tellboy Posted June 2, 2019 Report Share Posted June 2, 2019 7 hours ago, Crazy robin said: The big question is whether this was done before or after the new averages took affect. Don't make a great deal of difference really.A re-declaration before would have given you 4.5 to play with after 4.32. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveLyric2 Posted June 3, 2019 Report Share Posted June 3, 2019 15 hours ago, tellboy said: Don't make a great deal of difference really.A re-declaration before would have given you 4.5 to play with after 4.32. Ideal for Kasper Anderson then?! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crazy robin Posted June 3, 2019 Author Report Share Posted June 3, 2019 1 hour ago, Skidder1 said: Ideal for Kasper Anderson then?! Would rather have Paul Starke. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ovalman Posted June 3, 2019 Report Share Posted June 3, 2019 Good luck to Zach, hope to see you back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GWC Posted June 4, 2019 Report Share Posted June 4, 2019 The PL seems to have scant regard for riders it uses to ‘fill up their teams’ when averages dictate team strengths. Never sure what the league expects from these young reserves, they seem to take the brunt of criticism when it’s more experienced season riders not performing as they should who are the problem. I’m of the opinion that there should be some kind of ‘experience’ requirement in place to avoid young riders being put under pressure to score way before they have been consistently competitive in the league below. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crazy robin Posted June 4, 2019 Author Report Share Posted June 4, 2019 1 hour ago, GWC said: The PL seems to have scant regard for riders it uses to ‘fill up their teams’ when averages dictate team strengths. Never sure what the league expects from these young reserves, they seem to take the brunt of criticism when it’s more experienced season riders not performing as they should who are the problem. I’m of the opinion that there should be some kind of ‘experience’ requirement in place to avoid young riders being put under pressure to score way before they have been consistently competitive in the league below. Well said. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve0 Posted June 4, 2019 Report Share Posted June 4, 2019 3 hours ago, GWC said: The PL seems to have scant regard for riders it uses to ‘fill up their teams’ when averages dictate team strengths. Never sure what the league expects from these young reserves, they seem to take the brunt of criticism when it’s more experienced season riders not performing as they should who are the problem. I’m of the opinion that there should be some kind of ‘experience’ requirement in place to avoid young riders being put under pressure to score way before they have been consistently competitive in the league below. Are we talking about all teams or Swindon? Zach was making progress (not major progress) over the years he was at Swindon. He has had a nightmare start to this season in both leagues and is taking time away - so not really down to Swindon having scant regard for Zach and last year Jack Smith was in the team until the end of the season. It’s not just reserves though - look st the number of riders Poole had last year! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LesR Posted June 4, 2019 Report Share Posted June 4, 2019 I think that both Zach and James Shanes, while both having progressed to a certain extent, have suffered by riding grasstrack / longtrack and speedway at a young age. They are desciplines that are apart in riding technique. Years ago many very good speedway riders could be seen in Germany, every Sunday, winning and doing very well in longtrack / grasstrack meetings, but only after they had established themselves as very good speedway riders. Wiggy told me it took at least 3 years to master Longtrack. Yet at the same time very good grasstrack riders were riding in the second halfs at speedway and not turning out to be the next great speedway rider, with a few exceptions. Many have said it takes a couple of races to get back to riding a speedway track after competing at grasstrack / longtrack. If you're good on the grass/longtrack on the continent it's hard to let go of the money to improve your speedway. How many true longtrack riders have won the World Speedway Championship? How many true Speedway riders have won the World Longtrack Championship? Just my thoughts. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sidney the robin Posted June 4, 2019 Report Share Posted June 4, 2019 Be interesting to see if Ellis is out with his shoulder injury if young Anders Rowe gets a chance.Maybe he won't every point is vital and King's Lynn are a dangerous team just hope it is not a James Sarjeant type of guest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
89buttons Posted June 4, 2019 Report Share Posted June 4, 2019 5 hours ago, GWC said: The PL seems to have scant regard for riders it uses to ‘fill up their teams’ when averages dictate team strengths. Never sure what the league expects from these young reserves, they seem to take the brunt of criticism when it’s more experienced season riders not performing as they should who are the problem. I’m of the opinion that there should be some kind of ‘experience’ requirement in place to avoid young riders being put under pressure to score way before they have been consistently competitive in the league below. I agree its no good for the young lads confidence riding top flight before they’re ready. Is it not the point of the rule they brought in this season that to ride in the top flight you must have achieved at least a 4.5 average in the championship first - stopping drew kemp for example from being eligible for a top flight spot before gaining further experience. obviously the likes of zach and Shanes have done this but still seem far out of their depth at the top level so perhaps it needs to be even higher? It’s a tough one as others progress much quicker - Dan Bewley for example. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poolebolton Posted June 5, 2019 Report Share Posted June 5, 2019 It’s a hard one. You look back at the EDR days and how many of those guys have really kicked on. Wright has been the best but quite some distance and Ellis. The 2 best EDR riders at the time were Newman and Garrity but they seem to have stagnated due to a host of reasons. Why a squad system should be in place. 10 man squads. Pick a 7 man team and then 1 back up for Heat leader, 2nd String and Reserve. Could have given Zach a month off and see how he feels. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grachan Posted June 5, 2019 Report Share Posted June 5, 2019 10 hours ago, 89buttons said: I agree its no good for the young lads confidence riding top flight before they’re ready. Is it not the point of the rule they brought in this season that to ride in the top flight you must have achieved at least a 4.5 average in the championship first - stopping drew kemp for example from being eligible for a top flight spot before gaining further experience. obviously the likes of zach and Shanes have done this but still seem far out of their depth at the top level so perhaps it needs to be even higher? It’s a tough one as others progress much quicker - Dan Bewley for example. I don't agree it needs to be higher. In fact, I'd go as far as to say that this rule was part of the reason Zach and James struggled. Whatever happened, they were going to be the lowest average riders in the league. In the past, other sides might have had 2 or 3 pointers in at reserve with whom they were on a par or better than. Instead they were always going to be the weakest riders in the league and every other side had reserves of a much higher standard. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikebv Posted June 5, 2019 Report Share Posted June 5, 2019 (edited) 17 hours ago, GWC said: The PL seems to have scant regard for riders it uses to ‘fill up their teams’ when averages dictate team strengths. Never sure what the league expects from these young reserves, they seem to take the brunt of criticism when it’s more experienced season riders not performing as they should who are the problem. I’m of the opinion that there should be some kind of ‘experience’ requirement in place to avoid young riders being put under pressure to score way before they have been consistently competitive in the league below. Correct.. There should be some clear demarcation between every league. (If they want to keep three leagues going forward?) You improve and become the best at that level then you move up.. You go backwards and can't compete then you drop down a level.. A natural order of things.. If you look at the top fives in the PL then all are pretty similar standards wise, (and have been for donkeys years), therefore why not run with five man teams until enough riders are available to ride at that level and add another if it suits... The Premiership should be the aspirational level.. The Championship the one that holds those who still wish to climb to the top step, or are happy with their lot. And the NL the breeding ground for new talent, of any age.. Running with five men per team will hopefully lead to excess riders too which puts pressure on those holding the positions which can never be a bad thing. And it will also keep salaries in check as well as providing injury cover credibly.. Still let riders double or treble up as their ability allows until enough riders fill the teams. Ensure no clashes of fixtures but the higher league will have priority if it happens unavoidably.. The UK seems to have a much better pathway now for young riders to progress. Be a shame if they are just thrown in at the deep end before they are ready without any support if they struggle to swim.. Edited June 5, 2019 by mikebv 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
89buttons Posted June 5, 2019 Report Share Posted June 5, 2019 3 hours ago, Grachan said: I don't agree it needs to be higher. In fact, I'd go as far as to say that this rule was part of the reason Zach and James struggled. Whatever happened, they were going to be the lowest average riders in the league. In the past, other sides might have had 2 or 3 pointers in at reserve with whom they were on a par or better than. Instead they were always going to be the weakest riders in the league and every other side had reserves of a much higher standard. Fair point, I guess the problem is predominately on Swindon this year then as they chose to build their team top heavy with distinctly weaker reserves - tough on those boys racing their socks off week in week out for little return. cant blame other sides for choosing strength in depth - and to be fair much of our success at Ipswich thus far this season has been due to the strong reserve pairing. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GWC Posted June 5, 2019 Report Share Posted June 5, 2019 If the PL expands next season with CL clubs then it will need even more young riders to fill places in what will be a much weaker league. All clubs will need to promote riders from the NL as well so it will be either hailed as a revolutionary saviour to the sport or the final death throw of a great sport. The alternative is carry on as we are with probably an even smaller PL then not needing the inexperienced riders. No doubt cost implications will dictate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sings4Speedway Posted June 5, 2019 Report Share Posted June 5, 2019 56 minutes ago, 89buttons said: Fair point, I guess the problem is predominately on Swindon this year then as they chose to build their team top heavy with distinctly weaker reserves - tough on those boys racing their socks off week in week out for little return. cant blame other sides for choosing strength in depth - and to be fair much of our success at Ipswich thus far this season has been due to the strong reserve pairing. Spot on. If there is an issue anywhere its the way promotions have chosen to build the teams. Rather than raising the overall limit the lowest required average should be higher. That would mean the top averaged riders in each team would be lower and the gap between reserve and heat leaders would be closer and therefore the racing would be closer. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Weasel Posted June 5, 2019 Report Share Posted June 5, 2019 (edited) 10 hours ago, poolebolton said: It’s a hard one. You look back at the EDR days and how many of those guys have really kicked on. Wright has been the best but quite some distance and Ellis. The 2 best EDR riders at the time were Newman and Garrity but they seem to have stagnated due to a host of reasons. Think you're forgetting about a certain Mr Worrall currently plying his trade at the National Stadium who for me was the main beneficiary of the system, started the season at #13 on the list and finished at #5, as a Swindon fan I had the pleasure of watching the improvement in him and it was vast, before breaking his leg last season he was a 3rd HL in the Premiership and had represented Team GB and deservedly so. Edited June 5, 2019 by The Weasel 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poolebolton Posted June 6, 2019 Report Share Posted June 6, 2019 9 hours ago, The Weasel said: Think you're forgetting about a certain Mr Worrall currently plying his trade at the National Stadium who for me was the main beneficiary of the system, started the season at #13 on the list and finished at #5, as a Swindon fan I had the pleasure of watching the improvement in him and it was vast, before breaking his leg last season he was a 3rd HL in the Premiership and had represented Team GB and deservedly so. Looking at the scores Wright is ahead of worrall. But yes Worrall is a close 2nd. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sidney the robin Posted June 6, 2019 Report Share Posted June 6, 2019 2 hours ago, poolebolton said: Looking at the scores Wright is ahead of worrall. But yes Worrall is a close 2nd. Loved Steve's time as a Robin and Wrighty ,would have both back at Swindon like a shot in the future at some stage.I. think Stevie is getting there with his form be great if he could get back to the level of his WTC form of a couple of years ago.. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poolebolton Posted June 6, 2019 Report Share Posted June 6, 2019 3 hours ago, Sidney the robin said: Loved Steve's time as a Robin and Wrighty ,would have both back at Swindon like a shot in the future at some stage.I. think Stevie is getting there with his form be great if he could get back to the level of his WTC form of a couple of years ago.. They need international experience. Need to go and ride in Poland and Sweden. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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