophy?

He finished 4th in the points standings which is all that matters. I think the current system devalues winning the GP and personally preferred the old eliminator system with A & B finals where points were allocated to your finishing position. The current system favours consistency over the series rather than out & out winners.

Edited May 19, 2019 by AFCB Wildcat

[PHILIPRISING]

CONSISTENCY is the name of the game ... ask Mark Loram

[chunky]

4 minutes ago, PHILIPRISING said:

CONSISTENCY is the name of the game ... ask Mark Loram

My whole point; the overall system is a lot fairer, and minimises the luck aspect.  I just feel it is a strange way to determine the winner of an individual GP when you can achieve that by winning just one race!  As I have stated before, it would be possible for a rider to win every single GP - and not even finish in the Top 8 at the end of the season!  No, it will never happen, but yes, I have done the maths.

I see no reason to not adopt the standard 20-heat format, and forget about the semis and finals...  if you really want to keep the interest to the very last heat, you could just change the order of heats 17-20 to ensure that the leader (or at least one of the joint leaders) after heat 16 came out in the last race.

Steve

[Midland Red]

11 hours ago, Trees said:

If we had these calibre of riders in every race maybe we would, come on now this is the World Championship, it should provide the best racing!

It's not down entirely to the calibre of the riders, but the fact that they're all quite equal in terms of standard and ability

Sadly, in UK leagues, there's such a big disparity in standard and ability across the riders who fill the teams that the majority of races produce unexciting processions with a large distances between first and fourth

Because of the regular exposure to OOFC, customers now expect similar standards of competitiveness in each and every UK race meeting, something it is nigh on impossible to replicate

 

[racers and royals]

44 minutes ago, Midland Red said:

It's not down entirely to the calibre of the riders, but the fact that they're all quite equal in terms of standard and ability

Sadly, in UK leagues, there's such a big disparity in standard and ability across the riders who fill the teams that the majority of races produce unexciting processions with a large distances between first and fourth

Because of the regular exposure to OOFC, customers now expect similar standards of competitiveness in each and every UK race meeting, something it is nigh on impossible to replicate

 

Does that stand for out of flipping control ??

[OveFundinFan]

I thought it was an exciting  meeting. Last couple years Krsko was too early, riders not had a chance to settle into racing. This year starting later and at a good race track worked well. No one rider dominated, which was good.

interesting to see the detail of which bike riders were using. Highlighted which riders had there bikes sorted from the beginning. Think at least Tai tried 3 bikes, and not one of them was a winner.

There is excitement having top 8 into the semis and then final, but really good to see the cream racing each other. However it’s odd seeing someone win the trophy when it’s only their first win of the night. But it’s points at end of year that matter.

[PHILIPRISING]

THERE is, of course, the TV element. TV companies want a final race to determine the winner of each SGP rather than have the meeting lose steam at the end. 

[Garry1603]

1 hour ago, PHILIPRISING said:

THERE is, of course, the TV element. TV companies want a final race to determine the winner of each SGP rather than have the meeting lose steam at the end. 

At the end of the day, that's the crux of the matter. TV bosses these days want a finale to their sports events, whether it's an end of season Super Bowl, Champions League Final or whatever. If they get a Premier League going down to the last day, it's a bonus.

On a more event based basis, they want each GP to have a winner, so they can promote it for the next one, to try to attract viewers.

 

[waiheke1]

and as a viewer i enjoy the semi finals and final. it adds tension and excitement. no issue from my side with gp winner potentially being the 8th highest scorer, ultimately that's not important,  the main aim for riders getting the most points towards the title. i think current point system is perfect, would be very disapointed if they tinkered with it.

[chunky]

4 minutes ago, waiheke1 said:

and as a viewer i enjoy the semi finals and final. it adds tension and excitement. no issue from my side with gp winner potentially being the 8th highest scorer, ultimately that's not important,  the main aim for riders getting the most points towards the title. i think current point system is perfect, would be very disapointed if they tinkered with it.

As far as the overall points system, I agree 100%, and I really don't get how so many seem to think that the old system was "far superior"...

Steve

[Trees]

3 hours ago, Midland Red said:

It's not down entirely to the calibre of the riders, but the fact that they're all quite equal in terms of standard and ability

Sadly, in UK leagues, there's such a big disparity in standard and ability across the riders who fill the teams that the majority of races produce unexciting processions with a large distances between first and fourth

Because of the regular exposure to OOFC, customers now expect similar standards of competitiveness in each and every UK race meeting, something it is nigh on impossible to replicate

 

Yeah, bloody GP series has spoilt the fans and to some extent the riders ..... have thought that for many years .... Of course the riders in the GP series are all of a similar calibre ..... and of course British teams are made up of different calibre riders, but then it should be all about your team, your club not just individual riders.

[AFCB Wildcat]

1 hour ago, PHILIPRISING said:

THERE is, of course, the TV element. TV companies want a final race to determine the winner of each SGP rather than have the meeting lose steam at the end. 

Yes, absolutely that's the reason and also the reason for the playoffs in the Premiership of domestic speedway but in the playoffs it's winner takes all regardless of the points scored over the season. I do get that the GP format takes away the injustices that the playoffs sometimes produce and I don't have a major problem with it but I just think it devalues winning the individual events if the winner doesn't take maximum points from the event.

Also how often have we seen riders happy to follow the leader in the final as they have a sufficient buffer in the overall standings and only 1 extra point at stake to go for the win. I thought the double points final was at least some way of addressing this and rewarding the rider who won the final when the pressure was on.

 

[waiheke1]

1 hour ago, AFCB Wildcat said:

Yes, absolutely that's the reason and also the reason for the playoffs in the Premiership of domestic speedway but in the playoffs it's winner takes all regardless of the points scored over the season. I do get that the GP format takes away the injustices that the playoffs sometimes produce and I don't have a major problem with it but I just think it devalues winning the individual events if the winner doesn't take maximum points from the event.

Also how often have we seen riders happy to follow the leader in the final as they have a sufficient buffer in the overall standings and only 1 extra point at stake to go for the win. I thought the double points final was at least some way of addressing this and rewarding the rider who won the final when the pressure was on.

 

but the whole point is that winning an individual GP isnt the main thing - its an added incentive only. I'd much rather that than the alternative that someone winning all rides and failing in the final gets less points than someone who scrapes through to the semis but wins the final.

id also disagree that riders are happy to follow the leader in the final - id say that onlt happens if they have a close rival also in the final, coming behind them. Seem to recall Woffy pulling out a stunning from the back win in a final last year  and finals typically are hard fought affairs. 

[Col]

6 hours ago, chunky said:

it would be possible for a rider to win every single GP - and not even finish in the Top 8 at the end of the season!  No, it will never happen, but yes, I have done the maths.

11 points a round. 7 qualify + 2 semi + 3 final. Podium. Surely.