Belle Vue v Somerset PL 5th September, 2018

[IainB]

14 hours ago, Steve0 said:

Hadn’t noticed - thanks.  I will still go for KL v Somerset final 

I hope Puk's Danish club aren't riding!

12 hours ago, Stoke Potter said:

Yes really.  We've both discussed this before on here more than once.  It's about attracting the layman. 
I defy anybody not to be at least slightly impressed with that Heat 13 last night, the spectacle of the sheer speed combined with the close proximity of the riders is a sight to behold.  Fricke must've been nudging 70+mph at times in that race.
It's not quite the same watching 4 riders pootle round the Plymouth merry-go-round at 40-50mph tops, whether the lead changes several times or not.

You are a seasoned fan and can appreciate it, fair enough but no way can you say what you saw at Plymouth bettered or even matched that at Belle Vue last night.

Lakeside is an utterly dire trick-track, the same as Wolves and the rules should be changed so that no new track can be made like that.

You can argue until the cows come home about what is a good race and where but for me the stakes also have to be taken into consideration, Fricke and BV were fighting to secure a play off place, you could have a cracking race early season with not a lot at stake (in terms of winning) and think yes it was good but will it linger in the memory.

Is it coincidence that at the end of the season when the stakes are higher we generally seem to see better races? Are the riders putting extra effort in while going through the motions earlier in the season? Are we just more engaged as fans? Maybe a bit of both

[Aces51]

27 minutes ago, Steve Shovlar said:

It doesn’t help when two of the 4 semi finalists are doctoring their track to give extra home advantage. Somerset are making it one line for their riders, proved by the last two meetings, and Kings Lynn are making the track ultra grippy, proved by the meetings against Poole and Leicester.

While there is nothing illegal about doing this, it takes away exciting racing. A grippy track makes racing very fast and spread out. A one line track means if you don’t get bullied off the inside line you win. Neither are conducive to exciting, thrilling racing the fans and BT demand.

Fans could argue that if Somerset make the track an inside line only, then Poole should gate and sit on the inside. Easier said than done. The Somerset riders will have their setups sorted out of the gate.

Same goes for Lynn. Whilst Iversen doesn’t like grippy tracks, making it grippy helps their riders at the bottom end.  Simon Lambert said he wished it was ultra grippy every week.

Unlike Poole who relied for a number of years on their riders knowing where the holes were to give them an advantage. 

[Starman2006]

16 minutes ago, Bagpuss said:

It’s a difficult one, teams will always want their home track prepared ow their own riders like it best because to a point home wins mean bigger crowds, particularly when it could be the difference between a Play Off final and therefore a bumper crowd and big gate receipts. But we don’t want it to be to the detriment of the racing too much. But then what would Lynn punters demand for example, great racing with a 46-44 win or a mega grippy track which provides two or three good races and a 55-35 score line? Same with Somerset and their inside line or Poole and their uneven surface?

Belle Vue are in a great position as their riders seem to prefer their track to be prepared so there are multiple racing lines, same with Scunthorpe in the second division. But I’d have thought at this stage of the season a winning team leading to big crowds and a good atmosphere would be the most important thing, however short sighted that may be for some.

How do you know our track is uneven, you walked it ?

[Starman2006]

1 hour ago, hyderd said:

It certainly did SS, but the sport needs those races now.

It does, and you wont see much better than that. Thats why i called them the Telepathic Turbo twins... But, sadly we will never see the like of them again.

[Starman2006]

12 hours ago, Stoke Potter said:

I go regular but not often.  They aren't BV width was my point. 
Poole would benefit from more width all round but I heard the Southerners do tend to lack girth 

I always get the impression that the back straight is narrower then the home straight, is it?

Yep you are right, the length is fine just needs to be a bit wider all round, track,,. No the back straight is not narrower than the home straight, it just gives that impression due to the close proximity of the glass stand.

[Starman2006]

12 hours ago, nw42 said:

I've dug that race out on you tube loads of times, it was incredibly exciting at the time, reminds me what a racer Havvy was, Keith Millard's (RIP) pronunciation of "darncing" still gets me.  Thanks for posting, evokes a great memory.

As for being better than last night's heat 13, definitely close but the way Fricke built up the speed and clawed them back was a sight to behold, both great races and sum up why we all keep watching our beloved sport.

Yup thats what the fans go to see, and thats the type of racing our track can produce. I'l leave it at that...

[hyderd]

9 minutes ago, Starman2006 said:

It does, and you wont see much better than that. Thats why i called them the Telepathic Turbo twins... But, sadly we will never see the like of them again.

The point I as making was the track, brilliant racing back then, sadly not now.

[Bagpuss]

28 minutes ago, Starman2006 said:

How do you know our track is uneven, you walked it ?

 People don’t need to walk your track, any video of a race from Poole shows riders back wheels jumping around in the corners. Mr Shovlar recently added one from Wednesday night and good race though it was it clearly shows an uneven and bare (maybe with a blue groove?) inside line.

Nobody will ever convince me that a track with lumps, bumps and holes has been prepared in the best way. The smoother the better for me as it gives riders the ultimate confidence to throw their bikes at each other, just like Belle Vue the other night. Uneven tracks will make away riders tentative and play into home riders hands who know where the obstacles are.

[Daniel Smith]

1 hour ago, Starman2006 said:

How do you know our track is uneven, you walked it ?

You just have to see recordings of races, no need to walk the track

 

[Halifaxtiger]

5 hours ago, Steve Shovlar said:

It doesn’t help when two of the 4 semi finalists are doctoring their track to give extra home advantage. Somerset are making it one line for their riders, proved by the last two meetings, and Kings Lynn are making the track ultra grippy, proved by the meetings against Poole and Leicester.

While there is nothing illegal about doing this, it takes away exciting racing. A grippy track makes racing very fast and spread out. A one line track means if you don’t get bullied off the inside line you win. Neither are conducive to exciting, thrilling racing the fans and BT demand.

Fans could argue that if Somerset make the track an inside line only, then Poole should gate and sit on the inside. Easier said than done. The Somerset riders will have their setups sorted out of the gate.

Same goes for Lynn. Whilst Iversen doesn’t like grippy tracks, making it grippy helps their riders at the bottom end.  Simon Lambert said he wished it was ultra grippy every week.

Somerset certainly wasn't doctored when I went to watch Belle Vue there the other week even though they had every reason to do it. In fact it was quite superb as this race proves :

 

18 hours ago, Stoke Potter said:

Yes really.  We've both discussed this before on here more than once.  It's about attracting the layman. 
I defy anybody not to be at least slightly impressed with that Heat 13 last night, the spectacle of the sheer speed combined with the close proximity of the riders is a sight to behold.  Fricke must've been nudging 70+mph at times in that race.
It's not quite the same watching 4 riders pootle round the Plymouth merry-go-round at 40-50mph tops, whether the lead changes several times or not.

You are a seasoned fan and can appreciate it, fair enough but no way can you say what you saw at Plymouth bettered or even matched that at Belle Vue last night.

Lakeside is an utterly dire trick-track, the same as Wolves and the rules should be changed so that no new track can be made like that.

 

I defy anyone not to be impressed, too.   

 

However, given that I saw both  and you did not, I am the only one of us qualified to give a judgement on any comparison.

 

Belle Vue was better but the one at Plymouth wasn't far behind and I'd point out that while you had the World Champion, a GP star and two of world's best young riders in one of the races in the other there were 2 riders who haven't even ridden Championship speedway, never mind Premiership. 

 

I am seriously suspecting you have never been to Plymouth, because no--one who has would ever use that word about the speedway there. For a start, because the track is much smaller the speeds seem faster. Secondly, you very rarely get the riders spaced out (Workington and Isle of Wight are two of my favourite destinations but that happens a lot at both places, simply because of the size) so the possibility of racing and the closeness of the riders is greater. Finally, the first turns are unlike anywhere else in the country. Because the run is so short, the riders are much closer together and many a time I have looked away expecting carnage - that actually very rarely happens. Its been somewhat spoilt by a promoter who thinks he knows better than an experienced track curator but SBA is still a brilliant little circuit. 

 

I like Lakeside and have said so many times.  Just because it is different does not mean it cannot be good. 

 

Its no coincidence that the best circuits in the country are purpose built speedway tracks (Belle Vue, Somerset, Scunthorpe and...…….. Plymouth). For many, though, its a question of shoehorning a track into a stadium whilst not damaging any of the other facilities. If speedway is reintroduced at Odsal, its a problem they will most certainly have. 

 

[Bagpuss]

Makes you wonder if that home defeat to Belle Vue prompted Somerset’s inside line approach to track prep. 

[Gavan]

16 hours ago, nw42 said:

Is it not possible for you to post without having a dig?  Loram v Louis was also good but "it was just 2 riders passing" after all. 

Why is it having a dig?

The heat 13 at Belle Vue was better than both races by quite a way as all 4 riders covered by a blanket and a guy from last to first in half a lap.

The Poole race of Havvy and Rempala was also very good but only involved 2 riders so in my view wasnt as good as the other night

I then remarked that the best 2 riders passing race was Loram v Louis.

Wasnt having a dig just my opinion......why are people so touchy

[Gavan]

So Somerset doctored their track to give them advantage and Poole fans moan....seriously lol.

Lets hope that the Poole boys set their bikes up for a tight inside line and Somerset dont doctor it.

Pooles track is the worst of the 4 teams left in for track prep and some fans have the audacity to complain about other teams.

[Buttons]

7 minutes ago, Gavan said:

So Somerset doctored their track to give them advantage and Poole fans moan....seriously lol.

Lets hope that the Poole boys set their bikes up for a tight inside line and Somerset dont doctor it.

Pooles track is the worst of the 4 teams left in for track prep and some fans have the audacity to complain about other teams.

You couldn't make it up could you,  all certain Poole posters do is moan about other teams,  as if they have the best race track in the uk !!!

Edited September 7, 2018 by Buttons

[Stoke Potter]

3 hours ago, Halifaxtiger said:

Somerset certainly wasn't doctored when I went to watch Belle Vue there the other week even though they had every reason to do it. In fact it was quite superb as this race proves :

 

 

I defy anyone not to be impressed, too.   

 

However, given that I saw both  and you did not, I am the only one of us qualified to give a judgement on any comparison.

 

Belle Vue was better but the one at Plymouth wasn't far behind and I'd point out that while you had the World Champion, a GP star and two of world's best young riders in one of the races in the other there were 2 riders who haven't even ridden Championship speedway, never mind Premiership. 

 

I am seriously suspecting you have never been to Plymouth, because no--one who has would ever use that word about the speedway there. For a start, because the track is much smaller the speeds seem faster. Secondly, you very rarely get the riders spaced out (Workington and Isle of Wight are two of my favourite destinations but that happens a lot at both places, simply because of the size) so the possibility of racing and the closeness of the riders is greater. Finally, the first turns are unlike anywhere else in the country. Because the run is so short, the riders are much closer together and many a time I have looked away expecting carnage - that actually very rarely happens. Its been somewhat spoilt by a promoter who thinks he knows better than an experienced track curator but SBA is still a brilliant little circuit. 

 

I like Lakeside and have said so many times.  Just because it is different does not mean it cannot be good. 

 

Its no coincidence that the best circuits in the country are purpose built speedway tracks (Belle Vue, Somerset, Scunthorpe and...…….. Plymouth). For many, though, its a question of shoehorning a track into a stadium whilst not damaging any of the other facilities. If speedway is reintroduced at Odsal, its a problem they will most certainly have. 

 

How does Plymouth compare to the last version of Weymouth in your opinion?

How you can compare Belle Vue with Scunthorpe, Somerset and Plymouth is just bizarre in my view.  

Interesting that many people on here are advocating more tracks to be like BV - please point me towards the thread where people are requesting more tracks like Plymouth.

The IoW is based on an old athletics track I believe, which makes it the wrong shape for Speedway.  I've been several times, never seen anything remotely close to what I've seen at BV on various occasions.  The IoW promotion are spoken about in very positive terms these days.  The true measure of them as a promotion is whether they invest in the track and get it remodelled to be a proper track.  Yes a copy of Belle Vue will do fine.  I actually think a BV track could be fitted in there.  Time will tell.

I regard Poole as one of the better shaped tracks in the country - it has been let down in recent years by having an extremely rough surface.  So bad last year that Hans Andersen had an off in the first bend which in my view was down to a rut that actually broke his rear spindle!  I'm surprised he didn't make more of it but perhaps he knew which side his bread was buttered so to speak. 

Matt Ford has gone down in my estimation by not keeping his track up to a decent standard then playing at fixing it last winter by getting, if I recall right, Glyn Taylor on the case.

Edited September 7, 2018 by Stoke Potter
Bad English!

[Starman2006]

7 hours ago, Daniel Smith said:

You just have to see recordings of races, no need to walk the track

 

Theres bumps and ruts in every track.  Nobody knows what our track is like unless you walk it.

[Starman2006]

8 hours ago, Bagpuss said:

 People don’t need to walk your track, any video of a race from Poole shows riders back wheels jumping around in the corners. Mr Shovlar recently added one from Wednesday night and good race though it was it clearly shows an uneven and bare (maybe with a blue groove?) inside line.

Nobody will ever convince me that a track with lumps, bumps and holes has been prepared in the best way. The smoother the better for me as it gives riders the ultimate confidence to throw their bikes at each other, just like Belle Vue the other night. Uneven tracks will make away riders tentative and play into home riders hands who know where the obstacles are.

Really, now you tell me how to prepare it then ? As i said, there 's bumps and ruts in every track. And dont ask me to elaborate, as i wont.. And yes, i do know how it should be prepared..

[Starman2006]

2 hours ago, Gavan said:

So Somerset doctored their track to give them advantage and Poole fans moan....seriously lol.

Lets hope that the Poole boys set their bikes up for a tight inside line and Somerset dont doctor it.

Pooles track is the worst of the 4 teams left in for track prep and some fans have the audacity to complain about other teams.

Havnt you got a national development league side to support..

[Bald Bloke]

22 hours ago, Stoke Potter said:

Yes really.  We've both discussed this before on here more than once.  It's about attracting the layman. 
I defy anybody not to be at least slightly impressed with that Heat 13 last night, the spectacle of the sheer speed combined with the close proximity of the riders is a sight to behold.  Fricke must've been nudging 70+mph at times in that race.
It's not quite the same watching 4 riders pootle round the Plymouth merry-go-round at 40-50mph tops, whether the lead changes several times or not.

You are a seasoned fan and can appreciate it, fair enough but no way can you say what you saw at Plymouth bettered or even matched that at Belle Vue last night.

Lakeside is an utterly dire trick-track, the same as Wolves and the rules should be changed so that no new track can be made like that.

Your right, 70 mph is about right for a fast track.. Batch has a video on his website of him hitting 68 mph at Lynn when he was practicing. And the track wasn't as grippy as it would be in a meeting I guess.

 

Edited September 7, 2018 by Bald Bloke

[Stoke Potter]

21 minutes ago, Starman2006 said:

Really, now you tell me how to prepare it then ? As i said, there 's bumps and ruts in every track. And dont ask me to elaborate, as i wont.. And yes, i do know how it should be prepared..

I'll tell you:
1.  Blade the whole lot off kerb to boards, not just the first 2 metres or whatever was done last winter, and get the whole base fixed.  Yes, big job. 

2. Put some decent material back on and more of it than you usually do so there are no blue groove/slick patches during the meeting.

3. Water it during the meeting so it's not a dust bowl, as it is far too often.

Where are the ruts on the Belle Vue bends?