Newcastle 2019

[Hammer48]

3 hours ago, NJC71 said:

Team previously looked solid without the top end power. Now looks strong at the top but with a long tail. 

Would have preferred the balance of this revised 7 had one of the bottom 4 had obvious scope for improvement. Fear this bottom end will struggle with Lambert & Wethers more suited to riding at reserve these days even in a slightly watered down league. 

 

Yes that's an interesting conundrum with no answer. Would Vic and Lunna combined have scored more points combined than Steve and Lambert ?

Any thoughts . . .?

[Hammer48]

1 hour ago, Yearbyred said:

Very strong top 3 now at the expense of a more balanced team but I think Diamonds will do pretty well given that Brough gives them a decent home advantage.

Like Redcar a lot will depend how the second strings back up the top end riders.

 

I can't help feeling that the reserves are more of a worry than the second strings. Every title winning side have strong reserves.

[GWC]

Diamonds now have 2 home based riders as opposed to the guys who would have incurred higher costs for accommodation and travel.

[Winditon]

3 hours ago, Hammer48 said:

Yes that's an interesting conundrum with no answer. Would Vic and Lunna combined have scored more points combined than Steve and Lambert ?

Any thoughts . . .?

I see your point and time will tell but one thing for sure is we will be stronger now in the crucial heats of 13 & 15.

[Yearbyred]

3 hours ago, Hammer48 said:

I can't help feeling that the reserves are more of a worry than the second strings. Every title winning side have strong reserves.

Poorly worded but I was including the reserves in my discussion of both teams.

 

 

[Tsunami]

I think Newcastle Diamonds have come out of this situation quite well. I know many people had doubts of certain team members, whilst others reassured us that our riders would be OK  once given the chance to get used to our technical track. What's happened has happened, but bringing in Stevie again has pleased everyone, and whilst I would have gone for MacDonald, Simon should be a useful addition especially away on the bigger tracks. Remember the chance that was given to Matty W last year, and how he overcome his lack of racing and in many meetings  proved to be as good as a heatleader.  If he can continue in the same vein next year, Simon adds a few points,  Max produces some winning rides and Danny beats his opposite numbers, I honestly think the team can go places injuries permitting. As others have said,  heat 13 and 15 could be tied up in our favour in both home and away meetings so as long as the rest chip in, we will do OK. Also Gems to win the NJL this year. 

Edited March 6, 2019 by Tsunami

[leander]

16 hours ago, enotian said:

And wasn't it JBA who trashed Stevie Worrall last season? Probably ruling out MBA who was clearly the best option. 

Anyway let's hope Simon Lambert goes even half as good as the last Diamond Lambert and remember with a lower points limit some of the opposition Lambert will face are far less experienced. Even starting in the top five he should be looking to increase his average.

Also is it clear what happens to the points limit once the new set of averages are in force?  Does it increase to 42.50?

Hope not, as it gives teams who reach revised GSA's first a distinct advantage of strengthening up before the others can. it should remain unchanged so that teams can only replace like for like as I can't see how any team is going to below the points limit by the first change, unless they have a totally desperate start with at least three or more riders failing to reach there starting average.  

[Fromafar]

40 minutes ago, leander said:

Hope not, as it gives teams who reach revised GSA's first a distinct advantage of strengthening up before the others can. it should remain unchanged so that teams can only replace like for like as I can't see how any team is going to below the points limit by the first change, unless they have a totally desperate start with at least three or more riders failing to reach there starting average.  

It’s time they done away with averages,and  had a broad banded Grading system,at least it would stop all this manipulation that’s going on at times.Rolling averages have helped but even they have their faults.

Edited March 6, 2019 by Fromafar

[Tsunami]

47 minutes ago, leander said:

Hope not, as it gives teams who reach revised GSA's first a distinct advantage of strengthening up before the others can. it should remain unchanged so that teams can only replace like for like as I can't see how any team is going to below the points limit by the first change, unless they have a totally desperate start with at least three or more riders failing to reach there starting average.  

I think that once the season starts,  The team strength will be adjusted to 42 points, that being the number of points possible for the purpose of averages with the 11% increase from 38. 

[Tsunami]

18 minutes ago, Fromafar said:

It’s time they done away with averages,and  had a broad banded Grading system,at least it would stop all this manipulation that’s going on at times.Rolling averages have helped but even they have their faults.

Generally though it is thought that grading systems create more difficulties and unfairness. Say a grade 6 to 7.5 was one being used, and you can have two riders within that band, one richer team is going to have 2 X 7.50  =15  and a poorer team is going to end up with 2 x 6 = 12. Someone already has a 3 points average on the lower team, and that could happen in each band. At least with averages they are definate and exact, and every team has the same opportunity to build to a common points level,  and the opportunity to build top end strength or all over strength which would be your choice. In grading, any team changes, presumably the current riders would be in the grade they have ridden into that year, and you could see situations when you have lost points in each grade, and still be locked in to the riders you signed in that grade.   

[Fromafar]

35 minutes ago, Tsunami said:

Generally though it is thought that grading systems create more difficulties and unfairness. Say a grade 6 to 7.5 was one being used, and you can have two riders within that band, one richer team is going to have 2 X 7.50  =15  and a poorer team is going to end up with 2 x 6 = 12. Someone already has a 3 points average on the lower team, and that could happen in each band. At least with averages they are definate and exact, and every team has the same opportunity to build to a common points level,  and the opportunity to build top end strength or all over strength which would be your choice. In grading, any team changes, presumably the current riders would be in the grade they have ridden into that year, and you could see situations when you have lost points in each grade, and still be locked in to the riders you signed in that grade.   

It’s the manipulation that goes on after the season start that bugs me,then from 3/4 way through the seaso riders are starting to prepare for the next season with their average. Richie Worrell being an example,after what I read a few weeks ago.

[gazzac]

1 hour ago, Fromafar said:

It’s time they done away with averages,and  had a broad banded Grading system,at least it would stop all this manipulation that’s going on at times.Rolling averages have helped but even they have their faults.

Was tried in the Elite league back in the early 2000's and dropped after a season being universally disliked as what Tsunami suggested did happen. No system is fair, unfortunately what we have is about as fair as it's going to be, it's the club/promotion manipulation of it that causes the most grief. 

Edited March 6, 2019 by gazzac

[TotallyHonestJohn]

Honestly

Grading with a blend of rolling averages was mooted the same time the 6 man team proposal was put forward a few year back and was reasonably well received by the management committee however when it was put to the promotions they didn't want the 6 man team proposal so the new rider assessment process was set aside and I think the whole thing has just been shelved after a great deal of interest... 

Heads in he sand as usual it was nearly as bad as Brexit

Regards 

THJ 

[Tsunami]

14 minutes ago, TotallyHonestJohn said:

Honestly

Grading with a blend of rolling averages was mooted the same time the 6 man team proposal was put forward a few year back and was reasonably well received by the management committee however when it was put to the promotions they didn't want the 6 man team proposal so the new rider assessment process was set aside and I think the whole thing has just been shelved after a great deal of interest... 

Heads in he sand as usual it was nearly as bad as Brexit

Regards 

THJ 

I think instead they tinkered with rolling averages, which evened out the scores and limited the extent and affect of average fiddling. Still happens of course.

[Hammer48]

4 hours ago, Winditon said:

I see your point and time will tell but one thing for sure is we will be stronger now in the crucial heats of 13 & 15.

Yes I fully agree and that's where the revised 1 to  7 might just benefit because those heats are right at the business end unless you're getting a good thumping of course

[Justgotmecpc]

1 hour ago, Fromafar said:

It’s the manipulation that goes on after the season start that bugs me,then from 3/4 way through the seaso riders are starting to prepare for the next season with their average. Richie Worrell being an example,after what I read a few weeks ago.

See your point and also agree about teams on the manipulation side of things.. but riders must think phew if I keep scoring big points like this & up my average by a point or 2 it could cost me a place next season which has happened to mason campton for example,,, he scores well all season probably his best for a while & the success of the team has left him on the sidelines which is very unfortunate for the rider and Workington speedway on shutting down,,

[Heedthebaw]

3 hours ago, Tsunami said:

I think that once the season starts,  The team strength will be adjusted to 42 points, that being the number of points possible for the purpose of averages with the 11% increase from 38. 

Absolutely no chance !

[Tsunami]

31 minutes ago, Heedthebaw said:

Absolutely no chance !

Interesting response. Care to explain how they are going to cope with the 11% increase in averages which will naturally increase from their start averages. The natural level playing field would tell you that all meetings this year are going to generate combined averages per teams with an 11% increase, i'e, 42points.  

[sparks123]

1 hour ago, Tsunami said:

Interesting response. Care to explain how they are going to cope with the 11% increase in averages which will naturally increase from their start averages. The natural level playing field would tell you that all meetings this year are going to generate combined averages per teams with an 11% increase, i'e, 42points.  

A couple of seasons ago when Berwick replaced Berge and Vissing in their side they could only build to 40 (points limit at the time).

It was around the time when Morris and Etheridge came into the side.  I said at the time that the teams that were right at the start of the season were getting stronger and the other teams struggled to catch up.

[Fromafar]

13 hours ago, pienpeesman said:

See your point and also agree about teams on the manipulation side of things.. but riders must think phew if I keep scoring big points like this & up my average by a point or 2 it could cost me a place next season which has happened to mason campton for example,,, he scores well all season probably his best for a while & the success of the team has left him on the sidelines which is very unfortunate for the rider and Workington speedway on shutting down,,

It’s only in Speedway where your punished for giving your all for your Team all season.It cannot be taken seriously as aProfessional Sport these days,like people say 4 guys 4 laps if your entertained fair  enough but we are not attracting many new fans .Will see how this season pans out .#hit

or Bust for a few Clubs season IMO.

Edited March 7, 2019 by Fromafar