Edinburgh vs Lakeside SGB Championship 7th September, 2018, 7.30pm

[mac101]

1 hour ago, Endeavour said:

Is this on Facebook (don’t have it)

Yes 

[GS550]

15 hours ago, stewmac said:

In 42 years of following speedway weekly all I am saying is this. I think I can say what constitutes a good meeting. I pay my money and expect to watch 4 riders in each race giving it their all. Last night, for the first half of the meeting that was impossible for almost all the riders, and even for the rest of the meeting, several, including both the home captain, Riss, as well as the home number one, Wells, looked like they were being distinctly tentative, and for me there was zero entertainment.

That's not speedway. That's farcical. It won't attract any new fans. And when even some of your own team end up injured as a result of this "mistake" as Blobby calls it, then it's high time to take a step back and look at the bigger picture. 

Trick track?

[tyretrax]

40 minutes ago, BigBoaby said:

Trick track?

I wouldn't call it a trick track but a tricky track, it's a technical track which requires a rider to use his head as well as the throttle.

[gmuncie]

I normally avoid posting on this forum these days due to the incessant nonsense that is posted continuously by some and this thread is no different to that ( nice to see Ian and George now they have been replaced as main photographers in the West by the excellent young Taylor chipping in having not been in attendance) 

However a few things to clear up from last night 

1- yes the track was prepared with too much grip on it at the start of the meeting that can not be denied however this was not intentional but a misreading of the conditions

2 these conditions were not directly involved in the cause of the monarchs injuries, I will concede that they were the indirect cause of Joel’s as he slid off due to the difficulty in turning in heat 2 but it was the fact he got hit by Zach W that caused his injury (zero fault of Zach’s btw), victor’s fall he gated level with the two hammers tried to throttle off to move inside then realised he was to far into the corner throttled back on and the bike took off on him causing him to bail out.

3 if the track was so bad and no one was attacking it then why was there a sub 55 second time and multiple sub 56 second times all within 2.5 seconds or so of the track record 

4 the delay caused by Joel’s injury allowed track grading to be done and from there on in the track was perfectly rideable and the riders that attacked it got their rewards.Including Lakeside riders, haven spoken to 5 of the riders involved in the meeting last night (2 Edinburgh and 3 Lakeside) they all said the same, the track was difficult to start with but was more than raceable a season the meeting progressed.

5 At no point did Erik say the track was ‘very dangerous’ he said it was to grippy to start with which was dangerous as mentioned above this was alleviated by the re-run of heat 2 though 

I’m not saying last night was a good meeting as it was pretty poor all told but this was not down exclusively to the track conditions.

it takes 2 teams to make a good meeting and increasingly over the last few weeks awaybteams appear to be defeated by their attitude before a wheel is turned. 

It strikes me it’s never the monarchs that come away from a meeting home or away complaining win lose or draw we have guys that go everywhere and get on with it, other teams could do with a bit of the same not to mention the fact that the makeup of our team since the introduction of Richie and Victor we basically have a top 5 who are all heatleader calibre at the Dale that is why we are turning teams over. 

 

[Fromafar]

23 minutes ago, gmuncie said:

I normally avoid posting on this forum these days due to the incessant nonsense that is posted continuously by some and this thread is no different to that ( nice to see Ian and George now they have been replaced as main photographers in the West by the excellent young Taylor chipping in having not been in attendance) 

However a few things to clear up from last night 

1- yes the track was prepared with too much grip on it at the start of the meeting that can not be denied however this was not intentional but a misreading of the conditions

2 these conditions were not directly involved in the cause of the monarchs injuries, I will concede that they were the indirect cause of Joel’s as he slid off due to the difficulty in turning in heat 2 but it was the fact he got hit by Zach W that caused his injury (zero fault of Zach’s btw), victor’s fall he gated level with the two hammers tried to throttle off to move inside then realised he was to far into the corner throttled back on and the bike took off on him causing him to bail out.

3 if the track was so bad and no one was attacking it then why was there a sub 55 second time and multiple sub 56 second times all within 2.5 seconds or so of the track record 

4 the delay caused by Joel’s injury allowed track grading to be done and from there on in the track was perfectly rideable and the riders that attacked it got their rewards.Including Lakeside riders, haven spoken to 5 of the riders involved in the meeting last night (2 Edinburgh and 3 Lakeside) they all said the same, the track was difficult to start with but was more than raceable a season the meeting progressed.

5 At no point did Erik say the track was ‘very dangerous’ he said it was to grippy to start with which was dangerous as mentioned above this was alleviated by the re-run of heat 2 though 

I’m not saying last night was a good meeting as it was pretty poor all told but this was not down exclusively to the track conditions.

it takes 2 teams to make a good meeting and increasingly over the last few weeks awaybteams appear to be defeated by their attitude before a wheel is turned. 

It strikes me it’s never the monarchs that come away from a meeting home or away complaining win lose or draw we have guys that go everywhere and get on with it, other teams could do with a bit of the same not to mention the fact that the makeup of our team since the introduction of Richie and Victor we basically have a top 5 who are all heatleader calibre at the Dale that is why we are turning teams over. 

 

The inability of a lot of riders to adapt to track conditions are the main cause of the problems these days.They walk the track before meeting kick their heels in have a chat with their Team mates then do nothing to their bikes to suit conditions.Total waste of time for many of them.

[SharpenRake]

7 hours ago, gmuncie said:

I normally avoid posting on this forum these days due to the incessant nonsense that is posted continuously by some and this thread is no different to that ( nice to see Ian and George now they have been replaced as main photographers in the West by the excellent young Taylor chipping in having not been in attendance) 

However a few things to clear up from last night 

1- yes the track was prepared with too much grip on it at the start of the meeting that can not be denied however this was not intentional but a misreading of the conditions

2 these conditions were not directly involved in the cause of the monarchs injuries, I will concede that they were the indirect cause of Joel’s as he slid off due to the difficulty in turning in heat 2 but it was the fact he got hit by Zach W that caused his injury (zero fault of Zach’s btw), victor’s fall he gated level with the two hammers tried to throttle off to move inside then realised he was to far into the corner throttled back on and the bike took off on him causing him to bail out.

3 if the track was so bad and no one was attacking it then why was there a sub 55 second time and multiple sub 56 second times all within 2.5 seconds or so of the track record 

4 the delay caused by Joel’s injury allowed track grading to be done and from there on in the track was perfectly rideable and the riders that attacked it got their rewards.Including Lakeside riders, haven spoken to 5 of the riders involved in the meeting last night (2 Edinburgh and 3 Lakeside) they all said the same, the track was difficult to start with but was more than raceable a season the meeting progressed.

5 At no point did Erik say the track was ‘very dangerous’ he said it was to grippy to start with which was dangerous as mentioned above this was alleviated by the re-run of heat 2 though 

I’m not saying last night was a good meeting as it was pretty poor all told but this was not down exclusively to the track conditions.

it takes 2 teams to make a good meeting and increasingly over the last few weeks awaybteams appear to be defeated by their attitude before a wheel is turned. 

It strikes me it’s never the monarchs that come away from a meeting home or away complaining win lose or draw we have guys that go everywhere and get on with it, other teams could do with a bit of the same not to mention the fact that the makeup of our team since the introduction of Richie and Victor we basically have a top 5 who are all heatleader calibre at the Dale that is why we are turning teams over. 

 

Now that I've read this I'm happy (lol) apart from the bit about George and snapper. Youll be saying next that your a star of the radio 

[stewmac]

8 hours ago, gmuncie said:

However a few things to clear up from last night 

4 the delay caused by Joel’s injury (in heat 2 - note these three words added by Stewmac) allowed track grading to be done and from there on in the track was perfectly rideable 

5 At no point did Erik say the track was ‘very dangerous’ he said it was to grippy to start with which was dangerous as mentioned above this was alleviated by the re-run of heat 2 though 

I’m not saying last night was a good meeting as it was pretty poor all told but this was not down exclusively to the track conditions.

Gmuncie has tried to clarify things and he has done an admirable job, except for a couple of things which I am about to point out, and others on the forum can judge for themselves who to believe.

 In his point number 4 above he claims that remedial work done in the delay as Joel Andersson was attended to in heat 2 alleviated the situation to the point that the track was perfectly "rideable". All I'd say to that is yes, it was rideable but what followed proved to every single person who was in the stadium that it was hardly raceable and certainly not by all 13 riders who were there.

He then disputes that Erik Riss stated publicly on the mic that the track conditions were dangerous and tries again to claim that the work done in heat 2 fixed things. One problem with that. What Erik actually said (during a delay between heat 7 or 8 taking place) was this: "The track is too grippy tonight, even for me. It's dangerous when it's this grippy."

Erik didn't take his first ride until heat 4, which was two races after gMuncie claims the work done on the track fixed things. Any reasonably intelligent person can, I'm sure, work out what the implications of that are. Riss stated it was too grippy even for him, and he didn't even appear until heat 4.

Something doesn't add up there. I'd suggest gmuncie has got confused. Maybe he's been listening to too many politicians who like to bend the truth a little to suit their own agendas. Maybe he's trying to convince folk what has already has been stated in the thread is lies. The easy way to prove it would be if there is a video recording of what Erik said available and he can put it up for everyone to decide. Meantime, I know what I heard. So will everyone else who was in the stadium listening. 

Edited September 9, 2018 by stewmac

[gmuncie]

31 minutes ago, SharpenRake said:

Now that I've read this I'm happy (lol) apart from the bit about George and snapper. Youll be saying next that your a star of the radio 

I would never dare say that, I just nip into a studio and blether about speedway for an hour every week. There’s no illusions of stardom haha 

[Mr Blobby]

38 minutes ago, stewmac said:

Gmuncie has tried to clarify things and he has done an admirable job, except for a couple of things which I am about to point out, and others on the forum can judge for themselves who to believe.

 In his point number 4 above he claims that remedial work done in the delay as Joel Andersson was attended to in heat 2 alleviated the situation to the point that the track was perfectly "rideable". All I'd say to that is yes, it was rideable but what followed proved to every single person who was in the stadium that it was hardly raceable and certainly not by all 13 riders who were there.

He then disputes that Erik Riss stated publicly on the mic that the track conditions were dangerous and tries again to claim that the work done in heat 2 fixed things. One problem with that. What Erik actually said (during a delay between heat 7 or 8 taking place) was this: "The track is too grippy tonight, even for me. It's dangerous when it's this grippy."

Erik didn't take his first ride until heat 4, which was two races after gMuncie claims the work done on the track fixed things. Any reasonably intelligent person can, I'm sure, work out what the implications of that are. Riss stated it was too grippy even for him, and he didn't even appear until heat 4.

Something doesn't add up there. I'd suggest gmuncie has got confused. Maybe he's been listening to too many politicians who like to bend the truth a little to suit their own agendas. Maybe he's trying to convince folk what has already has been stated in the thread is lies. The easy way to prove it would be if there is a video recording of what Erik said available and he can put it up for everyone to decide. Meantime, I know what I heard. So will everyone else who was in the stadium listening. 

Suit their own agendas you have said, yet you’ve twisted Eriks words, he never once said it was very dangerous he said when it is that grippy it can be dangerous. You also failed to mention the part of the interview where he was struggling on track due to being exhausted from travelling and riding for 6 days in a row. 

So I’m siding with mr muncie on this one thanks 

 

Edited September 9, 2018 by Mr Blobby

[GS550]

8 hours ago, gmuncie said:

 

if the track was so bad and no one was attacking it then why was there a sub 55 second time and multiple sub 56 second times all within 2.5 seconds of the track record

 

Er, because its so tiny??

The riders always appear to come to a standstill on the apex of the bends, its a slow track so if the riders were going at any real speed the track times would be about 20 seconds cos its such a tiny tiny track, not really "speed"way is it 

[Mr Blobby]

1 minute ago, BigBoaby said:

Er, because its so tiny??

The riders always appear to come to a standstill on the apex of the bends, its a slow track so if the riders were going at any real speed the track times would be about 20 seconds cos its such a tiny tiny track, not really "speed"way is it 

Er, you’ve completely missed the point he’s making. 

Basically he’s saying if the track was as bad as some have made out the times would be a lot slower when they were either slightly quicker or the same as any other night.

[GS550]

8 hours ago, gmuncie said:

not to mention the fact that the makeup of our team since the introduction of Richie and Victor we basically have a top 5 who are all heatleader calibre at the Dale that is why we are turning teams over. 

 

Cos you now have a couple of Glasgow riders??

[GS550]

4 minutes ago, Mr Blobby said:

Er, you’ve completely missed the point he’s making. 

Basically he’s saying if the track was as bad as some have made out the times would be a lot slower when they were either slightly quicker or the same as any other night.

Lighten up mate   

[stewmac]

8 minutes ago, Mr Blobby said:

Er, you’ve completely missed the point he’s making. 

Basically he’s saying if the track was as bad as some have made out the times would be a lot slower when they were either slightly quicker or the same as any other night.

Tracks are always faster when they are prepared grippily. That's basic science my friend. But they have to be rideable by all.

I guess we all have our own opinions on this, but we are all speedway fans who want our own team to win.

The question we all have to answer though is this: 

Do we want to see our team win on

1) a track that is fair to all, that produces entertaining and close racing or 

2) a track that allows only the home riders to know how to race on it, producing processional, strung out races and no entertainment 

??

If you answer anything other than the first answer, then I think you are part and parcel of the problem of the way speedway is going down the tubes. Please, think about it...

Edited September 9, 2018 by stewmac

[TheScotsman]

Must be a very slow news weekend if this is still rolling on. 

[GS550]

6 minutes ago, TheScotsman said:

Must be a very slow news weekend if this is still rolling on. 

Is it?

[Bagpuss]

I have an element of sympathy with Edinburgh here, track prep in speedway can be affected by even the slightest change in weather / temperature and just an extra lap of the water bowser can lead to issues. As a Lynn supporter I’ve seen umpteen grippy tracks over the years and a handful of dangerous ones along the way as the risk factor is much higher with more grip, and even more so on a tight circuit like Armadale. Buster has been hammered for his prep on these occasions and perhaps the Monarchs hierarchy need to take their medicine in this instance         as unintentional and accidental as it may have been.

The other question is do the club want trophies or proper speedway racing? Or perhaps to try and achieve both. Mega grip where all fourteen riders are unable to give their all is no good for anyone, 60+ scores for the rest of the season might win things but are people really going to get their money’s worth from that? I’d have thought a middle ground would be best all round. 

[sparks123]

10 hours ago, gmuncie said:

I normally avoid posting on this forum these days due to the incessant nonsense that is posted continuously by some and this thread is no different to that ( nice to see Ian and George now they have been replaced as main photographers in the West by the excellent young Taylor chipping in having not been in attendance) 

However a few things to clear up from last night 

1- yes the track was prepared with too much grip on it at the start of the meeting that can not be denied however this was not intentional but a misreading of the conditions

2 these conditions were not directly involved in the cause of the monarchs injuries, I will concede that they were the indirect cause of Joel’s as he slid off due to the difficulty in turning in heat 2 but it was the fact he got hit by Zach W that caused his injury (zero fault of Zach’s btw), victor’s fall he gated level with the two hammers tried to throttle off to move inside then realised he was to far into the corner throttled back on and the bike took off on him causing him to bail out.

3 if the track was so bad and no one was attacking it then why was there a sub 55 second time and multiple sub 56 second times all within 2.5 seconds or so of the track record 

4 the delay caused by Joel’s injury allowed track grading to be done and from there on in the track was perfectly rideable and the riders that attacked it got their rewards.Including Lakeside riders, haven spoken to 5 of the riders involved in the meeting last night (2 Edinburgh and 3 Lakeside) they all said the same, the track was difficult to start with but was more than raceable a season the meeting progressed.

5 At no point did Erik say the track was ‘very dangerous’ he said it was to grippy to start with which was dangerous as mentioned above this was alleviated by the re-run of heat 2 though 

I’m not saying last night was a good meeting as it was pretty poor all told but this was not down exclusively to the track conditions.

it takes 2 teams to make a good meeting and increasingly over the last few weeks awaybteams appear to be defeated by their attitude before a wheel is turned. 

It strikes me it’s never the monarchs that come away from a meeting home or away complaining win lose or draw we have guys that go everywhere and get on with it, other teams could do with a bit of the same not to mention the fact that the makeup of our team since the introduction of Richie and Victor we basically have a top 5 who are all heatleader calibre at the Dale that is why we are turning teams over. 

 

Have you never complained about the Berwick track?  Did you not report about Ricky Wells after Berwick winning earlier in the season.  I could probably look back and see.

Seem to recall Berwick just getting on with it at Armadale when most thought it was dodgy starting (didn't think there was much difference between that night and the night at Berwick at the start of the season which was off).  Berwick also just got on with it at Ipswich so I assume Berwick are not one of the teams that "could do with a bit of the same".

I recall when Craig broke the Berwick track record it was to grippy also.

[SunnyLeith]

You’ve got to admire the number of opinions from the Weegie track police to an Edinburgh v Lakeside thread. All made from 25 miles distant and 20/20 vision.

 

[Taylorj]

The sooner the Bull Dozers come in , flatten it and build houses on it the better ...preparing a dangerous track , losing two of their own riders in doing so, and paying £18 to watch it !