Poole 2019

[stevebrum]

2 minutes ago, Pinny said:

THJ in his peak performed a lot better than anything Berntzon or Nilsson etc has managed in Poland and Sweden.

even if you look at his GP results from 2015 - he may not of made a semi final but had plenty of 6 and 7’s which isnt too bad, and beat plenty of top riders along the way.

so what Col is saying is right - since Lindgren and Lindback , THJ is the best that Sweden have produced. 

Be interesting to see his averages from the main leagues during this time. I don’t ever remember his scoring being that impressive but happy to stand corrected. 

Sweden are in a poor state if THJ is the best thing since then! 

[Pinny]

7 minutes ago, stevebrum said:

Be interesting to see his averages from the main leagues during this time. I don’t ever remember his scoring being that impressive but happy to stand corrected. 

Sweden are in a poor state if THJ is the best thing since then! 

Havent looked but he was a regular high scorer in the top leagues in Poland and Sweden . 

 

[dontforgetthefueltapsbruv]

I see this as a heads you win tails you don't lose scenario

RR is too risky going into the play offs and whilst on the face of it THJ isn't an inspired signing he may well out do the negative predictions of many

Even if he disappoints again the loss against the alternative is minimal - worth the small gamble IMO

[foreverblue]

The point with THJ is that he may fail and only score 2 or 3 points a meeting or he could score 6 or 7  , is he worth the risk ? absolutely.

[foreverblue]

6 hours ago, Crumpet77 said:

It won't be hard to outscore Wells so it's a good move imo.

No true Wells should be replaced too. 

[ray c]

1 hour ago, foreverblue said:

No true Wells should be replaced too. 

I think covatti is the key .if nico don't score 6 plus at no 2 then we could be in trouble .like you say got to have a full side for the playoffs 

[arnieg]

10 hours ago, Pinny said:

THJ in his peak performed a lot better than anything Berntzon or Nilsson etc has managed in Poland and Sweden.

even if you look at his GP results from 2015 - he may not of made a semi final but had plenty of 6 and 7’s which isnt too bad, and beat plenty of top riders along the way.

so what Col is saying is right - since Lindgren and Lindback , THJ is the best that Sweden have produced. 

Peter Ljung also had a season in the GPs.  And if you exclude AJ, Freddie and Tonio he has been the top Swede in the Elitserien four times in the last five years. [Sundstrom was the best in 2017.]

BUT at 36 he is older than Lindback and Lindgren!

In both 2018 and 2019 Oliver Berntzon (age 26) has been the top averaged Swede under 30 in the Elitserien.

Edited August 28, 2019 by arnieg

[Col]

I like it when stats back me up.  Svemo official averages for the riders mentioned.

2013
46.    Tomas Jonasson    Elit Vetlanda    16    69    88    1,275
52.    Linus Sundström    Piraterna    9    39    47    1,205
54.    Kim Nilsson    Vargarna    14    59    70    1,186
62.    Jacob Thorssell         15    57    58    1,018
71.    Oliver Berntzon    Ikaros Smederna    16    55    45    0,818

2014
21.    Tomas Jonasson    Elit Vetlanda    18    79    131    1,658
37.    Kim Nilsson    Rospiggarna    18    81    119    1,469
39.    Jacob Thorssell    Elit Vetlanda    17    71    104    1,465
44.    Oliver Berntzon    Ikaros Smederna    15    64    88    1,375
53.    Linus Sundström    Piraterna    16    67    86    1,284

2015
33.    Tomas Jonasson    Elit Vetlanda    14    61    88    1,443
40.    Linus Sundström    Lejonen    12    59    76    1,288
46.    Jacob Thorssell    Elit Vetlanda    4    16    18    1,125
55.    Kim Nilsson    Rospiggarna    8    30    30    1,000

2016
26.    Jacob Thorssell    Rospiggarna    22    108    178    1,648
33.    Kim Nilsson    Masarna    14    59    86    1,458
36.    Linus Sundström    Masarna    13    60    86    1,433
58.    Tomas Jonasson    Elit Vetlanda    12    51    50    0,980
59.    Oliver Berntzon    Elit Vetlanda    12    47    46    0,979

2017
29.    Oliver Berntzon    Dackarna    18    83    125    1,506
32.    Kim Nilsson    Masarna    14    68    100    1,471
38.    Linus Sundström    Masarna    14    67    92    1,373
46.    Jacob Thorssell    Rospiggarna    16    63    80    1,270
53.    Tomas Jonasson    Vetlanda Speedway    16    74    76    1,027

So it's official, Tomas Jonasson was marginally better at his peak than Berntzon, Nilsson, Sundström & Thorsell!

[Pinny]

I thought the argument was since Lindback and Lindgren, who came on the scene around 2002, Sweden hadnt produced a better rider? 

THJ was a heavy scorer in Poland as well.

 

[arnieg]

26 minutes ago, Col said:

I like it when stats back me up.  Svemo official averages for the riders mentioned.

2013
46.    Tomas Jonasson    Elit Vetlanda    16    69    88    1,275
52.    Linus Sundström    Piraterna    9    39    47    1,205
54.    Kim Nilsson    Vargarna    14    59    70    1,186
62.    Jacob Thorssell         15    57    58    1,018
71.    Oliver Berntzon    Ikaros Smederna    16    55    45    0,818

2014
21.    Tomas Jonasson    Elit Vetlanda    18    79    131    1,658
37.    Kim Nilsson    Rospiggarna    18    81    119    1,469
39.    Jacob Thorssell    Elit Vetlanda    17    71    104    1,465
44.    Oliver Berntzon    Ikaros Smederna    15    64    88    1,375
53.    Linus Sundström    Piraterna    16    67    86    1,284

2015
33.    Tomas Jonasson    Elit Vetlanda    14    61    88    1,443
40.    Linus Sundström    Lejonen    12    59    76    1,288
46.    Jacob Thorssell    Elit Vetlanda    4    16    18    1,125
55.    Kim Nilsson    Rospiggarna    8    30    30    1,000

2016
26.    Jacob Thorssell    Rospiggarna    22    108    178    1,648
33.    Kim Nilsson    Masarna    14    59    86    1,458
36.    Linus Sundström    Masarna    13    60    86    1,433
58.    Tomas Jonasson    Elit Vetlanda    12    51    50    0,980
59.    Oliver Berntzon    Elit Vetlanda    12    47    46    0,979

2017
29.    Oliver Berntzon    Dackarna    18    83    125    1,506
32.    Kim Nilsson    Masarna    14    68    100    1,471
38.    Linus Sundström    Masarna    14    67    92    1,373
46.    Jacob Thorssell    Rospiggarna    16    63    80    1,270
53.    Tomas Jonasson    Vetlanda Speedway    16    74    76    1,027

So it's official, Tomas Jonasson was marginally better at his peak than Berntzon, Nilsson, Sundström & Thorsell!

Except you've conveniently overlooked Berntzon's 2018 stat of 1.753.

Overall these stats demonstrate that there is little in it between any of THJ, Thorrsell, Berntzon, Sundstrom and Nilsson, and that none of them has exactly made a sustained major impact ( and of course these figures do not take Into account performances outside Sweden.)

 

Edited August 28, 2019 by arnieg

[JCookie]

Always felt THJ would've been a real top rider but something just didn't seem right. Even though he did achieve GP status, I think he was never quite the same after his father's untimely death.

[Pinny]

Its a daft argument anyway as Jonasson is in a rapid decline . 

But since Lindback and Lindgren, he has been the best rider Sweden have produced taking into account his Swedish and Polish top flight scores. 

[Col]

29 minutes ago, arnieg said:

Except you've conveniently overlooked Berntzon's 2018 stat of 1.753.

I didn't bother going as far as 2018, admittedly!  The stats also fail to take into account whether the rider spent any time at reserve during the season.  Dunno if there is historical data for Ekstraliga.  I'll have a look later

[stevebrum]

26 minutes ago, arnieg said:

Except you've conveniently overlooked Berntzon's 2018 stat of 1.753.

Overall these stats demonstrate that there is little in it between any of THJ, Thorrsell, Berntzon, Sundstrom and Nilsson, and that none of them has exactly made a sustained major impact ( and of course these figures do not take Into account performances outside Sweden.)

 

Pretty much agree, Berntzon is definitely on the rise and can’t be far away from THJ stats wise if anyone has the Polish stats as proof.

What any stats prove is that there has been no decent Swedish rider on the world stage since Freddie and Antonio. 

Thorssell, Berntzon have done no worse on the GP stage than THJ.

 

[Pinny]

9 minutes ago, stevebrum said:

Pretty much agree, Berntzon is definitely on the rise and can’t be far away from THJ stats wise if anyone has the Polish stats as proof.

What any stats prove is that there has been no decent Swedish rider on the world stage since Freddie and Antonio. 

Thorssell, Berntzon have done no worse on the GP stage than THJ.

 

THJ over 14 GPs averaged just over 5 points a GP. Been much worse in the GPs over the last 20 or so years. 

Always been overated in the UK due to people thinking his overseas form would translate to the UK. 

 

[Col]

16 minutes ago, stevebrum said:

Thorssell, Berntzon have done no worse on the GP stage than THJ.

WRONG!  Jonasson has scored 11 points in a GP, 9 points in a GP and 8 points in a GP twice.  Berntzon's best GP tally is 7.  Thorsell's is 4.

GP averages:

Jonasson    90    103    4.58
Berntzon    15    12    3.20
Thorsell    15    7    1.87

[Skidder1]

On his last two UK league sessions, THJ was using borrowed machinery including the proverbial 'track spares'!

This time, with contracts at both Poole and Berwick in place til the end of the season, he is bringing his own bikes, van and mechanics as I understand it.

Having him at reserve for Poole is certainly a plus although not sure how he will do at the remaining league fixture tracks eg the Foxhole and Norfolk Arena as well as in the play-offs?

I'll be very interested to see how he goes at Birmingham tonight.

[Col]

PGE Ekstraliga Stats, again THJ is on top of the Swedes younger than Lindback & Lindgren

2012
37 Thomas H. JONASSON 1988 Gdańsk 1,659
2014
28 Thomas H. JONASSON Gdańsk 1,735
41 Linus SUNDSTROEM Gorzów 1,367
2015
39 Linus SUNDSTROEM Gorzów 1,359
40 Tomas H. JONASSON Leszno 1,351
2018
42. Linus SUNDSTROEM Gorzów 1,200
44. Jacob THORSSELL Zielona Góra 1,184

[Daniel Smith]

THJ 

Terrible signing

[stevebrum]

1 hour ago, Pinny said:

THJ over 14 GPs averaged just over 5 points a GP. Been much worse in the GPs over the last 20 or so years. 

Always been overated in the UK due to people thinking his overseas form would translate to the UK. 

 

Indeed very poor. Never got the preoccupation with some rating him.

1 hour ago, Col said:

WRONG!  Jonasson has scored 11 points in a GP, 9 points in a GP and 8 points in a GP twice.  Berntzon's best GP tally is 7.  Thorsell's is 4.

GP averages:

Jonasson    90    103    4.58
Berntzon    15    12    3.20
Thorsell    15    7    1.87

Good stats, which of course proves how hopeless those next generation riders are on the world stage.

1 hour ago, Col said:

PGE Ekstraliga Stats, again THJ is on top of the Swedes younger than Lindback & Lindgren

2012
37 Thomas H. JONASSON 1988 Gdańsk 1,659
2014
28 Thomas H. JONASSON Gdańsk 1,735
41 Linus SUNDSTROEM Gorzów 1,367
2015
39 Linus SUNDSTROEM Gorzów 1,359
40 Tomas H. JONASSON Leszno 1,351
2018
42. Linus SUNDSTROEM Gorzów 1,200
44. Jacob THORSSELL Zielona Góra 1,184

Good stats again, seems his career has been in free fall for 5 seasons.

Edited August 28, 2019 by stevebrum
Added detail