Belle Vue v Somerset PL 5th September, 2018

[Phil The Ace]

25 minutes ago, Steve Shovlar said:

Hmmm. I thought it was an excellent race but to say it’s the best race in 38 years is ridiculous. Seen just as good or better races in the GP and Poland. The Darcy Ward GP race against Hancock and Gollob was better imo. Doyle made an error to allow Fricke to get him. However it was top notch no doubt about it.

 

I remember that ward race. Brilliant. Another one was him and Emil at new Zealand class. All 3 races mentioned are up there with the best ever. 

 

Regarding Doyle's mistake. Assume no one saw frickes mistake at same point as Doyle made his error. He also lifted and lost his speed 

[foreverblue]

34 minutes ago, Phil The Ace said:

I remember that ward race. Brilliant. Another one was him and Emil at new Zealand class. All 3 races mentioned are up there with the best ever. 

 

Regarding Doyle's mistake. Assume no one saw frickes mistake at same point as Doyle made his error. He also lifted and lost his speed 

Fricke not going  very well in Poland tonight. 

Edited September 9, 2018 by foreverblue

[Phil The Ace]

36 minutes ago, foreverblue said:

Fricke not going  very well in Poland tonight. 

Different league over there. It's like comparing Rita ora to Rita sullivan

[Aces51]

1 hour ago, Steve Shovlar said:

Hmmm. I thought it was an excellent race but to say it’s the best race in 38 years is ridiculous. Seen just as good or better races in the GP and Poland. The Darcy Ward GP race against Hancock and Gollob was better imo. Doyle made an error to allow Fricke to get him. However it was top notch no doubt about it.

 

Both good races, particularly the first, which was excellent but still didn't match heat 13. I've seen many brilliant races, particularly involving Collins and Morton at Hyde Road and including the Collins and Michanek KO Cup run off, which was regarded by many, including me, as the best race they had seen. It's a matter of opinion but for me heat 13 is now the best. Three riders you could throw a blanket over for four laps, passing and repassing and then the fourth rider coming from last to first on the last two bends to win.

[foreverblue]

58 minutes ago, Phil The Ace said:

Different league over there. It's like comparing Rita ora to Rita sullivan

He did beat Brady Kurtz in one race but not sure that is a great result these days. 

[SUPERACE]

4 minutes ago, foreverblue said:

He did beat Brady Kurtz in one race but not sure that is a great result these days. 

He beat Emil in the same race.  Only 3 riders in the meeting scored more and he was riding away also.  Did a good job tonight.  But either way has nothing to do with heat 13 on Wednesday.

[foreverblue]

37 minutes ago, SUPERACE said:

He beat Emil in the same race.  Only 3 riders in the meeting scored more and he was riding away also.  Did a good job tonight.  But either way has nothing to do with heat 13 on Wednesday.

Yes but Emil rides for the same team so the only opposition rider he beat was Kurtz. He is in good form though especially at Belle Vue.

[Aces51]

For what it matters Emil rides for the opposition and Max also beat Kołodziej.

[foreverblue]

1 hour ago, Aces51 said:

For what it matters Emil rides for the opposition and Max also beat Kołodziej.

Yes got that wrong Emil does ride for the opposition, Max did beat Kolodziej once and lost to him once.

[fatface]

18 hours ago, Steve Shovlar said:

Hmmm. I thought it was an excellent race but to say it’s the best race in 38 years is ridiculous. Seen just as good or better races in the GP and Poland. The Darcy Ward GP race against Hancock and Gollob was better imo. Doyle made an error to allow Fricke to get him. However it was top notch no doubt about it.

 

I see what you are doing.

Then again, Stevie Wonder can see what you are doing.

Dismissing others with extreme language like 'ridiculous!' and then scrabbling round for alternative arguments and seeing which one will stick. There were no bites for the Havelock-Rempala being better and now you're trying this one. Still no nibbles though.

I was lucky enough to be at Torun for that GP - that was the best race of a cracking night.  I was also lucky enough many years ago to see Les Collins go third to first on the last turn to win the opening race of the all-Scottish KO Cup Final...anyone else there for that one? But, I'll repeat, I have never seen a rider go from 4th to 1st on the last turn - I've yet to hear of anyone else who has either. And all preceded by passing and re-passing from the other three riders. Stunning stuff. 

If witnesses to the legendary Collins-Michanek KO Cup run-off in 1973 are saying this was even better than that, then that lends some hefty weight to the argument that it was the best race ever. Or if you want to pitch another Poole-related race into the mix, how's about this Chris Harris classic? ;-)

 

Edited September 10, 2018 by falcace

[Gavan]

So it appears we now cant see a great race unless a Poole rider is involved lol

[Sidney the robin]

1 hour ago, falcace said:

I see what you are doing.

Than again, Stevie Wonder can see what you are doing.

Dismissing others with extreme language like 'ridiculous!' and then scrabbling round for alternative arguments and seeing which one will stick. There were no bites for the Havelock-Rempala being better and now you're trying this one. Still no nibbles though.

I was lucky enough to be Torun for that GP - that was the best race of a cracking GP.  I was also lucky enough many years ago to see Les Collins go third to first on the last turn to win the opening race of the all-Scottish KO Cup Final...anyone else there for that one? But, I'll repeat, I have never seen a rider go from 4th to 1st on the last turn - I've yet to hear of anyone else who has either. And all preceded by passing and re-passing from the other three riders. Stunning stuff. 

If witnesses to the legendary Collins-Michanek KO Cup run-off in 1973 are saying this was even better than that, then that lends some hefty weight to the argument that it was the best race ever. Or if you want to pitch another Poole-related race into the mix, how's about this Chris Harris classic? ;-)

 

Falcace that race and the whole meeting was a treat last week i have watched it again twice since then.That race would be up there for me in  my four  favourite ever races the other three would be Gollob/Nilsen--  Morton/ Carter (Northern riders championship 1983. ) -  1973.Sheffield England v Sweden Collins. E.Boocock Michanek T.Jansson. race that race last week was awesome even my wife said so.

[Gavan]

Greatest races are subjective in the excitement they provide.

No doubt in my mind that heat 13 was the best race ive witnessed but it wasnt the most exciting as i have no affinity to any of the riders.

Most of the races that i found the most thrilling will almost always involve Mark Loram as we knew and watched him from an early 14 year old.

British Final run off 1997

Swedish Grand Prix 1999 final

Polish meeting 2001 v the Gollob brothers (its on you tube)

These will always be the races when i watch them now that make the hairs stand up on the back of my neck

Other races that ive seen that i like watching again is Joe Screen , also in Poland, splitting the team riding of Hamill and Swist (i think) and also the Goldbarre in Vojens in 1990 where Jan O Pedersen starts on the back row of 8 riders and misses the start so badly he is stone last then proceeds to overtake everyone..........not just journeyman riders, but Nielsen, Nilsen, Correy, Jonsson, Karger, Cross and Jorgensen...........watch it on you tube if you have never seen it

[fatface]

5 hours ago, Gavan said:

Greatest races are subjective in the excitement they provide.

No doubt in my mind that heat 13 was the best race ive witnessed but it wasnt the most exciting as i have no affinity to any of the riders.

Most of the races that i found the most thrilling will almost always involve Mark Loram as we knew and watched him from an early 14 year old.

British Final run off 1997

Swedish Grand Prix 1999 final

Polish meeting 2001 v the Gollob brothers (its on you tube)

These will always be the races when i watch them now that make the hairs stand up on the back of my neck

Other races that ive seen that i like watching again is Joe Screen , also in Poland, splitting the team riding of Hamill and Swist (i think) and also the Goldbarre in Vojens in 1990 where Jan O Pedersen starts on the back row of 8 riders and misses the start so badly he is stone last then proceeds to overtake everyone..........not just journeyman riders, but Nielsen, Nilsen, Correy, Jonsson, Karger, Cross and Jorgensen...........watch it on you tube if you have never seen it

Amen to that.

Naturally, we will all have an element of  bias to great races involving our particular favourites. Some more biased than others... 

There's a cracker of Chris Morton going 4th to 1st in a World Team Cup qualifier at King's Lynn that I never tire of watching. I love all those you have mentioned, although Loram v Gollob bros was a new one on me. Thank you. Anyway, we're probably moving into Years Gone By chat now...I must be getting on 

 

Edited September 10, 2018 by falcace

[acef]

It's very subjective. 

Imo that heat 13 was the best I've witnessed. I say that because all 4 riders were involved throughout the entire race. 

At any given point, any of them could have taken the lead. 

I'm also glad that Phil has highlighted that Max hit the same bit of dirt that Doyle did which also killed his momentum. Had fricke not hit that he would have passed sooner than he did. 

[acef]

Also cook was a real bulldog in that race. He got in the face of both Somerset riders which meant they had to ride defensive and that gave max the run and room he needed. 

[Halifaxtiger]

On ‎9‎/‎7‎/‎2018 at 6:07 PM, Stoke Potter said:

How does Plymouth compare to the last version of Weymouth in your opinion?

How you can compare Belle Vue with Scunthorpe, Somerset and Plymouth is just bizarre in my view.  

Interesting that many people on here are advocating more tracks to be like BV - please point me towards the thread where people are requesting more tracks like Plymouth.

The IoW is based on an old athletics track I believe, which makes it the wrong shape for Speedway.  I've been several times, never seen anything remotely close to what I've seen at BV on various occasions.  The IoW promotion are spoken about in very positive terms these days.  The true measure of them as a promotion is whether they invest in the track and get it remodelled to be a proper track.  Yes a copy of Belle Vue will do fine.  I actually think a BV track could be fitted in there.  Time will tell.

I regard Poole as one of the better shaped tracks in the country - it has been let down in recent years by having an extremely rough surface.  So bad last year that Hans Andersen had an off in the first bend which in my view was down to a rut that actually broke his rear spindle!  I'm surprised he didn't make more of it but perhaps he knew which side his bread was buttered so to speak. 

Matt Ford has gone down in my estimation by not keeping his track up to a decent standard then playing at fixing it last winter by getting, if I recall right, Glyn Taylor on the case.

Weymouth was very tight and very small but I saw some very good racing there. Not as good as Plymouth, but still good.

My point was - and remains - that custom built speedway tracks are better than those that are fitted into an existing stadium. Belle Vue is better than the others, but Scunthorpe and Somerset have established reputations for high quality racing, and Plymouth has always been one of my favourite tracks.

I am sure we all want more tracks like Belle Vue - I certainly do.  But your obsession with having all circuits like that is ridiculously impractical. Just where are Isle of Wight - and every other club in the country - supposed to get the funds to adapt their existing track or build a new one from ? In a sport that is in dire straits financially, that's simply not going to happen. 

Personally, I would say the true measure of a promotion is not simply the quality of the racing that their track puts on but far more about how successful the club is - on, but more importantly, off track.  After all,  if people are paying their entry money on the basis that the speedway is only part of the night out, what does it matter ?

Isle Of Wight's racing isn't as good as the NSS. But, in a straight comparison with the previous promotion, they have now increased average gates 5 fold and sponsorship has increased massively. They have attracted almost unanimous credit and praise from speedway fans from across the country for their attitude, enthusiasm and spirit. Finally, according to Barry Bishop they have broken even for the last two seasons.

Belle Vue, despite their superb race track, don't even come close to a record like that (to be fair, nor does anyone else). 

 

[Halifaxtiger]

7 hours ago, Fred Flange said:

Good luck to them I say but it would be interesting to see them cope with being told that they would have to race on a Monday night instead of Sunday afternoon or Saturday evening. 

Anyway, I've finally caught up with the recording and I have to say that was up there with the best I've seen at any Aces or Colts meeting at Belle Vue. Judging by some of the comments in this thread I wasn't expecting much from the first half of the meeting yet heat one was probably better than any league race I have seen on TV this season and obviously heat 13 was pretty good as well, lol. Shame about the crash but I'm pleased there was no loud cheer audible on the TV, with Chase the Ace's reaction representative of an intelligent speedway fans concern, rather than the sick cheering we hear at some tracks when a visiting rider falls off.

There's no question that Belle Vue's gates have been radically affected by racing on Mondays and I very much hope that changes for 2019.

I'd point out, though, that Isle of Wight race on Tuesdays and Thursdays  - not much different  to Mondays and Wednesdays. 

[waiheke1]

On 9/10/2018 at 3:01 PM, Sidney the robin said:

Falcace that race and the whole meeting was a treat last week i have watched it again twice since then.That race would be up there for me in  my four  favourite ever races the other three would be Gollob/Nilsen--  Morton/ Carter (Northern riders championship 1983. ) -  1973.Sheffield England v Sweden Collins. E.Boocock Michanek T.Jansson. race that race last week was awesome even my wife said so.

That Morton psss on Carter is superb. Thst 83 /meeting is arguably the best recorded at hyde rd? Most dont do it justice...

[Sidney the robin]

2 hours ago, waiheke1 said:

That Morton psss on Carter is superb. Thst 83 /meeting is arguably the best recorded at hyde rd? Most dont do it justice...

Great meeting  can remember Carter who looked quick never convinced on the night.  don't know why  Mort is Mort  dun him. Morton was quick did most  from  the back a very  good rider over a number of years and he was World class not doubt for me anyway.