Mark Posted August 25, 2018 Report Share Posted August 25, 2018 Dudek was wrongly penalised by the ref for a perfect start in the final Why not have a 2nd ref who watch the start replay iimediately and if necessary stop the race. It would mean the riders go a lap but we would get the correct decision. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Star Lady Posted August 25, 2018 Report Share Posted August 25, 2018 Why not just invest in transponders? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Posted August 25, 2018 Author Report Share Posted August 25, 2018 Costly maybe but it would work Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DSC67 Posted August 25, 2018 Report Share Posted August 25, 2018 Get rid of the tapes , green light start like other forms of motor sport Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Star Lady Posted August 25, 2018 Report Share Posted August 25, 2018 29 minutes ago, Mark said: Costly maybe but it would work Charge all the hangers on in the pits full admission and it would be paid for 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IainB Posted August 26, 2018 Report Share Posted August 26, 2018 12 hours ago, Mark said: Costly maybe but it would work these guys are millionaires! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AFCB Wildcat Posted August 26, 2018 Report Share Posted August 26, 2018 It seems to me that to much onus is on the referee. Could there not be a line judge a la tennis or linesman at football who could be knelt on the centre green looking along the start line? He could have a button that disabled the tapes from being released and puts the red light on if he sees movement and report the offender to the referee. If the referee has released the tapes before his button is pressed then it's a fair start. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DSC67 Posted August 26, 2018 Report Share Posted August 26, 2018 Bring back the two extra guys standing in between the riders at the start to watch for movement Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BangerBoy Posted August 27, 2018 Report Share Posted August 27, 2018 17 hours ago, AFCB Wildcat said: It seems to me that to much onus is on the referee. Could there not be a line judge a la tennis or linesman at football who could be knelt on the centre green looking along the start line? He could have a button that disabled the tapes from being released and puts the red light on if he sees movement and report the offender to the referee. If the referee has released the tapes before his button is pressed then it's a fair start. Think that's a bit over the top me thinks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Posted August 27, 2018 Author Report Share Posted August 27, 2018 17 hours ago, AFCB Wildcat said: It seems to me that to much onus is on the referee. Could there not be a line judge a la tennis or linesman at football who could be knelt on the centre green looking along the start line? He could have a button that disabled the tapes from being released and puts the red light on if he sees movement and report the offender to the referee. If the referee has released the tapes before his button is pressed then it's a fair start. Human eye gets it wrong in tennis & football, players appeal line calls and we have VAR in football. A quick re-run on TV for a 2nd referee would show if there is movement. Decision could be made probably before a lap is completed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
screm Posted August 27, 2018 Report Share Posted August 27, 2018 On 8/25/2018 at 8:46 PM, Mark said: Dudek was wrongly penalised by the ref for a perfect start in the final Why not have a 2nd ref who watch the start replay iimediately and if necessary stop the race. It would mean the riders go a lap but we would get the correct decision. By the time ref No2 has done his checks the race will be half over, in other motor sports when a driver/rider has jumped the start they get a time penalty, obviously that can`t happen in speedway. Maybe we could let the race go then exclude the rider after the race though I quite like the starting rule in SGP at present, though some riders seem to learn their lessons and get warned every GP. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OveFundinFan Posted August 27, 2018 Report Share Posted August 27, 2018 13 minutes ago, screm said: By the time ref No2 has done his checks the race will be half over, in other motor sports when a driver/rider has jumped the start they get a time penalty, obviously that can`t happen in speedway. Maybe we could let the race go then exclude the rider after the race though I quite like the starting rule in SGP at present, though some riders seem to learn their lessons and get warned every GP. but its not quiet right, Dudek last Saturday, Cookie the time before (and he needs all the help he can get). We are in the 21st century, the age of computers and electronics...…. is even the GP series so far behind the times and cant/wont progress forward? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shockster Posted August 27, 2018 Report Share Posted August 27, 2018 Just let the riders move or do what they want. if they touch the tapes, they're out. It's that simple to me. There would hardly be a restart. Can't see what's wrong with this method. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Posted August 27, 2018 Author Report Share Posted August 27, 2018 42 minutes ago, Shockster said: Just let the riders move or do what they want. if they touch the tapes, they're out. It's that simple to me. There would hardly be a restart. Can't see what's wrong with this method. guess more riders would go through the tapes with some anticipating the start. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OveFundinFan Posted August 27, 2018 Report Share Posted August 27, 2018 Letting riders move as much as they want, except touch the tapes, leaves rider on gate 2 and 3 very vulnerable to riders on 1 and 4 twitching hoping to get rider 2 and 3 moving and touching the tapes. That's a form of cheating. Riders in MotoGP, British Superbikes etc and Formula 1 etc all start from rest and don't have a tape, transponders. No good going back to you can do anything you want at the tapes, there was enough of that in the 70's/80's and Ivan was the master at it, but not only him. Would Ivan had won so many world championships if he had to stay still at the start? We don't know, and it doesn't matter, its whats done now. Especially in the world championship where a lot of money is at stake (for being world champ), extra appearance money, sponsors money, etc. And I want to see a winner who deserved to win. Technology is there, speedway needs a kick to the 21st century. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AFCB Wildcat Posted August 27, 2018 Report Share Posted August 27, 2018 7 hours ago, BangerBoy said: Think that's a bit over the top me thinks Okay, but how so? Movement is spotted and the tape release disabled. Surely that would prevent the delays associated with letting them go and then calling it back? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grand Central Posted August 27, 2018 Report Share Posted August 27, 2018 It would seem that the powers-that-be feel that one warning followed by an exclusion for a repeat offence is the right method to 'police' rider's behaviour at the start. This should be extended to 'policing' the bahaviour of referees. Two 'mistakes' or 'failures' and he is disqualified. Might add an extra element of excitement to the GP AND stop them being so hot on stopping races when riders have made good, legal starts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghostwalker Posted August 28, 2018 Report Share Posted August 28, 2018 (edited) 13 hours ago, Shockster said: Just let the riders move or do what they want. if they touch the tapes, they're out. It's that simple to me. There would hardly be a restart. Can't see what's wrong with this method. Name any other sport with a standing start where the athletes/drivers/Riders are allowed to anticipate the start? F1? No. WRC? No. Swimming? No Athletics? No MotoGP? No A standing start is about standing still and react to a start signal. It is not about chancing / anticipating the start. Transponders would solve this problem. You do allot of start testing and decide which reaction time should be the limit. This can the be monitored during the start and it would be easy to see if it is a good start or a chance start. Edited August 28, 2018 by Ghostwalker 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shockster Posted August 28, 2018 Report Share Posted August 28, 2018 10 hours ago, Ghostwalker said: Name any other sport with a standing start where the athletes/drivers/Riders are allowed to anticipate the start? F1? No. WRC? No. Swimming? No Athletics? No MotoGP? No A standing start is about standing still and react to a start signal. It is not about chancing / anticipating the start. Transponders would solve this problem. You do allot of start testing and decide which reaction time should be the limit. This can the be monitored during the start and it would be easy to see if it is a good start or a chance start. I agree about transponders, but can it be that easy for all tracks to have this technology? If it can then let's get rid of the tapes as there is no need for them if we can work off lights. As you say none of the sports you mention have tapes, so Speedway could resign them to history. TBH I just get sick of the restarts and letting riders move at the start may in some part equalise the bad gates. A bad draw in some GPs can spell the end of a riders chance and that can't be right either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Posted August 28, 2018 Author Report Share Posted August 28, 2018 54 minutes ago, Shockster said: I agree about transponders, but can it be that easy for all tracks to have this technology? If it can then let's get rid of the tapes as there is no need for them if we can work off lights. As you say none of the sports you mention have tapes, so Speedway could resign them to history. TBH I just get sick of the restarts and letting riders move at the start may in some part equalise the bad gates. A bad draw in some GPs can spell the end of a riders chance and that can't be right either. We need tapes. It's what the crowd look at and if a rider goes through them its a spectacle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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