redlead Posted August 30, 2018 Report Share Posted August 30, 2018 Looking through the list of riders in the Premiership, only around 12 are full time PL riders, the rest are double up riders. Shows how far the standard has dropped, not long ago, top div 2 riders were promoted to reserves in div 1. Also means the running just one league would be just about impossible as there won't be enough riders to fill 20 teams. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grachan Posted August 30, 2018 Report Share Posted August 30, 2018 It's a two way thing. Yes, the top flight is weaker these days, but the lower flight is also getting way above its own station and seems to be trying to set itself up as a competitor to the top flight by bringing in international standard riders. It's not all "doubling up". There are riders like Nick Morris, Craig Cook etc who could never be seen as doubling-up riders and should not be riding in the lower flight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ouch Posted August 30, 2018 Report Share Posted August 30, 2018 Leicester ‘s team total for September is 37.62, multiply that by the PL/CL conversion rate and it gives a CL total of 48.91. The highest current CL team is Edinburgh with a total of 45.64 so not much in it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel Smith Posted August 30, 2018 Report Share Posted August 30, 2018 58 minutes ago, Grachan said: It's a two way thing. Yes, the top flight is weaker these days, but the lower flight is also getting way above its own station and seems to be trying to set itself up as a competitor to the top flight by bringing in international standard riders. It's not all "doubling up". There are riders like Nick Morris, Craig Cook etc who could never be seen as doubling-up riders and should not be riding in the lower flight. Rory Schlein, Craig Cook, Chris Harris, Scott Nicholls, Danny King, Nick Morris, Nicoli Klindt, Stevie Worrall and now, probably Dan Bewley in 2019. These guys are doubling down rather than up. These rider's in theory are way above the Championship level. In saying that, I'll always believe that rider's that don't compete on the continent should be allowed to ride both British divisions. More than the Premiership getting weaker, it's more the Championship getting stronger. The better rider's in the 2nd tier continue at that level so it doesn't cut off an income if things don't go to plan abroad, i.e Craig Cook. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IronScorpion Posted August 30, 2018 Report Share Posted August 30, 2018 It seems it is close to 2 riders. In the premiership, they have 1 top rider & in the Championship they have a NL rider( some have 2). Otherwise, most teams have 5 or 6 riders that are or have doubled up/down this year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grachan Posted August 30, 2018 Report Share Posted August 30, 2018 (edited) 8 minutes ago, IronScorpion said: It seems it is close to 2 riders. In the premiership, they have 1 top rider & in the Championship they have a NL rider( some have 2). Otherwise, most teams have 5 or 6 riders that are or have doubled up/down this year. At the start of last year, it worked out that if Swindon had replaced Jason Doyle with a NL rider at the start of the year, then they would have been a Championship strength side. Edited August 30, 2018 by Grachan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barrow Boy 2 Posted August 30, 2018 Report Share Posted August 30, 2018 5 hours ago, redlead said: Looking through the list of riders in the Premiership, only around 12 are full time PL riders, the rest are double up riders. Shows how far the standard has dropped, not long ago, top div 2 riders were promoted to reserves in div 1. Also means the running just one league would be just about impossible as there won't be enough riders to fill 20 teams. There are currently 18 teams running in the top 2 divisions which if the all ran in 2019, 126 riders are required to fill them. It is however quite likely that not all will continue but if they do then there will be a shortage of 35 riders based on all those currently riding. If however teams comprise of just 6 riders then there will be a shortage of just 18 which can be covered by more overseas riders being attracted to join and or by using the top National League riders as reserves. It is possible to use the existing 15 heat format for 6 man teams because it is done now when teams use rider replacement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel Smith Posted August 30, 2018 Report Share Posted August 30, 2018 35 minutes ago, Barrow Boy 2 said: There are currently 18 teams running in the top 2 divisions which if the all ran in 2019, 126 riders are required to fill them. It is however quite likely that not all will continue but if they do then there will be a shortage of 35 riders based on all those currently riding. If however teams comprise of just 6 riders then there will be a shortage of just 18 which can be covered by more overseas riders being attracted to join and or by using the top National League riders as reserves. It is possible to use the existing 15 heat format for 6 man teams because it is done now when teams use rider replacement. 15 heats, heats 14 and 15 nominated races. Top 2 in the averages can't ride heat 14, bottom 2 in the averages can't ride heat 15. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IronScorpion Posted August 30, 2018 Report Share Posted August 30, 2018 1 hour ago, Daniel Smith said: 15 heats, heats 14 and 15 nominated races. Top 2 in the averages can't ride heat 14, bottom 2 in the averages can't ride heat 15. ??????????????????? Heats 13 & 14 are nominated, heat 15 is top scorerers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IronScorpion Posted August 30, 2018 Report Share Posted August 30, 2018 I have not fully read the SS but going by what has been said about FNR, surely if 7 or 8 teams come to tapes in 2019 then 1 league riding on Monday only( to avoid Danish leagues) leaving Championship to ride thur, fri, sat & sun riding once only. This makes Rye House possible to ride CL on Saturdays. There is also the issue of what is happening to lakeside or other teams moving up from NL to CL & if possible teams from CL to PL. Eastbourne & Kent come in to these categories. The likes of Rye House moving to Saturdays in the CL is what I would think is the norm but we need teams to move up to the PL for TV rights to make the 8 teams. Riding on Mondays twice avoiding Denmark but similar to Poland takes away some riders in two leagues bue making a larger PL riding home & away just the once. Other teams making up the CL could be Birmingham & Eastbourne making the PL about 7 or 8 teams & the CL about 13 or 14. This will also help in rider availability. We would just need to make a rule for British riders per team whether 3 or 4. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barrow Boy 2 Posted August 31, 2018 Report Share Posted August 31, 2018 11 hours ago, IronScorpion said: I have not fully read the SS but going by what has been said about FNR, surely if 7 or 8 teams come to tapes in 2019 then 1 league riding on Monday only( to avoid Danish leagues) leaving Championship to ride thur, fri, sat & sun riding once only. This makes Rye House possible to ride CL on Saturdays. There is also the issue of what is happening to lakeside or other teams moving up from NL to CL & if possible teams from CL to PL. Eastbourne & Kent come in to these categories. The likes of Rye House moving to Saturdays in the CL is what I would think is the norm but we need teams to move up to the PL for TV rights to make the 8 teams. Riding on Mondays twice avoiding Denmark but similar to Poland takes away some riders in two leagues bue making a larger PL riding home & away just the once. Other teams making up the CL could be Birmingham & Eastbourne making the PL about 7 or 8 teams & the CL about 13 or 14. This will also help in rider availability. We would just need to make a rule for British riders per team whether 3 or 4. 8 teams is not enough. There has to be more variety. The same teams keep riding each other and it becomes monotonous. Be nice to see different teams bringing more away fans. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waytogo28 Posted August 31, 2018 Report Share Posted August 31, 2018 There is little or no difference between them except they do not ride against each other. The two leagues of 14 teams mooted for 2019 should improve things for existing fans but of course, will not pull in new ones. Hopefully with no doubling down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IainB Posted August 31, 2018 Report Share Posted August 31, 2018 (edited) On the face of it there's not much difference but then look back at last year's relegation play off and there's your answer Edited August 31, 2018 by iainb 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Byker Biker Posted August 31, 2018 Report Share Posted August 31, 2018 On 8/30/2018 at 11:56 AM, redlead said: Looking through the list of riders in the Premiership, only around 12 are full time PL riders, the rest are double up riders. Shows how far the standard has dropped, not long ago, top div 2 riders were promoted to reserves in div 1. Also means the running just one league would be just about impossible as there won't be enough riders to fill 20 teams. What's the difference? Between 2 and 4 quid on the gate, that's all! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aces51 Posted September 1, 2018 Report Share Posted September 1, 2018 Of course there's a difference. Many of the riders may be the same but if you use CL averages, either real or converted using the 1.3 factor for those riders who have only a PL average, then a CL team building limit of 42.50 equates to 55.25 in the PL or if you want to do it the other way round a PL team building limit of 42.5 is 32.7 in the CL. By way of example, Belle Vue effectively have what would be 5 CL heat leaders and 2 CL second strings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveLyric2 Posted September 1, 2018 Report Share Posted September 1, 2018 12 hours ago, Byker Biker said: What's the difference? Between 2 and 4 quid on the gate, that's all! ...or 1 or 2 quid in some cases. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Shovlar Posted September 1, 2018 Report Share Posted September 1, 2018 What must be avoided at all costs is further dumbing down to the lowest common denominator. Every year the leagues get weaker. Whats for next year? Pandering to a team in the CL who gets 300 gates? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foamfence Posted September 1, 2018 Report Share Posted September 1, 2018 50 minutes ago, Steve Shovlar said: What must be avoided at all costs is further dumbing down to the lowest common denominator. Every year the leagues get weaker. Whats for next year? Pandering to a team in the CL who gets 300 gates? "Dumbing down" is certain for next year, the plan being to have ten Premiership sides at about the Current Championship level and a Much reduced Championship average, with probably three national league sides moving up. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dontforgetthefueltapsbruv Posted September 1, 2018 Report Share Posted September 1, 2018 4 hours ago, Steve Shovlar said: What must be avoided at all costs is further dumbing down to the lowest common denominator. Every year the leagues get weaker. Whats for next year? Pandering to a team in the CL who gets 300 gates? What if the cost was Poole closing? Although I do tend to agree - need 3 or 4 of the better supported Championship sides to join the top league and a 2nd tier at a much reduced limit to enable those with 300 - 500 attending to be more sustainable as well as re-establishing a true differential The longer term aim should be to strengthen the top tier if finances can be developed (league sponsor/TV) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Racin Jason 72 Posted September 1, 2018 Report Share Posted September 1, 2018 Well I hope Ipswich stay in the championship. Don’t want to return to the top flight personally Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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